The Food Thread

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rstrong
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Re: The Food Thread

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Vrede too
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Re: The Food Thread

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Re: The Food Thread

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Vrede's favorite food website.
tubegaybear.com

(Foodstuffs Included)
Proudly Telling It Like It Is: In Your Face! Whether You Like It Or Not!

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Re: The Food Thread

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Science vs. Smithfield Foods' industrial hog operations:

To UNC System President Margaret Spellings and UNC Chapel Hill Chancellor Carol Folt: We Stand For Academic Freedom / Request for Signatures

I heard about this from a Beyond Nuclear email:
... Dr. Wing is well known for his groundbreaking 1997 study which contradicted earlier studies minimizing the Three Mile Island nuclear accident health impacts. He and his team found that lung cancer and leukemia rates were two to 10 times higher downwind of the Three Mile Island reactor than upwind....
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Re: The Food Thread

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The Rachel Carson Council, founded in 1965, is the national environmental organization envisioned by Rachel Carson to carry on her work after her death. We promote Carson's ecological ethic that combines scientific concern for the environment and human health with a sense of wonder and reverence for all forms of life in order to build a sustainable, just, and peaceful future.

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Dr. Steve Wing, Environmental Health and Justice Advocate Passes

Our friend and colleague, Dr. Steve Wing, UNC professor of epidemiology, and an inspiration to environmental justice advocates across the nation has died of cancer November 9 surrounded by his family. Steve continued until the end to offer leadership in the struggle to defend the civil rights of communities of color harmed by pollution from industrial hog and poultry operations. To date, you and 1,000 American academics and researchers have signed an Open Letter initiated by the Rachel Carson Council in support of Dr. Wing and colleagues under attack by corporate hog producers. The Open Letter remains active and will be delivered to the head of the UNC university system. Thank you for your deep concern and continued efforts to carry on the legacies of Steve Wing and Rachel Carson. I have put here the link to a moving reflection posted by his wife, Betsy.
Steve Wing

Steve's wife, Betsy, and their daughters, Ann and Marion, have created this site to keep Steve's large community of friends, family, students and colleagues informed. We appreciate your support and words of hope and encouragement during this time. read about page

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It is with great sadness that we write this. Steve died peacefully this morning at home with Betsy, Ann and Marion at his side. His five weeks at home with hospice care were filled with sunshine, happy visits with friends and family and an amazing ability to remain engaged with the world in spite of rapidly declining health. It wasn’t until the last couple of days that it became evident that he wasn’t going to be here much longer.

Although many of you did not get the chance to see Steve one last time, please know that he felt sustained by the care and love of his communities near and far. Your support continues to bring us comfort as we move along in this journey. We are thankful to know that the strong, just and kind man whom we knew as a loving husband, father and grandfather was also so admired in his roles as a friend, musician, mentor, academic and community activist.
RIP
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Re: The Food Thread

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CBC: DNA test shows Subway sandwiches could contain just 50% chicken
An unadulterated piece of chicken from the store should come in at 100 per cent chicken DNA.  Seasoning, marinating or processing meat would bring that number down, so fast food samples seasoned for taste wouldn't be expected to hit that 100 per cent target.
[...]
Subway's results were such an outlier that the team decided to test them again, biopsying five new oven roasted chicken pieces, and five new orders of chicken strips.

Those results were averaged: the oven roasted chicken scored 53.6 per cent chicken DNA, and the chicken strips were found to have just 42.8 per cent chicken DNA. The majority of the remaining DNA? Soy.
Does this mean that the chicken strips can be considered vegetarian food?

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Re: The Food Thread

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Always be yourself! Unless you can be a goat, then always be a goat.
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Re: The Food Thread

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I will not lie down.
I will not go quietly.

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Re: The Food Thread

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True, but we will win some fights though it's hard to tell which ones ahead of time. At the least we'll have a track record of Trump's disdain for health and safety, which may be useful down the road. EPA Inspector General Arthur A. Elkins, Jr. is an Obama appointee, though he could be overruled, stifled or fired.
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Re: The Food Thread

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Protect communities near hog farms! (NC petition)

Most of us can enjoy sitting on our porch as our kids can play outside without worrying about odors drifting over from neighbors’ properties.

