Single hurricane thread

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Vrede too
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Re: Single hurricane thread

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O Really wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:44 am
So I've seen a lot of pictures and articles about Florence, and some of them left me wondering - what were these people thinking?
Yeah, I know - sometimes you're trapped in deep water because it's the only way out. Sometimes you had reason to believe the water wouldn't rise that high...whatever. But the woman who lost her 1-year old drove around the fricking barrier! And why are so many people caught totally unprepared? Hurricanes give you lots of warning, in addition to being more prevalent in particular areas anyway.

Here's what we did - probably billy.p, too:
1. Realize that it's a very real possibility that you're going to get some severe storms and/or hurricanes from June to November. Gonna happen. Maybe severe, maybe light, but you're gonna get them.

2. Had plywood covers cut for each window/door; marked for where they go, with screwholes drilled, screws inserted, and a drill/screwdriver stored with them. Took less than an hour to get them all installed.

3. As regular maintenance, cut down weak/overhanging tree branches, palm fronds, etc.

4. Make sure all drainage routes from the gutters stay clear.

5. Fill up vehicle gas regularly, never lower than a half. Store several jerry-cans in the garage.

6. Get a generator, and all the cords necessary to run your stuff. Run it frequently enough to keep it in condition and be very comfortable using it. If I was doing it over, I'd probably get a larger built-in version, but the 5000-version we had worked fine.

7. Keep a regular stock of food/water necessities. Rotate it from time to time, but keep enough to avoid starving or significant misery for a week.

8. When the technology became available, we digitized everything we might need - documents, etc. We also digitized old photos.

9. Store valuable jewelry and some cash in an easy to grab and go container.

10. Keep a "bug-out" bag for each family member, with necessary supplies, clothing, food for a few days, along with emergency tools - flashlight, knife, etc.

11. If you're going to leave, leave ahead of the crowd.

None of this is particularly expensive or out of the ability of most anybody who lives in a hurricane area. IMNVHO, unless you just moved in last week, there really isn't any excuse for being at Home Depot buying plywood two days before the storm. There really isn't any reason why you'd have to be in a gas line the day after the storm. There are few reasons why you'd need to have food brought in by the national guard.
TV news said that she said the barriers had been partially pushed aside, and I think it was nighttime. Maybe she did too much wishful thinking based on that, but it's a little more understandable than with an intact barricade.

I agree with you for those in the coastal wind/storm surge zones, and I have some of those practices in place even though the worst that's ever gonna happen here is loss of elec./heat for a few days in an ice storm. I credit part of that to 30 years of living in the mountain West. "Disasters" happened several times each winter, not once every few years.

However, this was unprecedented Harvey-Houston scale rainfall - over 3 feet in some places. I can understand how some weren't ready for that. For example, there never was an evacuation order for Wilmington's 120K people, yet it was or still is completely surrounded by impassable water.

Edit:
It would be interesting to know what percentage of the people have needed the help we've seen on the news. Of course that's going to get covered and major resources are going to be expended providing the assistance, but if it's, say, 5% of the residents or less, maybe people are never gonna be better than that, for whatever reasons.
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Re: Single hurricane thread

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In addition to O really's list are all the things you can do for after the storm.

Instead of fueling the disaster capitalism of halliburton's MREs and Bud's water

Stock up canned goods, water, charcoal, propane, freeze blocks of water, etc.


And above all, when the frozen food starts to thaw - sponsor a block pot luck party - gumbo for all


Be sure to invite the cleanup and utility workers


The MRE thing brothers me. All that time and money and waiting in line for downright awful packaged food
when most would have a difficult time eating what's in their cabinet and frig in less than a week
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Re: Single hurricane thread

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Vrede too wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:17 am

TV news said that she said the barriers had been partially pushed aside, and I think it was nighttime. Maybe she did too much wishful thinking based on that, but it's a little more understandable than with an intact barricade.

...

However, this was unprecedented Harvey-Houston scale rainfall - over 3 feet in some places. I can understand how some weren't ready for that. For example, there never was an evacuation order for Wilmington's 120K people, yet it was or still is completely surrounded by impassable water.

