Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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Vrede too
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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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Always be yourself! Unless you can be a goat, then always be a goat.
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1312. ETTD.

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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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You aren't doing it wrong if no one knows what you are doing.

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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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Always be yourself! Unless you can be a goat, then always be a goat.
-- the interweb, paraphrased
1312. ETTD.

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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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Disqus: adopt a hate speech policy now.

Corporations are starting to realize how disgusting and hateful Breitbart, aka “Trump News,” is—and they don’t want anything to do with it. But Disqus, the third-party software that runs its comment section, so far has no problem hosting one of the vilest cesspools on the Internet.

If Breitbart is bad—and it is—its comment section, run by Disqus, showcases the worst of humankind. Racist, sexist and homophobic slurs are standard, with other users calling for the mass murder of feminists, people of colour and refugees. The sheer ferocity and volume of hate will leave you breathless. We know Breitbart doesn’t care—but shouldn’t Disqus?

Already, over 1,400 corporations have pulled their ads from Breitbart, and more are joining each day. Over 700,000 SumOfUs members have joined our campaign so far, and 2 weeks ago we delivered over 200,000 signatures at Shopify's HQ, the business that sells its merchandise.

Disqus is slow to learn that there is no middle ground when it comes to hate. It can’t turn a blind eye to calls for the murder of Muslims that occur on the software it designs, sells and hosts.

We’re calling on Disqus to develop a hate speech policy and ditch Breitbart News.

Normally this would be the part of the mailing where I would outline the racism and sexism displayed on Disqus’s Breitbart comment section. But it’s so bad, I can’t—not only because it may be illegal, but because it makes me sick to my stomach. And that’s nothing compared to the vulnerable people targeted by this reckless hate, which has only been emboldened by President Trump’s horrible executive orders.

Disqus will say that it believes in free speech first and that its hands are tied. We believe in free speech too—that’s why hundreds of thousands of us have fought for net neutrality and press freedom from corporate influence. But this isn’t about free speech. It is about providing a privately-funded platform to spread hateful slurs and literal calls for the mass murder of minorities.

Disqus is absolutely complicit and we need to make its leadership team understand that.

Join us and tell Disqus to adopt a hate speech policy and drop Breitbart News immediately.

Sign the petition

TO: Disqus

Adopt a hate speech policy and ditch Breitbart News.
I haven't signed this one yet. What do y'all think of making demands of a 3rd party comments section manager?
Always be yourself! Unless you can be a goat, then always be a goat.
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rstrong
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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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Vrede too wrote:I haven't signed this one yet. What do y'all think of making demands of a 3rd party comments section manager?
Asking Disqus to disassociate themselves from Breitbart is OK. Refusing to deal with Disqus unless they disassociate themselves from Breitbart is OK.

*Demanding* that they disassociate themselves from Breitbart would not be NOT OK. Freedom of speech and association is more important.
"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."
- Noam Chomsky
But the issue is messier than that:

- When someone sells a car, they should not have the right to dictate how the customer uses it. They should not be able to say, "To use this product you MUST vote Democrat" or "You may not allow gay passengers." Or even "No rolling coal." While in some places illegal, it's for the legal system to dictate, not the seller.

There's no reason that software should be any different.

- Just like companies using Ad Sense didn't know that their ads were showing up on Breitbart, someone selling software might not know they're selling to Breitbart. It could be purchased through a numbered company or associated IT company.

And the seller should not have the power to remotely deactivate the software when they find out. I'd make an exception for an obvious safety issue like the Samsung Note 7, but not for Breitbart-type behavior that we merely despise.

I'm not a fan of all the (non-court-tested BTW) shrink-wrap license agreements common in the software industry. Claims that "we only licensed it to you, so we get more say in how you use it." We're starting to see cloud-based *hardware* remotely disabled and other terrible behavior at the whim of sleazy companies that sold it. Hopefully we'll see some laws on that soon.

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Vrede too
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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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rstrong wrote:Asking Disqus to disassociate themselves from Breitbart is OK. Refusing to deal with Disqus unless they disassociate themselves from Breitbart is OK.

*Demanding* that they disassociate themselves from Breitbart would not be NOT OK. Freedom of speech and association is more important.

Which do you think this is? There's no threat, but there's also no "please".
"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."
- Noam Chomsky
But the issue is messier than that:

- When someone sells a car, they should not have the right to dictate how the customer uses it. They should not be able to say, "To use this product you MUST vote Democrat" or "You may not allow gay passengers." Or even "No rolling coal." While in some places illegal, it's for the legal system to dictate, not the seller.

These days cars can be remotely disabled, like in the event of theft. Would a hate speech filter, if a reasonable one can be created, be any different? A guess would be that it would be pretty loose, probably limited to calls for violence and other illegal hate speech.

There's no reason that software should be any different.

- Just like companies using Ad Sense didn't know that their ads were showing up on Breitbart, someone selling software might not know they're selling to Breitbart. It could be purchased through a numbered company or associated IT company.