Some North Carolinians aren’t so lucky - they live near factory hog farms, where noxious animal waste is sprayed into the air. Some are fighting back in court right now against the (Chinese owned) world’s largest pork producer.

But some state lawmakers have filed a bill that would limit these plaintiffs’ ability to recover in the pending case and would limit recovery options in future cases.

Please use this form to send a message to your state representative and ask them to oppose House Bill 467, which would limit landowners’ rights to recovery in nuisance suits. Tell them to protect people who live - and breathe - near hog farms instead.
Private profits, socialized harm, as usual.
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Re: The Food Thread

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Vrede too wrote:
Protect communities near hog farms! (NC petition)
"Private profits, socialized harm, as usual."
Petition: "I also think that it’s inappropriate for the Legislature to insert itself into a pending lawsuit. That’s unfair - and potentially unconstitutional. Please vote against H467 and instead look for ways to help communities near hog farms
Of course it's "private profits" (mixed with just a wee bit stock market holdings ...)
I noticed the blanket petition didn't list any particular communities, which gives rise to the thought they just want to bitch about something.

Listed below are the major players in the production of pork products in N.C.

• Smithfield Foods was established in 1936
• Eckrich Farms was established in 1894 **
• Swift & Sons was established in 1855 **
• Gwaltney of Smithfield and John Morrell brands were trademark brand names owned
by Smithfield Foods.
• Premium Standard Farms of N.C. was established in 1988
• ** Eckrich Farms and Smith & Sons were subsequently purchased by
Smithfield Farms itself was purchased by a Chinese firm.

My point is, this "socialized harm" was well established long before many of these neighborhoods were even being dreamed of, or the smell of hog waste became an issue with the whiners. People who bought these homes had to know what they were getting into.

NC and the Feds have very stringent regulations that didn't exist just a few short decades ago regarding the disposal of animal waste. Unfortunately animal waste smells, but that smell means jobs, income, and of course, taxes ... but the cause of it has to be disposed of, unless a way is found to train each individual animal to use and flush a toilet; and you and I both know that'll never happen. (Think of the exorbitant increase in the price of a pound of bacon, or a T-bone steak!)

I would be interested in knowing how the Sierra Club thinks state government should "look for ways to help communities near hog farms";
maybe they ought'a just run 'em all outta business and put their workers on welfare ... would that be "unfair - and potentially unconstitutional"?

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Re: The Food Thread

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Mr.B wrote:
Vrede too wrote:
Protect communities near hog farms! (NC petition)
"Private profits, socialized harm, as usual."
Petition: "I also think that it’s inappropriate for the Legislature to insert itself into a pending lawsuit. That’s unfair - and potentially unconstitutional. Please vote against H467 and instead look for ways to help communities near hog farms
Of course it's "private profits" (mixed with just a wee bit stock market holdings ...)
I noticed the blanket petition didn't list any particular communities, which gives rise to the thought they just want to bitch about something.

Listed below are the major players in the production of pork products in N.C.

• Smithfield Foods was established in 1936
• Eckrich Farms was established in 1894 **
• Swift & Sons was established in 1855 **
• Gwaltney of Smithfield and John Morrell brands were trademark brand names owned
by Smithfield Foods.
• Premium Standard Farms of N.C. was established in 1988
• ** Eckrich Farms and Smith & Sons were subsequently purchased by
Smithfield Farms itself was purchased by a Chinese firm.

My point is, this "socialized harm" was well established long before many of these neighborhoods were even being dreamed of, or the smell of hog waste became an issue with the whiners. People who bought these homes had to know what they were getting into.

NC and the Feds have very stringent regulations that didn't exist just a few short decades ago regarding the disposal of animal waste. Unfortunately animal waste smells, but that smell means jobs, income, and of course, taxes ... but the cause of it has to be disposed of, unless a way is found to train each individual animal to use and flush a toilet; and you and I both know that'll never happen. (Think of the exorbitant increase in the price of a pound of bacon, or a T-bone steak!)