Nope. Driving your car into moving flood water isn't acceptable, barricade or no, unless it's the absolutely only possible way out and the water's rising behind you.

I understand how many could be caught by the massive flooding, particularly if you're a mile away from the river on some highish ground. But still - if you live in a storm-prone area, most of the things I listed and billy.p's additions are just garden-variety precautions - even if you don't really expect your house to ever be underwater. Other shit happens, too.

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Re: Single hurricane thread

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Re: Single hurricane thread

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O Really wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:43 am
Nope. Driving your car into moving flood water isn't acceptable, barricade or no, unless it's the absolutely only possible way out and the water's rising behind you.

I agree that she screwed up, regardless, but nighttime may have made it more difficult to tell that it was moving flood water.

I understand how many could be caught by the massive flooding, particularly if you're a mile away from the river on some highish ground. But still - if you live in a storm-prone area, most of the things I listed and billy.p's additions are just garden-variety precautions - even if you don't really expect your house to ever be underwater. Other shit happens, too.

Agreed, and I do the same.
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Re: Single hurricane thread

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Vrede too wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:07 pm
... If you want to help out central and eastern NC, some ideas are:
North Carolina Disaster Relief Fund - Roy Cooper is a good Gov., I trust the management.
https://governor.nc.gov/donate-florence-recovery
Brother Wolf Animal Rescue
https://www.bwar.org/
Are you more progressive than that?
A Just Florence Recovery
https://anothergulf.com/a-just-florence-recovery/
A couple more suggestions from the NC Conservation Network, after they repeat linking the North Carolina Disaster Relief Fund:
Food Bank of Central & Eastern NC: http://www.foodbankcenc.org
NC Community Foundation: http://www.nccommunityfoundation.org/se ... ter-relief
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Re: Single hurricane thread

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A Hurricane’s Aftermath
Florence exposes environmental threats, inequality


On September 14, Hurricane Florence made landfall on the North Carolina coast. The record breaking storm left in its wake a slew of concerns ranging from contamination spreading in flood waters which are still rising nearly a week after landfall to the social disparity of the people it impacted.

North Carolina is home to more than 150 million tons of coal ash and the waste products from 830 million chickens, 32.5 million turkeys and almost 9 million swine, as well as dozens of other toxic sites and landfills. Due to the hurricane’s path, slow moving nature and unprecedented rains, nearly a third of the state was impacted by record flooding — even areas far inland.

The disaster disproportionately impacted poor communities across the state where homes are cheaper due in part to their threat of flood risk and distance from major employment opportunities....

Image
A ring of coal ash coats a tree and coagulates in the background from Hurricane Florence floodwaters inundating the H.F. Lee coal plant

Image
A CAFO (concentrated animal feeding operation) in eastern North Carolina surrounded by Hurricane Floyd floodwaters.

Image
A hog waste lagoon breached by Hurricane Floyd floodwaters.

Image
A breach in the coal ash landfill at the the L.V. Sutton Power Station outside Wilmington.

... These hog lagoon and coal ash spills pose significant threats to public health through water contamination. According to Dr. Kim Lyerly of Duke University, “if there’s a new normal” of more intense storms, people may need to start incorporating the possible health effects of the resulting spills — “not just basements being flooded and replacing drywall, but exposure to contaminants in our community.”
Tell NC DEQ: Protect our groundwater from coal ash pollution
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Re: Single hurricane thread

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Vrede too wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:40 pm
A Hurricane’s Aftermath
Florence exposes environmental threats, inequality


... These hog lagoon and coal ash spills pose significant threats to public health through water contamination. According to Dr. Kim Lyerly of Duke University, “if there’s a new normal” of more intense storms, people may need to start incorporating the possible health effects of the resulting spills — “not just basements being flooded and replacing drywall, but exposure to contaminants in our community.”
Vrede's posted link came from:

