Hillary

Generally an unmoderated forum for discussion of pretty much any topic. The focus however, is usually politics.
Post Reply
User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 50668
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Hillary

Unread post by Vrede too »

Might as well give Hillary her own thread, one that we can keep going for 4 or 8 years.

No joke: Hillary Clinton is considering Al Franken for VP. Does he have a chance?

Unlikely according to the article and my own guess, but it sure would be a great way to stick it to Trump and the GOP.
Always be yourself! Unless you can be a goat, then always be a goat.
-- the interweb, paraphrased
1312. ETTD.

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 50668
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: Hillary

Unread post by Vrede too »

So, I've done my share of beating up on Hillary, but she also has a wealth of experience and positive attributes. We're all gonna get in debates about her over the next few months, so let's list what they are besides 'She's better than Trump (or any other Republican)' - perhaps the most important thing, but a pretty low bar to set.

Tried to get us single payer healthcare 25 years ago, and took a truckload of unwarranted personal heat for it.
Always be yourself! Unless you can be a goat, then always be a goat.
-- the interweb, paraphrased
1312. ETTD.

User avatar
rstrong
Captain
Posts: 5889
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:32 am
Location: Winnipeg, MB

Re: Hillary

Unread post by rstrong »

Washington Outsider

(OK, of course not. Except in a world where Newt Gingrich ran as a "Washington Outsider" in 2012 and Ted Cruz ran as a "Washington Outsider" in 2016.)

User avatar
neoplacebo
Admiral of the Fleet
Posts: 11886
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:42 pm
Location: Kingsport TN

Re: Hillary

Unread post by neoplacebo »

Once having left Arkansas she never went back.

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 50668
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: Hillary

Unread post by Vrede too »

Is that a positive for her or for Arkansas? :P
Always be yourself! Unless you can be a goat, then always be a goat.
-- the interweb, paraphrased
1312. ETTD.

User avatar
neoplacebo
Admiral of the Fleet
Posts: 11886
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:42 pm
Location: Kingsport TN

Re: Hillary

Unread post by neoplacebo »

Vrede too wrote:Is that a positive for her or for Arkansas? :P
Heh, probably a win - win situation, my hominy.

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 50668
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: Hillary

Unread post by Vrede too »

Dang, she's that good. ;)
Always be yourself! Unless you can be a goat, then always be a goat.
-- the interweb, paraphrased
1312. ETTD.

User avatar
O Really
Admiral
Posts: 21330
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Re: Hillary

Unread post by O Really »

Hillary has the most directly applicable professional experience of most any other Presidential candidate, ever. And in all those jobs, she has done a competent job. Made some errors, sure - who hasn't. But what has been portrayed as "awful" is pretty much made up of wild exaggerations or outright lies. Sure, it might not have been a good idea to use a personal server, but it wouldn't have worked out too well to have every one of her emails accessible to Republican witch hunters, either.

Dems need to quit playing defense on the Republican's field and start more of the positive. And they need to disabuse this ridiculous idea that what is needed is a "non politician" "outsider." When private industry companies talk about "bringing in an outsider" they just mean somebody from another company - not somebody who is a complete amateur. Getting things done in government is dependent on knowing people - personally or professionally. Building relationships and bridges. Hillary understands that. I wish she was as good at it as Bill, but still.

User avatar
O Really
Admiral
Posts: 21330
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Re: Hillary

Unread post by O Really »

Reuters: Clinton unfavorables down slightly; Trump's up slightly; total 13 point spread.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-e ... picks=true

Other polls have showed some are still mad at her about the damn emails, but there are good signs of blowover.

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 50668
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: Hillary

Unread post by Vrede too »

O Really wrote:... but there are good signs of blowover.
Wanna rephrase that re a Clinton?
Always be yourself! Unless you can be a goat, then always be a goat.
-- the interweb, paraphrased
1312. ETTD.

User avatar
O Really
Admiral
Posts: 21330
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Re: Hillary

Unread post by O Really »

Vrede too wrote:
O Really wrote:... but there are good signs of blowover.
Wanna rephrase that re a Clinton?
:lol: :lol:

Seth Milner
Lieutenant Commander
Posts: 2334
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:52 pm
Location: Somewhere on Lake Keowee, SC

Re: Hillary

Unread post by Seth Milner »

Image
Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 50668
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: Hillary

Unread post by Vrede too »

So far, understanding that we'll never be unanimous on each item, the list includes:

She's better than Trump (or any other Republican).
Tried to get us single payer healthcare 25 years ago, and took a truckload of unwarranted personal heat for it.
Once having left Arkansas she never went back.
Hillary has the most directly applicable professional experience of most any other Presidential candidate, ever. And in all those jobs, she has done a competent job.
Building relationships and bridges. Hillary understands that.

Hillary Clinton Pledges Constitutional Amendment To Overturn Citizens United In Her First 30 Days
The amendment is part of a series of proposals to increase transparency in campaign funding.


... Clinton has also pledged to issue an executive order to require government contractors to disclose campaign contributions, and has said she would push the Securities and Exchange Commission to require all publicly traded companies to disclose political contributions to their stockholders....
:-||

Might even succeed. At least at the POTUS level Citizens United has hurt the GOP much more than it has the Dems - otherwise failed Republicans staying in too long, thus damaging Mitten and then dividing the field so that Trump could win.

Republicans might also go for government contractors disclosure, given their distaste for government.

Publicly traded companies disclosure may be a tougher sell with the GOP. They hate corporate transparency.
Always be yourself! Unless you can be a goat, then always be a goat.
-- the interweb, paraphrased
1312. ETTD.

