Hillary

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Vrede too
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Re: Hillary

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O Really wrote:... Trump got a lot of free press ...
I heard on the news $2 billion worth, am not sure how that was figured.
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O Really
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Re: Hillary

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JTA wrote:I donated to my first ever political campaign yesterday. Twenty bucks to Gary Johnson. I don't necessarily agree with all of his stances, and he doesn't stand a chance of becoming president. I really want to see him in the debates.
Dang, man - that's almost as good an investment as $20 worth of lottery tickets. Almost.

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Re: Hillary

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Vrede too wrote:
O Really wrote:... Trump got a lot of free press ...
I heard on the news $2 billion worth, am not sure how that was figured.
I think it could be that only when comparing the total time he was covered with how much it would have cost to buy that much time. Not exactly comparable, but he still got a lot of coverage.

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Vrede too
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Re: Hillary

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O Really wrote:
JTA wrote:I donated to my first ever political campaign yesterday. Twenty bucks to Gary Johnson. I don't necessarily agree with all of his stances, and he doesn't stand a chance of becoming president. I really want to see him in the debates.
Dang, man - that's almost as good an investment as $20 worth of lottery tickets. Almost.
Not necessarily, as I suggested on the last page - Given their respective war chests and the way the electoral college works, it's possible that $20 given to Gary Johnson helps Hillary more than $20 given to Hillary does.
Last edited by Vrede too on Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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JTA
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Re: Hillary

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Vrede too wrote:
O Really wrote:
JTA wrote:I donated to my first ever political campaign yesterday. Twenty bucks to Gary Johnson. I don't necessarily agree with all of his stances, and he doesn't stand a chance of becoming president. I really want to see him in the debates.
Dang, man - that's almost as good an investment as $20 worth of lottery tickets. Almost.
Not necessarily, as I suggested on the last page - Given their respective war chests and the way the electoral college works, it's possible that $20 given to Gary Johnson helps Hillary more than $20 given to Hillary does.
:lol:
You aren't doing it wrong if no one knows what you are doing.

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Re: Hillary

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O Really wrote:
JTA wrote:I donated to my first ever political campaign yesterday. Twenty bucks to Gary Johnson. I don't necessarily agree with all of his stances, and he doesn't stand a chance of becoming president. I really want to see him in the debates.
Dang, man - that's almost as good an investment as $20 worth of lottery tickets. Almost.
If I'm going to waste a vote on Johnson I figured I'd also waste some money on him too. Kind of like dating.
You aren't doing it wrong if no one knows what you are doing.

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Vrede too
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Re: Hillary

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It's your inner feminist possibly helping Hillary, JTA.

More like prostitution than "dating". Give Johnson the money, then Hillary screws you. ;)

By the same token, it's possible that $20 given to Trump during the primaries helped Hillary more than $20 given to Hillary did. :D
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Re: Hillary

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JTA wrote:
O Really wrote:
JTA wrote:I donated to my first ever political campaign yesterday. Twenty bucks to Gary Johnson. I don't necessarily agree with all of his stances, and he doesn't stand a chance of becoming president. I really want to see him in the debates.
Dang, man - that's almost as good an investment as $20 worth of lottery tickets. Almost.
If I'm going to waste a vote on Johnson I figured I'd also waste some money on him too. Kind of like dating.
Careful Johnson doesn't stiff you.

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rstrong
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Re: Hillary

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Vrede too wrote:That's why I posted "physical" heroism. Other kinds are more subjective.
I told a woman to calm down once, so you could say I know what it’s like to survive a near death experience.

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Re: Hillary

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rstrong wrote:I told a woman to calm down once, so you could say I know what it’s like to survive a near death experience.
It's only heroism if you do it a second time.
O Really wrote:
JTA wrote:If I'm going to waste a vote on Johnson I figured I'd also waste some money on him too. Kind of like dating.
Careful Johnson doesn't stiff you.
Image
ImageImage
Last edited by Vrede too on Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hillary

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Vrede too wrote:
rstrong wrote:I told a woman to calm down once, so you could say I know what it’s like to survive a near death experience.
It's only heroism if you do it a second time.
Also: If you ask a woman who is eating ice cream straight from the carton how she’s doing.