I would be interested in knowing how the Sierra Club thinks state government should "look for ways to help communities near hog farms";
maybe they ought'a just run 'em all outta business and put their workers on welfare ... would that be "unfair - and potentially unconstitutional"?

So it goes


These same companies, or their grandpappys, came through the states during the 50s and 60s sponsoring laws that made it illegal to take part in killing hogs anywhere but your own property.

My grandfather was never one to break the law, so he and his brothers stopped having the big family hog killing

He also had to quit milking for the same big business reason
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Re: The Food Thread

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I have nothing against any society that kills and eats animals. I DO abhor the cruel methods that are used many times to put an animal down.

Videos of the Chinese dog meat festival, shows graphic scenes of dogs and cats being boiled or skinned alive in the belief that the more any animal suffers, the better the meat will taste.

Videos from inside slaughter houses here in the U.S. are not exempt from animal cruelty; but fortunately when exposed, the culprits are prosecuted.

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Re: The Food Thread

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The corporate welfare bill for Smithfield Foods, etc. doesn't "list any particular communities," either, so the petition against it doesn't need to, duh.

If affected communities in some cases are younger than the farms and the farms haven't grown in their impact since the affected communities arrived, an excuse you're just making up as usual, it's for a jury to decide if that mitigates the health and nuisance claims. The NC GOP should not be creating blanket exemptions from reasonable compensation. No doubt you would throw a fit if there was a toxic spill near your home - the road/rail were there first, right? - and then discovered that the NC GOP had limited just compensation to you.

"... instead look for ways to help communities near hog farms." - Money, effort and science, duh.

I'm fine with consumer cost increases to cover and reduce the real world impacts of corporate activities. I believe in paying my way. Otherwise, your bacon is being subsidized by a reduced quality of life for usually poor, usually black, folks, slacker.
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Re: The Food Thread

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Vrede too wrote: "If affected communities in some cases are younger than the farms and the farms haven't grown in their impact since the affected communities arrived, an excuse you're just making up as usual, it's for a jury to decide if that mitigates the health and nuisance claims."
Obviously, in your haste to vilify my post, you conveniently overlooked the fact that I posted dates of establishment for each of the aforementioned companies. I'm certain that Smithfield, who now owns the latter mentioned companies, and was established in 1936, plopped themselves right in the middle of a community business district, or a planned housing development. How many medium to heavy populated areas do you think might have been clustered in 1936? I stand by my first statement that the homeowners (and developers) knew who their neighbor was (or going to be) before they bought the property; therefore the nuisance factor is a moot point and is clearly an attempt to stir up sentiments among the people, despite the benefits of the meat processors.

"The NC GOP should not be creating blanket exemptions from reasonable compensation."
Oh, of course! The GOP!
"Reasonable compensation" for what? If "reasonable compensation" were to become a calling card for every wingnut out to make a killing off litigation; everybody and his brother would be clamoring to move close to a dump, meat processor, asphalt company, etc. so as to profit off "reasonable compensation". If the homeowner was there first; then there would be a possibility of "reasonable compensation" for "health and nuisance" claims.


"No doubt you would throw a fit if there was a toxic spill near your home - the road/rail were there first, right? - and then discovered that the NC GOP had limited just compensation to you."
Of course I would pitch a fit; so would you, even if you weren't a professional activist/agitator; but that's a completely different scenario than the subject of this thread. Many state governments HAVE set limits on claim amounts; depending of course, on the severity of the contents of the claim.

"... instead look for ways to help communities near hog farms." - Money, effort and science, duh."
Whose money? Whose efforts? What science? (goes back to 'whose money' re: research)
You deal a lot in b.s., maybe you know of a way to make animal waste less smelly? There's a huge reward waiting if you make it known. :lol:
According to you, the "ways to help communities" would be the money you mention for nuisance compensation.


"I'm fine with consumer cost increases to cover and reduce the real world impacts of corporate activities. I believe in paying my way."
You have to be fine with it; you've no choice but to pay your way if you want the product. That's no earth-shattering revelation.