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 50668
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: Hillary

Unread post by Vrede too »

Speaking of logos -

Image

It points to the right.
Always be yourself! Unless you can be a goat, then always be a goat.
-- the interweb, paraphrased
1312. ETTD.

User avatar
bannination
Captain
Posts: 5502
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:58 am
Location: Hendersonville
Contact:

Re: Hillary

Unread post by bannination »

O Really wrote:Hillary has the most directly applicable professional experience of most any other Presidential candidate, ever. And in all those jobs, she has done a competent job. Made some errors, sure - who hasn't. But what has been portrayed as "awful" is pretty much made up of wild exaggerations or outright lies. Sure, it might not have been a good idea to use a personal server, but it wouldn't have worked out too well to have every one of her emails accessible to Republican witch hunters, either.

Dems need to quit playing defense on the Republican's field and start more of the positive. And they need to disabuse this ridiculous idea that what is needed is a "non politician" "outsider." When private industry companies talk about "bringing in an outsider" they just mean somebody from another company - not somebody who is a complete amateur. Getting things done in government is dependent on knowing people - personally or professionally. Building relationships and bridges. Hillary understands that. I wish she was as good at it as Bill, but still.
I have a hard time with professional experience. She held the highest secretary position in the entire United States, and yet, she's so inept she can't use a computer. That's total WTF I can't care who you are. She couldn't even get a real secretary job.

... yes that's the ability to use computers is only part of her job description.... I realize that. -- Still.... W_T_F.

Seth Milner
Lieutenant Commander
Posts: 2334
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:52 pm
Location: Somewhere on Lake Keowee, SC

Re: Hillary

Unread post by Seth Milner »

What's the need in knowing how to use a computer when someone else is being paid big bucks to do it for you?
Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive

User avatar
rstrong
Captain
Posts: 5889
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:32 am
Location: Winnipeg, MB

Re: Hillary

Unread post by rstrong »

bannination wrote:I have a hard time with professional experience. She held the highest secretary position in the entire United States, and yet, she's so inept she can't use a computer. That's total WTF I can't care who you are.
That would count for the previous administration which used a Republican Party server for much of their server, and "lost" a great many emails. Plus official mail going through a private accounts elsewhere, like Secretary of State Colin Powell's.

It would count for Jeb! who ran his own mail server. And then released much of it, not through a government agency that would vet and scrub it, but directly including other people's personal details such as social security numbers, names and addresses.

And of course it would count for various people in Congress who get around FOIA requests by claiming that they don't use email. Instead they send and receive it through their assistants' private email addresses. (Ta-Da!) Making Hillary a computer WIZARD compared to them.

Again, the real question is why NEITHER party wanted to use government servers.

One hint - used against Hillary - is the claim that because her emails were being flagged as spam, the State Department TURNED OFF their spam filters. Which is pure bullshit. I run three mail servers. You would flag just her email address or server's IP address as non-spam, and everything else would go through the filters. That claim alone tells us that Hillary's server was probably run more competently than the alternative.

User avatar
bannination
Captain
Posts: 5502
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:58 am
Location: Hendersonville
Contact:

Re: Hillary

Unread post by bannination »

rstrong wrote:
bannination wrote:I have a hard time with professional experience. She held the highest secretary position in the entire United States, and yet, she's so inept she can't use a computer. That's total WTF I can't care who you are.
That would count for the previous administration which used a Republican Party server for much of their server, and "lost" a great many emails. Plus official mail going through a private accounts elsewhere, like Secretary of State Colin Powell's.

It would count for Jeb! who ran his own mail server. And then released much of it, not through a government agency that would vet and scrub it, but directly including other people's personal details such as social security numbers, names and addresses.

And of course it would count for various people in Congress who get around FOIA requests by claiming that they don't use email. Instead they send and receive it through their assistants' private email addresses. (Ta-Da!) Making Hillary a computer WIZARD compared to them.

Again, the real question is why NEITHER party wanted to use government servers.

One hint - used against Hillary - is the claim that because her emails were being flagged as spam, the State Department TURNED OFF their spam filters. Which is pure bullshit. I run three mail servers. You would flag just her email address or server's IP address as non-spam, and everything else would go through the filters. That claim alone tells us that Hillary's server was probably run more competently than the alternative.
Well, if you're arguing that we have a government full of mostly corrupt idiots, I'm not inclined to disagree!

User avatar
bannination
Captain
Posts: 5502
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:58 am
Location: Hendersonville
Contact:

Re: Hillary

Unread post by bannination »

Seth Milner wrote:What's the need in knowing how to use a computer when someone else is being paid big bucks to do it for you?
Maybe so you could at least appear to be competent?

User avatar
Vrede too
Superstar Cultmaster
Posts: 50668
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC

Re: Hillary

Unread post by Vrede too »

So far, understanding that we'll never be unanimous on each item, the list includes:

She's better than Trump (or any other Republican).
Tried to get us single payer healthcare 25 years ago, and took a truckload of unwarranted personal heat for it.
Once having left Arkansas she never went back.
Hillary has the most directly applicable professional experience of most any other Presidential candidate, ever. And in all those jobs, she has done a competent job.
Building relationships and bridges. Hillary understands that.
Will try to overturn Citizens United and increase transparency in campaign funding.
No worse than Colin Powell and Jeb! :P
Always be yourself! Unless you can be a goat, then always be a goat.
-- the interweb, paraphrased
1312. ETTD.

Post Reply