And the seller should not have the power to remotely deactivate the software when they find out. I'd make an exception for an obvious safety issue like the Samsung Note 7, but not for Breitbart-type behavior that we merely despise.

Germany and other European nations make promoting Naziism - an apt comparison to Liarbart, especially its comments - illegal. Good thing or bad? I have mixed feelings about that, too, but I can understand where Europeans are coming from on it.

I'm not a fan of all the (non-court-tested BTW) shrink-wrap license agreements common in the software industry. Claims that "we only licensed it to you, so we get more say in how you use it." We're starting to see cloud-based *hardware* remotely disabled and other terrible behavior at the whim of sleazy companies that sold it. Hopefully we'll see some laws on that soon.

Using this as an example, how is asking Disqus to ditch Liarbart News any different from asking companies to stop advertising with it? Is Disqus getting ongoing license, etc. fees from Liarbart and does that make it more complicit than a one time sale of software?
Thanks, you've covered some of my concerns about signing and more. It is a new ethical issue to me, that's why I asked.
Always be yourself! Unless you can be a goat, then always be a goat.
-- the interweb, paraphrased
1312. ETTD.

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rstrong
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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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Vrede too wrote:These days cars can be remotely disabled, like in the event of theft. Would a hate speech filter, if a reasonable one can be created, be any different?
Yes. A car remotely disabled because of theft is done so at the bidding of the owner. Not so with the hate speech filter. It would mean that the car "owner" does not own the car, and the manufacturer committed fraud when they "sold" it to him.

And I don't think that car rental agencies should be able to regulate customers' speech either.
Vrede too wrote:Germany and other European nations make promoting Naziism - an apt comparison to Liarbart, especially its comments - illegal.
Germany does. But I expect the surrender terms had something to do with it.

Plus promoting Al Qaida or ISIS will get you arrested in your country and mine. Being a "clear and present danger" counts for something. Nazis are now much more "a bunch of nutjobs" than a "clear and present danger" in North America, but Germany considers the local situation to be a bit different.
Vrede too wrote:Using this as an example, how is asking Disqus to ditch Liarbart News any different from asking companies to stop advertising with it? Is Disqus getting ongoing license, etc. fees from Liarbart and does that make it more complicit than a one time sale of software?
That all depends on the license.

And refusing to renew a licence isn't necessarily an option. When you pay the initial up-front cost of a product - and put in hundreds of hours of labor setting it up, learning it and integrating it with your own software - you do so with the understanding that you can renew it. Having years of your data (forum posts) trapped in it is also a sticking point. Unless the vendor has a Sudden Existence Failure, it'll get sued if it arbitrarily stops renewals. And it'll lose.

The companies whose ads appeared on Breitbart via AdSense had no agreements or relationship with Breitbart. They're immune to any lawsuit if their ads stop appearing.

The ad company probably had no agreement on *which* ads appear on Breitbart - so they can serve up other ads. Breitbart may be getting the same number of ads and the same ad revenue. But their readers may be suckered into even more gold scams.

I'll bet that Disqus is exploring the option of just selling the software WITHOUT their logo appearing on every page that uses it.

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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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"Freedom of speech" as a legal concept or as part of the Constitution doesn't mean that any private company is obligated to facilitate that free speech. I would find no conflict myself at all to say that Breitbart's Batshits have the right to say whatever they want and still say that I'll be happy to put pressure on companies not to publish what they say or give them a platform to say it from. If Breitbart bought the software from Disqus, maybe, as already mentioned, Disqus is unable to put restrictions on how Brietbart uses it or what they allow on it. But I like the idea of built-in filters, if that is workable. Or work on their licensing agreement. I don't have the answer, but if it were my company, I wouldn't want its name on software carrying Breitbart's poster's crap. (what rstrong said)

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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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Here's a petition that I did not sign:
Stop corporate funders of hate groups

The big payment processing companies - Visa, MasterCard, American Express and Discover - are processing funds for some of the vilest white supremacist groups.

White supremacist hubs like Stormfront are able to easily receive funding from their members because these companies are allowing them too. And thanks to transaction fees, these companies are making money every time someone donates to these hate groups....
The last thing that I want is for the Big Banks to be deciding what political groups are acceptable or not. Plus, potential donors can easily find another way. So, it's a largely meaningless action.
Always be yourself! Unless you can be a goat, then always be a goat.
-- the interweb, paraphrased
1312. ETTD.

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rstrong
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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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No doubt many of those who sign the petition to stop processing payments for Breitbart, were opposed to the same companies stopping payments for WikiLeaks.

Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger.
- Enzo Robutti as Don Licio Lucchesi in The Godfather, Part III

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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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Vrede too wrote:Here's a petition that I did not sign:
Stop corporate funders of hate groups

The big payment processing companies - Visa, MasterCard, American Express and Discover - are processing funds for some of the vilest white supremacist groups.

