48 yrs ago - destroy everything in the village that was "walking, crawling or growing

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billy.pilgrim
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Re: 48 yrs ago - destroy everything in the village that was "walking, crawling or growing

Unread post by billy.pilgrim » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:54 pm

Leo Lyons wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:49 pm
billy.pilgrim wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:24 pm
Occasionally we find out
Hey billy.pilgrim; I'm just being curious. I've been following the comments on this very interesting thread since you started it, and I'm just curious as to your interest in the My Lai events and Lt. Calley, and why you keep the subject of it alive. Did you have relatives involved? Were you directly or indirectly involved?

sorry I took so long, been busy and watching basketball.

what about you, no one close involved seems hard to believe.

I'm just doing my best, here and there, to keep some truth, in one of those major pivotal teachable moments in our history, alive before the Howard (Fox) Campbell, Jr. rewrite blinds the right.
Also, to poke at all those vets out there who still lie to their kids and grandkids about how they were spit on (Johnny at lnf heard it from his dad or uncle) or the all too common (my stalker Hugh from upstate or possibly here was one of these) I volunteered to go to Viet Nam but they stationed me in Italy or Germany or wherever because they needed my special skill.

The protest was never against the troops. The protest was against the government sponsoring this war, it was against the military establishment and the companies and people who profited from the war, but because more people didn’t keep hammering with the truth and what it could have taught us about the idiocy of imposing power over people who wanted freedom, we now have forever wars and a population being taught to bow to the military.

My Lai is only a representative of the hundreds of similar atrocities, but My Lai slipped past the cover-up and was huge in exposing the truth.

The only spitting on vets came from the right and was directed at protesting vets by right-wingers, but people who can be tricked into believing that FDR caused the Great Depression, can be convinced to shut down anything and to support anything. All protest is un-American, and all disagreement is a sign of disloyalty. Follow the Leader.

I’m not sure how anyone who was draft age in the 60s isn’t connected. For the millions who died, for the elderly and children who died horrible deaths, for the fighters who spent a lifetime trying to rid their country of Colonial rule, for those on all sides – from the ones who were caught up in their particular side’s slogan filled speeches glorifying war to those who followed the law when called, for those who lost friends and family and those who endured prison or had to leave the country, for and even for the physical scars to the country, I think a truthful understanding of Viet Nam would serve to make us better in the present.

Its’ not that we haven’t destroyed country after country in the name of profit (oppression), but Viet Nam exposed how easy it is to gin up a little fear and turn it into huge profits for our own increasingly smaller ruling class and their brand-new mercenary military.
Without people remembering history, you end up with crap history and lies about fighting for freedom, rather than the reality of abandoning allies, supporting Colonial oppression and violating treaties. It’s easy to see that we were the bad guys in Viet Nam and for a while it looked as if we wanted to learn a lesson. Now the story of Viet Nam, sanitized by the forever right-wing rewrite, is a lesson about blindly supporting violence and oppression.




“All men are created equal. They are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, among them are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
This immortal statement was made in the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America in 1776. In a broader sense this means: All the peoples on the earth are equal from birth, all the peoples have a right to live, to be happy and free."
Guess who
George Carlin said “The owners know the truth. It’s called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.”

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neoplacebo
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Re: 48 yrs ago - destroy everything in the village that was "walking, crawling or growing

Unread post by neoplacebo » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:40 pm

The inherent hypocrisy in the Declaration of Independence was never mentioned in my civics classes in school. The document excluded everybody but white male property owners as holders of those unalienable rights. maga

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Re: 48 yrs ago - destroy everything in the village that was "walking, crawling or growing

Unread post by billy.pilgrim » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:58 pm

neoplacebo wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:40 pm
The inherent hypocrisy in the Declaration of Independence was never mentioned in my civics classes in school. The document excluded everybody but white male property owners as holders of those unalienable rights. maga
Different quote
George Carlin said “The owners know the truth. It’s called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.”

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Re: 48 yrs ago - destroy everything in the village that was "walking, crawling or growing

Unread post by billy.pilgrim » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:15 pm

https://notevenpast.org/kill-anything-t ... urse-2013/



"Murder, rape, abuse, arson, arrest, imprisonment, and torture were, in Turse’s words, a “daily fact of life throughout the years of the American presence in Vietnam” (6). More than this, they were carried out on orders issued from the uppermost echelons of the American army. They were “the inevitable outcome of deliberate policies, dictated at the highest level of the military” (6). The outcome? The statistics Turse assembles almost speak for themselves: 58,000 American, 254,000 South Vietnamese, and 1.7 North Vietnamese soldiers dead; 65,000 North Vietnamese and 3.8 million South Vietnamese civilians dead. And these are conservative estimates. Add to that 5.3 million wounded civilians, eleven million refugees, and as many as four million exposed to toxic herbicides like Agent Orange. “[A]ll wars are fought twice, the first time on the battlefield, the second time in memory,” Viet Thanh Nguyen has written in a different context.[1] With Kill Anything, Turse plunges into the fray of this second war, taking aim at staid diplomatic histories that fail to take stock of the purposeful barbarity of the American military’s actions in Vietnam."
George Carlin said “The owners know the truth. It’s called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.”

