Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

[Vrede too]

"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire, French Enlightenment philosopher.

[O Really]

"When you can make people believe absurdities, you can make them commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire, French Enlightenment philosopher.

Real life examples abound.

[Vrede too]

Found about child suicide bombers, sick but pretty funny: "Kids, they blow up so soon."


Disgruntled ex-employee kills 5, then self in Orlando workplace shooting: Sheriff

Are Islamist terrorists so focused on Europe because it's difficult to compete with Americans, including our rightwing terrorists, killing Americans?

[O Really]

So other than the general tragedy of yet another workplace shooting, there were a lot of things probably wrong with the situation leading up to it. They say he was "disgruntled." Did they hire a disgruntled person, or did they make him disgruntled while he worked there? During the time he was there, did he get into conflicts with other employees, and if so, did the employer actually investigate to see what the issues were? They've known since at least 2014 the guy was a loose cannon. Why didn't they fire him when they had a good occasion after the cops came to investigate his having beat up another employee? And when they did fire him (makes you wonder what he did that was worse than attacking another employee), was it clearly fair? I'll bet they just got tired of him and fired him over some minor crap. And when they fired him, did they give any pay in lieu of notice or did they box up his stuff and have security escort him out? Did they pay him for any vacation time he had accrued and not taken? And when he applied for unemployment, did they go down to try to make him ineligible as a "discharge for misconduct in connection with the work"? Did they receive any employment verification/reference requests and if so did they say anything that would have kept him from getting another job? After they fired him, did they do anything to improve building access security, since apparently he could just walk back in. I don't know the answers to all those questions, but I know that essentially every instance of workplace violence starts well before the actual event, and there are a whole lot of things employers can do to prevent or at least sharply reduce the likelihood of somebody getting killed.

[Vrede too]

... They've known since at least 2014 the guy was a loose cannon. Why didn't they fire him when they had a good occasion after the cops came to investigate his having beat up another employee? ...

No charges, though. Maybe the incident wasn't black and white and/or wasn't as serious as it seems in retrospect.

After you intervene, are employees more gruntled? I checked, it's a real word. If so, you should be proud of your career of gruntling.

We really screwed up this time, call Gruntler O Really.

[O Really]

I like that - Gruntler O Really.

It doesn't make any difference if he got charged with anything. A push and a shove should be enough to get him fired. I'm guessing whatever it was, it was significant enough for somebody to call the cops. I encourage employers to adopt an anti-bullying policy as well as anti-harassment. To make it clear that behaving badly isn't going to be tolerated.

Employers often try to avoid problems - "oh, he's just an asshole, but he does good work..." or "Jack and DeShaun are always riding each other, but they don't mean anything..." or "he's got a temper, and yells sometimes, but he gets over it..." or "he's just one that speaks his mind and doesn't care what anybody thinks..."

Employers also don't like to deal with "petty shit." Problem is, all major issues arise from petty shit. Deal with it now or deal with it later.

Free advice from the Gruntler.

[Vrede too]

Free job description and moniker from the Vredler. Put it on your business card?

Employers, I gruntle for you.


In the last 6 months, there have been four major attacks by white supremacists in the US

[rstrong]

Tell Amazon:
Stop funding misogyny and white supremacy. Stop advertising with Breitbart.

Breitbart's Lost Over 2,200 Advertisers 

The over 2,200 companies include ConEd, Subaru, Toyota, and T-Mobile, thanks in part to Sleeping Giants, an activist group which tweets several times a day at companies which unwittingly advertise there via third-party vendors. (Amazon remains on the advertising roster).
[...]
After the election, its readers are leaving, too. The Washington Post reports that traffic is down 53 percent since November.

I don't believe that Yet Another Online Petition had any effect whatsoever. But Sleeping Giants seems to deserve a lot of credit.

[Vrede too]

My experience has been that people that sneer at activists, "You should be doing _______ tactic or cause, instead," aren't doing anything.

I've never claimed that petitions are the best. They're just the best to share on this platform, especially since I don't do Twitter or NSAbook, and they give y'all an opportunity to learn about and further engage with the groups sponsoring the petitions if you choose. It's not like our bitching about whatever accomplishes anything besides providing us entertainment.

My guess is that the oddly anonymous Sleeping Giants would be the first to say that their work is amplified not just by their own 73,000 followers, re-tweets and new tweets, but also by the allied groups working on the the same issue doing research, organizing, petitions and other tactics. In fact, in your link Sleeping Giants cites a Buzzfeed article that says:

... A viral petition on the activism site SumOfUs.org titled “Amazon: Stop Investing in Hate” has collected over 311,000 signatures.

It's now at 589,606 signatures (Buzzfeed embeds a link for anyone that wants to sign). Rather than being "Yet Another Online Petition", I'll bet that the Liarbart issue is the only petition that many of these advertisers are receiving.

[rstrong]

It's not activism; it's slacktivism.