White supremacist hubs like Stormfront are able to easily receive funding from their members because these companies are allowing them too. And thanks to transaction fees, these companies are making money every time someone donates to these hate groups....
The last thing that I want is for the Big Banks to be deciding what political groups are acceptable or not. Plus, potential donors can easily find another way. So, it's a largely meaningless action.


it also leaves open the purely accidental possibility of losing the security measures associated with these accounts.
Trump: “We had the safest border in the history of our country - or at least recorded history. I guess maybe a thousand years ago it was even better.”

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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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Stop corporate funders of hate groups

The big payment processing companies - Visa, MasterCard, American Express and Discover - are processing funds for some of the vilest white supremacist groups.

White supremacist hubs like Stormfront are able to easily receive funding from their members because these companies are allowing them too. And thanks to transaction fees, these companies are making money every time someone donates to these hate groups....
This might have been simpler a year ago. But now...
rstrong wrote:Anne Frank Center Calls For Resignation of Trump Adviser Sebastian Gorka

Gorka is one of the Brietbarters that Trump took with him to the White House, where he serves as "counter-terrorism adviser." He's also a non-metaphorical Nazi.
...Between Gorka, Bannon, Trump and others, the big payment processing companies would have to stop processing payments for the Republican Party.

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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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. . . and the US government.
billy.pilgrim wrote:it also leaves open the purely accidental possibility of losing the security measures associated with these accounts.
:lol: :twisted: If you apply for a job at a credit card company, I will give you a reference.
Always be yourself! Unless you can be a goat, then always be a goat.
-- the interweb, paraphrased
1312. ETTD.

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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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Re: Stop corporate funders of hate groups
https://act.colorofchange.org/sign/stop ... 168.Qxphpd

Not signed. The last thing that I want is for the Big Banks to be deciding what political groups are acceptable or not. Plus, potential donors can easily find another way. So, it's a largely meaningless action.
Thank you for emailing us. We know that not every ColorOfChange campaign will resonate with every member and that some members will disagree with some of the actions we ask you to take.

We’re sorry that you had concerns about this campaign, and we want you to know that we’re reading and paying attention to your comments and to those of other members with similar positions to yours. We are grateful that you took the time to express your concerns.

Sincerely,
Malika
Member Relations Specialist
ColorOfChange.org
Message delivered, rstrong:
A friend pointed out that most of us were on the other side of this issue when the credit card companies and PayPal cut off Wikileaks in the wake of the Chelsea Manning revelations.
I probably won't get a new reply, which is fine. They've stated their standard position politely.
Always be yourself! Unless you can be a goat, then always be a goat.
-- the interweb, paraphrased
1312. ETTD.

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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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Always be yourself! Unless you can be a goat, then always be a goat.
-- the interweb, paraphrased
1312. ETTD.

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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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Not surprising to me, other than that the source is the rightwing, albeit libertarian, Cato Institute:
GAO Weighs In On “Countering Violent Extremism”

The ongoing controversy and litigation over the Trump administration’s “Muslim ban” has reignited a debate that has raged since the 9/11 attacks: Who commits more domestic terrorism–violent Salafists or traditional “right wing” extremists? According to a Government Accountability Office (GAO) report, it’s the latter and by a very wide margin. From p. 4 of GAO’s report:
Of the 85 violent extremist incidents that resulted in death since September 12, 2001, far right wing violent extremist groups were responsible for 62 (73 percent) while radical Islamist violent extremists were responsible for 23 (27 percent).
But as researchers at the Georgia State recently reported, media coverage of terrorist incidents makes it seem as if terrorism is almost exclusively perpetrated by Muslims:
We examined news coverage from LexisNexis Academic and CNN.com for all terrorist attacks in the United States between 2011 and 2015. Controlling for target type, fatalities, and being arrested, attacks by Muslim perpetrators received, on average, 449% more coverage than other attacks. Given the disproportionate quantity of news coverage for these attacks, it is no wonder that people are afraid of the Muslim terrorist. More representative media coverage could help to bring public perception of terrorism in line with reality.
... House and Senate members need to base federal counterterrorism policies on facts–such as the role U.S. foreign policy in the Arab and Muslim world plays in fueling terrorism. Members of Congress who want to win the war of “hearts and minds” vis a vis ISIS need to remember that our greatest weapon is a strict adherence to constitutional norms of free association and speech, and that targeting fellow citizens of Arab descent or the Muslim faith for evidence-free surveillance and political repression only validates the ISIS narrative that America is at war with the Muslim and Arab world.
Always be yourself! Unless you can be a goat, then always be a goat.
-- the interweb, paraphrased
1312. ETTD.

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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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Always be yourself! Unless you can be a goat, then always be a goat.
-- the interweb, paraphrased
1312. ETTD.

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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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Lotta loud butthurt coming out of that closet. I've never seen anyone who is so terrified.
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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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Always be yourself! Unless you can be a goat, then always be a goat.
-- the interweb, paraphrased
1312. ETTD.

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