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Leo Lyons
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Re: 48 yrs ago - destroy everything in the village that was "walking, crawling or growing

Unread post by Leo Lyons » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:07 pm

billy.pilgrim wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:54 pm
Leo Lyons wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:49 pm
Hey billy.pilgrim; I'm just being curious. I've been following the comments on this very interesting thread since you started it, and I'm just curious as to your interest in the My Lai events and Lt. Calley, and why you keep the subject of it alive. Did you have relatives involved? Were you directly or indirectly involved?
sorry I took so long, been busy and watching basketball.
Sorry I took so long myself. Between hospitalization, moving around, and setting up a new mobile laptop, I've been off the grid

what about you, no one close involved; seems hard to believe.
I inserted punctuation so I could figure this line out; I think I got it right. Yes, I had some family involved in the Vietnam conflict, but none in the My Lai incident; that I know of.

I'm just doing my best, here and there, to keep some truth, in one of those major pivotal teachable moments in our history, alive before the Howard (Fox) Campbell, Jr. rewrite blinds the right.
I don't watch any of the news propaganda shows. I watch local AM & PM local news and that's it. I doubt there's many people who know what The My Lai incident is. If it's not a smartphone or laptop app, they've no clue.

Also, to poke at all those vets out there who still lie to their kids and grandkids about how they were spit on (Johnny at lnf heard it from his dad or uncle) or the all too common (my stalker Hugh from upstate or possibly here was one of these) I volunteered to go to Viet Nam but they stationed me in Italy or Germany or wherever because they needed my special skill.
There was spitting. And cursing. And name calling. I saw it when I went with relatives to pick up returning relatives. As to locations and dates, I'll keep that to myself for personal reasons.

The protest was never against the troops. The protest was against the government sponsoring this war, it was against the military establishment and the companies and people who profited from the war, but because more people didn’t keep hammering with the truth and what it could have taught us about the idiocy of imposing power over people who wanted freedom, we now have forever wars and a population being taught to bow to the military. My Lai is only a representative of the hundreds of similar atrocities, but My Lai slipped past the cover-up and was huge in exposing the truth.
The only spitting on vets came from the right and was directed at protesting vets by right-wingers, but people who can be tricked into believing that FDR caused the Great Depression, can be convinced to shut down anything and to support anything. All protest is un-American, and all disagreement is a sign of disloyalty. Follow the Leader.
We didn't stick around long enough to ask political opinions.

I’m not sure how anyone who was draft age in the 60s isn’t connected. For the millions who died, for the elderly and children who died horrible deaths, for the fighters who spent a lifetime trying to rid their country of Colonial rule, for those on all sides – from the ones who were caught up in their particular side’s slogan filled speeches glorifying war to those who followed the law when called, for those who lost friends and family and those who endured prison or had to leave the country, for and even for the physical scars to the country, I think a truthful understanding of Viet Nam would serve to make us better in the present.

Its’ not that we haven’t destroyed country after country in the name of profit (oppression), but Viet Nam exposed how easy it is to gin up a little fear and turn it into huge profits for our own increasingly smaller ruling class and their brand-new mercenary military.
Without people remembering history, you end up with crap history and lies about fighting for freedom, rather than the reality of abandoning allies, supporting Colonial oppression and violating treaties. It’s easy to see that we were the bad guys in Viet Nam and for a while it looked as if we wanted to learn a lesson. Now the story of Viet Nam, sanitized by the forever right-wing rewrite, is a lesson about blindly supporting violence and oppression.

Regardless how each of us as an individual felt about Vietnam, whether it was right or wrong, it happened; it's history along with the atrocities, murders, rapes, and pillaging; the same actions as has occurred in the many, many human conflicts throughout the entire history of man's existence on this earth. As long as man, a greedy creature, has a desire to dominate others or take possession of other's belongings, the fighting will continue to happen. Although I'm not a religious person, I have to say that's the result of man's sinful nature.

“All men are created equal. They are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, among them are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
This immortal statement was made in the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America in 1776. In a broader sense this means: All the peoples on the earth are equal from birth, all the peoples have a right to live, to be happy and free.
Guess who
Thomas Jefferson; but he only reiterated the rights afforded us by our Creator. The greedy man chooses his own path.
Thanks for sharing these thoughts, but I'll ask again: "Did you have relatives involved? Were you directly or indirectly involved?"

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Vrede too
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Re: 15 yrs ago - destroy everything in the city

Unread post by Vrede too » Mon May 06, 2019 12:11 pm

Fallujah Forgotten

Insert current POTUS here:

Image
Speaking of Rudy, WTF?

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Re: 48 yrs ago - destroy everything in the village that was "walking, crawling or growing

Unread post by billy.pilgrim » Mon May 06, 2019 2:52 pm

. For Leo



"On September 2, 1945, Ho Chi Minh proclaimed the independent Democratic Republic of Vietnam in Hanoi’s Ba Dinh square. The first lines of his speech repeated verbatim the famous second paragraph of America’s 1776 Declaration of Independence.