Slacktivism, like prayer, lets you convince yourself that you've done something while doing nothing at all. "Don't buy gas on X day, to send a message to (vague mumbling) and support the environment!" Even though you'll be buying that gas on a different day, and the oil companies will sell the exact same amount of gas that week. "Like" this post if you oppose cancer! Turn your lights off for an hour on Earth Day, while tweeting about how you're not using electricity!

Petitions never meant as much as some might think. Witness the research scientist specializing in the sterilization of spruce bud worms, who wished to make a point about petitions. So, one afternoon, with witnesses in tow to verify this tale, he set out to collect a petition. No mere slap down your signature type petition, but a formal one with the signer's name, address, occupation and a sworn certification that the signatures were, to the best of the collector's knowledge and belief, correct.

After just over four hours collecting, he came up with 300 signatures on a petition. Which called for the execution of everyone who signed the petition.

Now that anyone can instantly throw up an online petition, they mean even less. They're a dime a dozen. Heck, it's a surprise if the targets are even *aware* of the petition against them, let alone care. And if they ARE aware, they know that most the signatures represent someone who wasn't aware of the issue the minute before clicking the link, and wasn't aware a minute after. Many come with false promises. "We need 125,000 signatures to end Japanese whaling!"

Like prayer, someone else can start a petition calling for the opposite, and probably get the same response. No doubt Breitbart circulates a few petitions.

Sleeping Giants at least *did* something, however small. Something Amazon and the others would notice. I'm not against real activism.

[Vrede too]

Your examples are inappropriate.
The petitions I post request meaningful action by the targets, unlike gas boycott days or lights off for an hour. Plus, those are more calls for collective action rather than true petitions. I don't sign or share clickbait pledges without an identified recipient.
The petitions I post don't request counterproductive actions like the execution of signatories.
I don't post petitions with false promises. They all have theoretically achievable, though admittedly unlikely at times, goals.
Apples and oranges much?

I've never claimed that petitions mean "much", that's a straw man. They're just right for this forum. It's not like I'm ever gonna get y'all to invade Amazon's shareholder meeting.
Sure, "anyone can instantly throw up an online petition", but the filter in part is how many people join in.
"someone else can start a petition calling for the opposite, and probably get the same response," is unsupported speculation. Show us the pro-Breitbart petition to advertisers being circulated and whether it's got 600K signatures. Good luck.
As I said, the petitions themselves aren't the only end point. They are also an intro to the sponsoring group so that one might do something more meaningful. For example, all of you are free to pick up the phone and call the target or send a personal note, instead, which is more effective. You've ducked this point. You can bet that all groups that are taking more concrete steps carry their petition signatures in their back pocket to bolster their work. Plus, the small step of signing is a stake in the issue, one that makes further action or making responsible purchasing decisions by the signatory more likely.
I often post victories on a variety of issues that involved petitions. You've got no evidence that the petitions didn't contribute to the result.
It's goofy to claim that petitions are nothing while tweets are "something". They're essentially the same thing except that tweets are often anonymous and usually don't say where the tweeter lives.

You also ducked my implied challenge to enlighten us with what kind of oh so superior activism you're doing instead.

[Vrede too]

Iran Condemns 'Repugnant' US Response To Terror Attacks

“we underscore that states that sponsor terrorism risk falling victim to the evil they promote,” is a disgusting offer of support to anyone that attacks civilians in response to a perceived wrong.

[JTA]

I've decided to boycott bud lite in response to Donald Trump. It's the beer of choice of his base, and I want no part in that.

Plus it's just nasty.

[billy.pilgrim]

March Against Sharia' Planned Across The U.S.

http://www.npr.org/2017/06/10/532254891 ... ss-the-u-s



"Saturday's nationwide "March Against Sharia," sponsored by a group known for aggressively criticizing Islam, has in recent days become a rallying cause for right-wing extremists ..."

"to be held in at least 19 states, are being coordinated by ACT for America, a conservative grassroots organization that calls itself "the NRA of national security."


This Proud Boys group is new to me. I guess just more punks with their silly club names.


wiki says, a "pro-Western fraternal organization" for men who "refuse to apologize for creating the modern world."[4]

"In 2017, McInnes and Kyle Chapman teamed up to help the Proud Boys form a "street fighting" wing of the alt-right called the "Fraternal Order of the Alt-Knights" (FOAK).[8][9]"

[Vrede too]

FOAK them.

Proud Boys:



Nttawwt.

[billy.pilgrim]

FOAK them.

Proud Boys:



Nttawwt.

They also subscribe to "no wanks", which is a rule banning masturbation.[5]

[Vrede too]

That'll never catch on.

[homerfobe]

Hillary and the liberal world hates stuff like this

[homerfobe]

Binky's Banner Reads:
Latest Trump Tweet:
Happy birthday to U.S. ARMY and our soldiers. Thank you for your bravery, sacrifices, & dedication. Proud to be your Commander-in-Chief!
(Liked by 82392 idiots.)

(Hated by about half a dozen Blue Ridge Debate dummfuck snowflakes)

[Vrede too]

Stumbled on a new word to me - whitewing.