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Re: Hillary

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Catching up.

So far, understanding that we'll never be unanimous on each item, the list includes:

She's better than Trump (or any other Republican). It really doesn't matter if she's the Devil's concubine or if she's the reincarnation of Tammany Hall. :D
Really no worse than Colin Powell and really, really no worse than Jeb! :P
Tried to get us universal healthcare 23 years ago, and took a truckload of unwarranted personal heat for it.
Has always kept fighting effectively no matter what was thrown at her.
Once having left Arkansas she never went back ("probably" a positive for her and Arkansas).
Hillary has the most directly applicable professional experience of most any other Presidential candidate, ever. And in all those jobs, she has done a competent job.
Building relationships and bridges. Hillary understands that.
Will try to overturn Citizens United and increase transparency in campaign funding.
Corrupt but competent, not slimy and shoddy. :D
Good DNC speaker lineup.
Fluent in Spanish VP pick.
Long time children's advocate.
Most progressive Dem Platform ever.
The Supreme Court!!!
Would be our 1st female Head of State, thus catching us up with several Muslim nations.
Mythological.
Better option for having access to all US nuclear weapons.
Looked great for her DNC speech, better than 1960 Nixon. :D
Doesn't look good on the honesty front except when you stand her next to ANYONE in the 2016 or 2012 Republican clown cars. And probably a few election cycles before that. (rstrong)
Crusader for the downtrodden. (O Really)
Spent a long time advocating for women's rights, access to healthcare and more.... a successful woman ... she's set a good example in that regard. (rstrong)
A highly successful person who is capable of being President of the United States ... setting an example for anyone who cares to about it that hard work and persistence toward a goal can sometimes pay off - even against big odds. (O Really)
Heroic. (me)
Always be yourself! Unless you can be a goat, then always be a goat.
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Re: Hillary

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Important to Republicans: She's the "family values" candidate. Never divorced, no affairs, didn't walk away from her marriage when her husband had an affair, no accusations of rape or sexual harassment.

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Vrede too
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Re: Hillary

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JTA wrote:I donated to my first ever political campaign yesterday. Twenty bucks to Gary Johnson. I don't necessarily agree with all of his stances, and he doesn't stand a chance of becoming president. I really want to see him in the debates.
I agree with JTA. In fact, Johnson's participation may be one of the more interesting developments in a campaign between two flawed candidates where the outcome seems nearly certain. So, understanding that -
Vrede too wrote:... Given their respective war chests and the way the electoral college works, it's possible that $20 given to Gary Johnson helps Hillary more than $20 given to Hillary does.
- I'm seeing JTA's $20 and raising him $20.
Always be yourself! Unless you can be a goat, then always be a goat.
-- the interweb, paraphrased
1312. ETTD.

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Vrede too
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Re: Hillary

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rstrong wrote:Important to Republicans: She's the "family values" candidate. Never divorced, no affairs, didn't walk away from her marriage when her husband had an affair, no accusations of rape or sexual harassment.
To be accurate, she has been accused of enabling Bill's alleged rape and sexual harassment after the fact by attacking some of the accusers. Then, there are various wingnutty murder accusations. But, it's not up to me to edit this non-consensus compilation.

So far, understanding that we'll never be unanimous on each item, the list includes:

