Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

[Colonel Taylor]

So many anti-christian are so disappointed that these folk are praying and not acting like the terrorist in liberal utopias of cleveland and ferguson.

Source?

I used the same one that one the followers (Boaty) used say that Roof was a KKK member and a TeaBagger.
He'll be along soon to tell us don't worry!

By the way did you fix the ignore feature yet, some here say Mr.B and I am on ignore yet reply to nearly all our post so I am assuming it's broke or they are just lying again?

So no source then. Ok.

You'll have to ask Boaty? Told ya I used the same source ?

[Seth Milner]

That's what white folks keep saying, few blacks believe it.

"Saying" and "believing"; two key words here. What people say and what people believe are as old as time. In regards to the flag comments, these are expressed OPINIONS; I stated mine above, and you stated yours.

The rebel flag was not originally a symbol of racism, nor was it intended to be, regardless how people felt, or still feel about it. It was/is a battle flag, differing in appearance than the flag of the Union that the southern states wanted to secede from. Slave ownership played a part in their desire to secede; therefore it was ASSUMED that slave ownership was the sole purpose of the south having a different flag than the north.

Just curious, what do you think the reaction would be if northern states displayed Union battle flags as part of their heritage?

There are displaying it, only in a newer, revised form. There was no Union battle flag. Look at the photo and decide the answer to your question.



"During the Civil War, stars were NOT removed from the United States Flag, as Confederate States seceded from the Union. The Federal Government did not recognize the legality of the secession, and would not acknowledge it with a removal of stars from the flag. The Southern states were not represented in Congress during these years, but their stars remained on the flag."

Opinions of what the rebel flag stood for are as varied as opinions or interpretations of the Constitution, the Bible, The Bill of Rights, the Pledge of Allegiance, standing for the judge's entrance to the courtroom, how to make real clam chowder, etc. We all have differing opinions, none of which are absolutely right or absolutely wrong.

Truth be known, I'm in that 58% that has no reaction to seeing the rebel flag flying anywhere. It's a piece of decorative cloth; however it's fun to see people get their undies in a twist over it.

[GoCubsGo]

You might want to do a quick Google search on Union battle flags, there were many, some for a state or others for a regiment etc. Often times the battle flags were how the good guys and bad guys could tell who was who.

[Seth Milner]

You might want to do a quick Google search on Union battle flags, there were many, some for a state or others for a regiment etc. Often times the battle flags were how the good guys and bad guys could tell who was who.

Correct, however, I was speaking of the official Union flag. You didn't specify; you only said Union battle flags.

The rebel flag represented the majority of southern states; namely those wishing to secede.

But, let's answer you original question:

Just curious, what do you think the reaction would be if northern states displayed Union battle flags as part of their heritage?

I doubt there would be any real reaction, a lot of curious stares though. Slavery was not a much-liked subject; therefore, there had to be patsy to take the blame, in this case the rebel flag.

Don't get me wrong; I am not a fan of the south or the north as far as our ancient history is concerned. Why the battles were fought no longer concern me, although it was a sad time in our history given that so many had to die; that does bother me, and the fact that so many today still bring up bulls**t like this to fuss, argue, and point fingers, is infantile.

[Bungalow Bill]

To me the Confederate flag stands for the hope of racial equality,
just as the Nazi swastika flag stand for philosemitism.

[Vrede too]

... The rebel flag was not originally a symbol of racism, nor was it intended to be, regardless how people felt, or still feel about it. It was/is a battle flag, differing in appearance than the flag of the Union that the southern states wanted to secede from. Slave ownership played a part in their desire to secede; therefore it was ASSUMED that slave ownership was the sole purpose of the south having a different flag than the north.

It was the chief difference, the slavers said so in their own secession declarations. No slavery, no slavers wanting to maintain it, no war.

Now, the slaver flag is the deliberately chosen banner of racists desperate over a world where they're losing their privilege like drawings being washed off a beach by the tide.



And, it's an affront to most citizen descendants of the slaves.