"Otherwise, your bacon is being subsidized by a reduced quality of life for usually poor, usually black, folks, slacker."
"usually poor, usually black, folks, slacker" ... you wanna decipher that? :lol: Punctuation 101 much?
Last edited by Mr.B on Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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O Really
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Re: The Food Thread

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So let's see, if we've got a wrecking yard that has been in the same place for 75 years. It's still following the same practices it always has, including dumping oil and petrol into ground pits along with old batteries, open burning tires, and letting mean dogs roam freely. As the town or residential communities build around them, should they be able to keep the same practices just because they were there first? Do new residents and businesses really have to breathe tire smoke on their own property? Should the junk yard be able to cause a "do not build" area around itself so as to be able to keep dumping toxics and burning tires, and therefore devalue the property others own? Maybe it's reasonable to "grandfather" in the existence of the junkyard, but it's also reasonable to require it to upgrade its practices to current standards.

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Re: The Food Thread

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O Really wrote:"So let's see, if we've got a wrecking yard that has been in the same place for 75 years. It's still following the same practices it always has, including dumping oil and petrol into ground pits along with old batteries, open burning tires, and letting mean dogs roam freely. As the town or residential communities build around them, should they be able to keep the same practices just because they were there first? Do new residents and businesses really have to breathe tire smoke on their own property? Should the junk yard be able to cause a "do not build" area around itself so as to be able to keep dumping toxics and burning tires, and therefore devalue the property others own? Maybe it's reasonable to "grandfather" in the existence of the junkyard, but it's also reasonable to require it to upgrade its practices to current standards."
That's a ludicrous, strawman comparison, O Really; I'm surprised you'd even make a comparison such as this.

Firstly, the "practices" you mention are illegal, and have been for many, many years in practically every state. Generally, prospective communities don't build around established metal recyclers, and if residential building was to begin creeping in, the business is REQUIRED to have a privacy fence encircling their property. (Lady Bird Johnson's Highway Beautification Act of 1965)

The burning of old tires is also illegal in practically every state, as well as burying old batteries.

I don't think mean dogs running loose in a scrap yard is illegal as long as it's when the business is closed and the gates locked to contain them.
After all, some of their residents whose homes surround their business might want to slip in at night and steal metals that can be sold for drugs. (opps!)

So yes, a wrecking yard that's been in the same place for 75 years does have some protections under the law providing they're in compliance with laws that regulate their business.

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Re: The Food Thread

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It's not a straw man, it's an analogy.
But in any case, just because a practice is illegal doesn't mean it's not continued after becoming illegal. And at the point it became illegal (whether that is 2017 or back in 1960), the business would have squawked over how it's being put upon and driven out of business by the gentrifiers. Maybe my knowledge of the details of running a junk yard isn't as great as yours, but I do know of at least one place in Florida that was doing all those things as recently as 6 or 7 years ago. And for some reason, despite neighbors howling the county never could manage to shut them down. Maybe they paid protection money for all I know.

But my view is that any practice that has been determined to be hazardous to the environment or to people in the area should be changed, either voluntarily or through law, no matter how long it's been in business. And if their product, distribution, and management is any good, I'll bet they'll stay in business after the changes.

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Re: The Food Thread

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O Really wrote:"But my view is that any practice that has been determined to be hazardous to the environment or to people in the area should be changed, either voluntarily or through law, no matter how long it's been in business. And if their product, distribution, and management is any good, I'll bet they'll stay in business after the changes."
Meat processors are more closely scrutinized than any other business in NC, with many being heavily fined for violations; including some violations that weren't completely their doing.

For instance, a few years back, in a sparsely populated area of this county, a hog farm pumped their liquidized hog waste into man-made lagoons which quickly dried in the sun with a minimum of odors. The dried residue was given away as fertilizer to whoever wanted to come get it.

Heavy, prolonged rains caused the lagoons to overflow and spill out, some eventually reaching a creek over half a mile away. The farmers were heavily fined, and being a small operation, were forced to close.

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