She's better than Trump (or any other Republican). It really doesn't matter if she's the Devil's concubine or if she's the reincarnation of Tammany Hall. :D
Really no worse than Colin Powell and really, really no worse than Jeb! :P
Tried to get us universal healthcare 23 years ago, and took a truckload of unwarranted personal heat for it.
Has always kept fighting effectively no matter what was thrown at her.
Once having left Arkansas she never went back ("probably" a positive for her and Arkansas).
Hillary has the most directly applicable professional experience of most any other Presidential candidate, ever. And in all those jobs, she has done a competent job.
Building relationships and bridges. Hillary understands that.
Will try to overturn Citizens United and increase transparency in campaign funding.
Corrupt but competent, not slimy and shoddy. :D
Good DNC speaker lineup.
Fluent in Spanish VP pick.
Long time children's advocate.
Most progressive Dem Platform ever.
The Supreme Court!!!
Would be our 1st female Head of State, thus catching us up with several Muslim nations.
Mythological.
Better option for having access to all US nuclear weapons.
Looked great for her DNC speech, better than 1960 Nixon. :D
Doesn't look good on the honesty front except when you stand her next to ANYONE in the 2016 or 2012 Republican clown cars. And probably a few election cycles before that.
Crusader for the downtrodden.
Spent a long time advocating for women's rights, access to healthcare and more.... a successful woman ... she's set a good example in that regard.
A highly successful person who is capable of being President of the United States ... setting an example for anyone who cares to about it that hard work and persistence toward a goal can sometimes pay off - even against big odds.
Heroic.
She's the "family values" candidate. Never divorced, no affairs, didn't walk away from her marriage when her husband had an affair, no accusations of rape or sexual harassment.
Always be yourself! Unless you can be a goat, then always be a goat.
-- the interweb, paraphrased
1312. ETTD.

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O Really
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Re: Hillary

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Vrede too wrote: campaign between two flawed candidates ....
Using the term "two flawed candidates" implies an equivalency that simply isn't there. Sure, Hillary has picked up (more than) her share of haters and detractors over the years, but nobody could rationally argue that her "flaws" are anywhere close to the same level as Trump's. Most of her haters oppose her ideology, philosophy, or policies, and use "lying and corruption" as hammers to beat her with. Some just don't like an uppity female anymore than they like an uppity blackish guy. But from before Whitewater and on, it's just finding any excuse to bash her, without regard to anything actually awful she might have done. Trump, on the other hand, is flawed not so much because of past actions or hyperbole, but because of what he himself says and does. Even if you like him, he's a total incompetent in running a national campaign. He gets off track easily, spends time attacking people not in the race, and when he does attack Hillary, it's not on factual grounds. He totally overlooked the latest batch of "scandalous" emails and campaigned in Connecticut. Connecticut, ferpetesake! That's incompetent.

Besides, name a candidate who couldn't be seen as "flawed" during or before a campaign. Let's see. Staying with most of our lifetimes, there's JFK, who some at the time considered flawed because he was Catholic and had a family issue involved in crime. There's Nixon, no explanation necessary. Johnson? Goldwater? No flaws there :roll: Humphrey, McGovern, Dukakis, Carter, Dole, Reagan...anybody want to argue they're better than Hillary? Hell, Bush the Elder was probably the least flawed of the bunch. Bush the Younger certainly had warts. Kerry? Gore? Mr. Roboto? No flaws there. :roll:

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Vrede too
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Re: Hillary

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O Really wrote:Using the term "two flawed candidates" implies an equivalency that simply isn't there....

:roll: No, it doesn't.

Besides, name a candidate who couldn't be seen as "flawed" during or before a campaign....

We have the candidates with the 2nd (Hillary) and 1st (Trump) highest negative ratings in decades or longer, and probably the lowest satisfaction with the combined choices in an equally long time. Clearly, Americans see them as both flawed even if rational people see Hillary as far less flawed than Trump.
Gary Johnson Is Pulling In More Money Than Ever

Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson may be trailing Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton in fundraising, but his August numbers show a dramatic uptick in third party interest since he ran for president in 2012.

According to a release by the campaign, Johnson raised more than $2.9 million online in the first two weeks of August. The haul came from 90,000 people contributing an average of $32.

That’s a marked change from 2012, when Johnson ran as a Libertarian against Barack Obama and Mitt Romney. That year he raised just $356,406 in August, Politico reports, and he raised a total of $2,317,996 over the course of the campaign, according to Center For Responsive Politics. In 15 days this month, Johnson bested his entire fundraising amount from 2012....