Truth be known, I'm in that 58% that has no reaction to seeing the rebel flag flying anywhere. It's a piece of decorative cloth; however it's fun to see people get their undies in a twist over it.

We're not talking about the back window of Bubba's pickup truck. It's flown at the state capitol you pay taxes to, an homage to bygone slavery and modern racism. You ought to care.

[Seth Milner]

We're not talking about the back window of Bubba's pickup truck. It's flown at the state capitol you pay taxes to, an homage to bygone slavery and modern racism. You ought to care.

Again, you have your opinion, I have mine. You believe it's a symbol of racism, I believe it's a historic symbol of our past. There are other more important things for me to worry or care about rather than the design on a flag that's flying somewhere on a flag pole or in a pick-up. As far as my taxes, that flag has nothing to do with whether I pay them or not.

"Now, the slaver (rebel) flag is the deliberately chosen banner of racists "

The idiot in the photos you've posted is totally clueless about the real meaning of that flag; just as people have twisted the words and interpretations of the aforementioned items in my previous post. Anything can be chosen and turned into a symbol of whatever; just get the gullible masses to believe it, and it becomes real.

I'm in that 58% that has no reaction to seeing the rebel flag flying anywhere... it's fun to see people get their undies in a twist over it though.

[O Really]

Different people have different ideas of what the Confederate flag means to them. Some say "heritage" "history" or respect for fallen soldiers. Others display it to show the same slave-supporting, secessionist attitude of those who went off to war against their country. But overall, I think it can honestly and accurately be described as a symbol of a failed rebellion against the United States, which was based at least in substantial part on a desire to maintain slavery. Now I could (not me personally, but generically) say that I fly the Nazi flag as part of my heritage - that my great grandfather fought gallantly as an SS officer, fighting for what he believed in. Would anybody believe that? Would anybody let me hoist that flag over a public building? If a Confederate flag was flown alongside other flags significant in the history of South Carolina (like 6 flags over Texas but maybe fewer flags), I wouldn't have a problem with it. History is history. What happened, happened. But the way the Confederate battle flag is often displayed today is not historical. It's current. And while the redneck can exercise his United States - not Confederate States - right to his freedom of speech, why should it be acceptable for a state government to continue to support a failed rebellion?

[Vrede too]

Even if there were no other reason, tens of millions of the descendants of slaves, also taxpayers, are deeply hurt and offended by the slaver flag. One would think South Carolinians with even a shred of basic human decency, compassion and manners would find that sufficient cause to say, "Ah, it doesn't have to fly at the Capitol, there are plenty of private options to display it." I guess not.

[Mr.B]

"Even if there were no other reason, tens of millions of the descendants of slaves, also taxpayers, are deeply hurt and offended by the slaver flag. One would think South Carolinians with even a shred of basic human decency, compassion and manners would find that sufficient cause to say, "Ah, it doesn't have to fly at the Capitol, there are plenty of private options to display it." I guess not.

Six million Blacks were not slaughtered under the banner of the Confederate flag. It is illegal, in many European countries, to fly the Nazi flag.

[Boatrocker]

"Even if there were no other reason, tens of millions of the descendants of slaves, also taxpayers, are deeply hurt and offended by the slaver flag. One would think South Carolinians with even a shred of basic human decency, compassion and manners would find that sufficient cause to say, "Ah, it doesn't have to fly at the Capitol, there are plenty of private options to display it." I guess not.

Six million Blacks were not slaughtered under the banner of the Confederate flag. It is illegal, in many European countries, to fly the Nazi flag.

As it should be here, to fly the confederate rag.

[GoCubsGo]

"Even if there were no other reason, tens of millions of the descendants of slaves, also taxpayers, are deeply hurt and offended by the slaver flag. One would think South Carolinians with even a shred of basic human decency, compassion and manners would find that sufficient cause to say, "Ah, it doesn't have to fly at the Capitol, there are plenty of private options to display it." I guess not.