All men are created equal. They are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, among them are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."

This immortal statement was made in the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America in 1776. In a broader sense, this means: All the peoples on the earth are equal from birth, all the peoples have a right to live, to be happy and free.

The Declaration of the French Revolution made in 1791 on the Rights of Man and the Citizen also states: “All men are born free and with equal rights, and must always remain free and have equal rights.”

Those are undeniable truths ..."


The rest of what our friend and WWll Allie wrote here

http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5139/
George Carlin said “The owners know the truth. It’s called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.”

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Re: 15 yrs ago - destroy everything in the city

Unread post by billy.pilgrim » Mon May 06, 2019 3:02 pm

Vrede too wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 12:11 pm
Fallujah Forgotten

Insert current POTUS here:

Image
Fallujah is exactly why we should have discussed the real Vietnam war.
George Carlin said “The owners know the truth. It’s called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.”

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Re: 15 yrs ago - destroy everything in the city

Unread post by Vrede too » Mon May 06, 2019 3:15 pm

billy.pilgrim wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 3:02 pm
Fallujah is exactly why we should have discussed the real Vietnam war.
;)
Speaking of Rudy, WTF?

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Re: 48 yrs ago - destroy everything in the village that was "walking, crawling or growing

Unread post by neoplacebo » Mon May 06, 2019 3:50 pm

The American public could not care less because the American public in general is not furnishing the soldiers anymore; since the draft ended fifty some years ago, the biggest part of military manpower, other than the Service Academy graduates, is lower socioeconomic in demographics. I for one think the draft should be reinstated; I think it's an equitable thing. Of course, even with the draft, folks like Clinton and trump and others will slink out of any service. After all, our idol, Israel, has mandatory military service for all young folks. They have to create as many enemies for us as possible so our poor soldiers can come save them and blast somebody in retribution. But, back on topic, the Vietnam war achieved massive resistance BECAUSE it affected just about everybody; it ain't like that these days. Our country's wars are now perceived by most Americans in the same way as automobile accidents to other people are perceived; it doesn't concern them. They don't know what they're missing.

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Re: 15 yrs ago - destroy everything in the city

Unread post by Vrede too » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:42 pm

http://www.blueridgedebate.com/forum/vi ... ble#p96644
Vrede too wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 10:12 am
‘Terrible Idea’: Senators Slam Trump Plan To Pardon Vets Accused Of War Crimes
Sen. Mitt Romney said it would be “unthinkable” to pardon service members who were “legitimately convicted of committing war crimes.”


Also appalled:
Sen. Joni Ernst (R-Iowa), lieutenant colonel in the Iowa National Guard, Iraq War veteran
U.S. Army Gen. retired Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under President Barack Obama
Sen. Tammy Duckworth (D-Ill.), Illinois Army National Guard Major, Iraq war double amputee after the UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter she was co-piloting was hit by a rocket-propelled grenade fired by Iraqi insurgents

The dishonorable, lifelong cowardly Chickenhawk in Chief plans to abet dishonorable, cowardly war criminals.
billy.pilgrim wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 3:02 pm
Vrede too wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 12:11 pm
Fallujah Forgotten
Fallujah is exactly why we should have discussed the real Vietnam war.
GOP congressman, defending accused war criminal, says his unit 'killed probably hundreds of civilians' in Iraq combat

California Republican Rep. Duncan Hunter, defending a Navy SEAL accused of war crimes in Iraq, said his own unit "killed probably hundreds of civilians," unintentionally, during his 2004 tour as a Marine field artillery officer in Fallujah, Iraq.

In an interview with Barstool Sports' Zero Blog Thirty podcast, Hunter explained his support of Navy SEAL Special Operations Chief Edward Gallagher, who has been accused of war crimes and is being considered for pardon by President Trump.

"I was an artillery officer, and we fired hundreds of rounds into Fallujah, killed probably hundreds of civilians, if not scores, if not hundreds of civilians," Hunter said. "Probably killed women and children, if there were any left in the city when we invaded. So do I get judged too?"

... Gallagher faces a premeditated-murder charge for the stabbing death in 2017 of a teenage ISIS fighter who was brought in for medical treatment. Gallagher allegedly posed for a picture with the prisoner’s body. “I frankly don't care if he was killed, I just don't care," Hunter said about the ISIS fighter. He added: "Even if everything that the prosecutors say is true in this case, then, you know, Eddie Gallagher should still be given a break, I think."

Last week, Hunter defended Gallagher, who was turned in by members of his unit, while speaking at a town hall meeting in Ramona, Calif. The congressman, who is facing trial on federal corruption charges after allegedly misusing over $250,000 of federal campaign funds for personal use, said he’s “done the exact same thing” as Gallagher, taking photos of people he presumably captured or killed while at war....
Nothing to see here, just a corrupt, dishonorable, cowardly, admitted war criminal making excuses for a denying, dishonorable, cowardly war criminal that may soon be pardoned by the lifelong cowardly, dishonorable Chickenhawk in Chief.
Speaking of Rudy, WTF?

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