One reason Americans may be about $2 million more open to Johnson this August is that he’s running against two historically unpopular major party candidates. In a recent NBC News/SurveyMonkey poll, 59% of respondents had unfavorable views of Clinton, and 64% of respondents had unfavorable views of Trump. (In the same poll, 11% of voters said that if the election were held today, they would vote for Johnson.) ...
Whether one thinks that Hillary deserves to be called a flawed person or not, she is undeniably a flawed candidate. How many of the Dem candidates you list would only have been ahead of Trump by an average of 6.2%?
Last edited by Vrede too on Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Always be yourself! Unless you can be a goat, then always be a goat.
-- the interweb, paraphrased
1312. ETTD.

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rstrong
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Re: Hillary

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O Really wrote:He gets off track easily, spends time attacking people not in the race, and when he does attack Hillary, it's not on factual grounds.
What he's doing is "machine learning." He'll make a bunch of random claims at a rally. Whatever gets the most cheers he runs with, doubling down on the claim and pushing it to further extremes as the cheering increases. That becomes "policy", and gets reported.

Real "machine learning" systems can fake intelligence, if only believable for a short while. But it can skew towards the first thing that gets results rather than better alternatives. And as the internet has demonstrated...

Marketwatch: Microsoft pulls plug after chat robot slings slurs, rips Obama and denies Holocaust

...it can easily be manipulated by feeding it selected information. Which is how you get Presidential candidate Trump on TV reassuring people about his penis size in response to a comment about his hands.

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O Really
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Re: Hillary

Unread post by O Really »

Vrede too wrote:
O Really wrote:Using the term "two flawed candidates" implies an equivalency that simply isn't there....

:roll: No, it doesn't.

Admittedly popularity is important, and low public opinion is a "flaw" in a candidate. But I still say discussing them together as "two flawed candidates" is like saying that the hated New England and Cleveland are both "flawed teams" in their race for the Super Bowl. Sure, the Pats might have a couple of spots to fill, but Cleveland is... um Cleveland.

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Vrede too
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Re: Hillary

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Buffalo and Cleveland :P , with them being the only two teams in the race after all others in the league were disqualified.

So far, understanding that we'll never be unanimous on each item, the list includes:

She's better than Trump (or any other Republican). It really doesn't matter if she's the Devil's concubine or if she's the reincarnation of Tammany Hall. :D
Really no worse than Colin Powell and really, really no worse than Jeb! :P
Tried to get us universal healthcare 23 years ago, and took a truckload of unwarranted personal heat for it.
Has always kept fighting effectively no matter what was thrown at her.
Once having left Arkansas she never went back ("probably" a positive for her and Arkansas).
Hillary has the most directly applicable professional experience of most any other Presidential candidate, ever. And in all those jobs, she has done a competent job.
Building relationships and bridges. Hillary understands that.
Will try to overturn Citizens United and increase transparency in campaign funding.
Corrupt but competent, not slimy and shoddy. :D
Good DNC speaker lineup.
Fluent in Spanish VP pick.
Long time children's advocate.
Most progressive Dem Platform ever.
The Supreme Court!!!
Would be our 1st female Head of State, thus catching us up with several Muslim nations.
Mythological.
Better option for having access to all US nuclear weapons.
Looked great for her DNC speech, better than 1960 Nixon. :D
Doesn't look good on the honesty front except when you stand her next to ANYONE in the 2016 or 2012 Republican clown cars. And probably a few election cycles before that.
Crusader for the downtrodden.
Spent a long time advocating for women's rights, access to healthcare and more.... a successful woman ... she's set a good example in that regard.
A highly successful person who is capable of being President of the United States ... setting an example for anyone who cares to about it that hard work and persistence toward a goal can sometimes pay off - even against big odds.
Heroic.
She's the "family values" candidate. Never divorced, no affairs, didn't walk away from her marriage when her husband had an affair, no accusations of rape or sexual harassment.
Like "the hated New England (Patriots)" or like the mediocre Buffalo Bills, both of which are better than the Cleveland Browns.
Last edited by Vrede too on Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Always be yourself! Unless you can be a goat, then always be a goat.
-- the interweb, paraphrased
1312. ETTD.

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