Six million Blacks were not slaughtered under the banner of the Confederate flag. It is illegal, in many European countries, to fly the Nazi flag.

Yeah, because "only" 700,000 Americans died in the Civil War, far greater than our total in WW 2. Fortunately and bizarrely, the first amendment allows the flying of both. Why would anyone with an iota of common sense and/or decency fly either?

Heritage shmeritage, history shmistory, it glorifies a fucking war.

[O Really]

I think it's safe to say the US, with it's allies, defeated the Third Reich of Germany. No state or government building in the US as far as I know displays the flag of the Third Reich. The US, with it's allies, defeated Japan, and as far as I know, no state or government building as far as I know displays the "Rising Sun" flag. Without doubt, the US defeated the rebellion of some of its states, yet continues to tolerate the display of the defeated flag, as part of "freedom of speech" even when displayed by a governmental entity. How many other countries can you name that allow the display by a governmental entity of a flag of a defeated adversary?

[Vrede too]

Six million Blacks were not slaughtered under the banner of the Confederate flag. It is illegal, in many European countries, to fly the Nazi flag.

My guess is that Mr.B has no clue how many millions of blacks were killed by slavers, died early deaths because they were slaves, were killed in capture attempts, died on the slaver ships crossing the Atlantic, or lived their whole lives as slaves. I sure don't. So, his comparison is meaningless, even if "not as bad as the Nazis" was a legitimate reference point. The slaver flag stood for a desire for all that to continue.

Besides, no one is talking about banning the slaver flag, just not having the government of ALL the people endorse it.

[Vrede too]

... How many other countries can you name that allow the display by a governmental entity of a flag of a defeated adversary?

Not just an adversary, but a treasonous one.

[Vrede too]

... Heritage shmeritage, history shmistory, it glorifies a fucking war.

To be fair, so does the US flag, bunches of them.

[O Really]

I would expect the skull and bones pirate flag to be hoisted as "historical" in the Conch Republic, but so far I haven't seen it. The Confederate battle flag has historical significance, fershure and should be in museums and places like Civil War battlefields. But contemporary use by any governmental entity is a bit different - but no different from the city of Da Nang proudly flying the flag of South Viet Nam, which I'm sure is perfectly acceptable.

[O Really]

Roof was a Lutheran, according to his minister. But I doubt most Lutherans agree with his views. Nevertheless, he could apparently dovetail his religion with his racism. I guess it's another example of the degree of flexibility in the rules of Christianity membership.

[GoCubsGo]

... Heritage shmeritage, history shmistory, it glorifies a fucking war.

To be fair, so does the US flag, bunches of them.

Crap on a cracker, you're right. Guess we shouldn't start on the National Anthem.

[Mr.B]

"I think it's safe to say the US, with it's allies, defeated the Third Reich of Germany. No state or government building in the US as far as I know displays the flag of the Third Reich. The US, with it's allies, defeated Japan, and as far as I know, no state or government building as far as I know displays the "Rising Sun" flag. Without doubt, the US defeated the rebellion of some of its states, yet continues to tolerate the display of the defeated flag, as part of "freedom of speech" even when displayed by a governmental entity. How many other countries can you name that allow the display by a governmental entity of a flag of a defeated adversary?"

I believe that falls under one of those Constitutional thingys y'all are always harping on .... ? Something that we, as Americans enjoy, but is limited in other countries?

Mexico beat the crap out of us at the Alamo, we returned the favor in The Mexican-American War; yet there's that Mexican flag thingy and our prez sneering at laws dealing with illegals from Mexico .... on and on and on.

There is no federal prohibition from flying any flag because doing so is protected under the first amendment, as long as it does not fly higher than the US flag, nor alongside the US if the flag is antagonistic in nature. There are, however varying state laws dealing with the flag issue.

I'm not a fan of the Confederate flag, but's it just a piece of cloth; nothing to get my shorts in a wad over.
You lib wingnuts sure know how to make a mountain out of a mole-hill though!