Front Porch Blog

A Hurricane’s Aftermath
FLORENCE EXPOSES ENVIRONMENTAL THREATS, INEQUALITY
Image

I'm guessing the rocking chairs represent real life arm-chair commentaries blogs, (as in arm-chair quarterbacking)
There's Mama's arm-chair, baby's arm-chair, and daddy's arm-chair! :lol: :lol:


While the photos are sad, the incidents in the photos are acts of nature; not man's carelessness. Each scenario was in lawful compliance before the hurricane; so for the authors to make the business owners look bad by their "The disaster disproportionately impacted poor communities across the state where homes are cheaper due in part to their threat of flood risk and distance from major employment opportunities." is self-righteous b.s.

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Re: Single hurricane thread

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Leo Lyons wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:25 pm
Vrede's posted link came from:
Front Porch Blog
A Hurricane’s Aftermath
FLORENCE EXPOSES ENVIRONMENTAL THREATS, INEQUALITY

I'm guessing the rocking chairs represent real life arm-chair commentaries blogs, (as in arm-chair quarterbacking)
There's Mama's arm-chair, baby's arm-chair, and daddy's arm-chair! :lol: :lol:


The quoted link is from Appalachian Voices' North Carolina Program Manager. No telling why Leo Lyons is so butthurt by it that he stupidly lies about what anybody can see for themselves.

While the photos are sad, the incidents in the photos are acts of nature;

God's coal ash and pig shit?

not man's carelessness.

Ummm, when the same thing happened just 2 years ago and Appalachian Voices and others have been calling for better management of coal ash and CAFOs, it IS human greed and indifference that allows it to happen again.

Each scenario was in lawful compliance before the hurricane;

Thanks for mentioning that, though you actually have no idea whether it's really true.
Subject: A Hurricane’s Aftermath
From: (Vrede too)
Date: Sat, September 22, 2018 4:58 pm
To: "Rep. Chuck McGrady" <chuck.mcgrady@ncleg.net>, "Sen. Chuck Edwards" <chuck.edwards@ncleg.net>
Cc: info@roycooper.com

A Hurricane’s Aftermath
Florence exposes environmental threats, inequality
http://appvoices.org/2018/09/21/hurrica ... nequality/

You have let us down.

(Vrede too)
so for the authors to make the business owners look bad

Massive spills don't "make the business owners look bad"? Do tell.

by their "The disaster disproportionately impacted poor communities across the state where homes are cheaper due in part to their threat of flood risk and distance from major employment opportunities." is self-righteous b.s.

People working to stop racist, classist polluters from polluting have every reason to be self-righteous, but "b.s." is yet another lie.
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Re: Single hurricane thread

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Vrede too wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:55 pm

The quoted link is from Appalachian Voices' North Carolina Program Manager.
No telling why Leo Lyons is so butthurt by it that he stupidly lies about what anybody can see for themselves.
I saw it's origin; I also saw the title of the "blog". No lie there, despite being stupidly accused.

God's coal ash and pig shit?
Everything on this earth came FROM the earth; You've not figured that out?

Ummm, when the same thing happened just 2 years ago and Appalachian Voices and others have been calling for better management of coal ash and CAFOs, it IS human greed and indifference that allows it to happen again.
From your Appalachian Voices link:
"The State is drafting a new set of coal ash rules to govern the way coal ash is handled in North Carolina and we need your help to make sure the rules benefit the people of North Carolina and not Duke Energy." Does AppVo believe they're a better monitor of Duke Energy than the state?



Leo Lyons: Each scenario was in lawful compliance before the hurricane;
Thanks for mentioning that, though you actually have no idea whether it's really true.
And you actually have no idea whether it's really not true. They had to be in compliance; or your state would have shut them down.

Massive spills don't "make the business owners look bad"? Do tell.
Through carelessness, yes. Each scenario was in lawful compliance before the hurricane.

Leo Lyons: by their (AppVo) "The disaster disproportionately impacted poor communities across the state where homes are cheaper due in part to their threat of flood risk and distance from major employment opportunities." is self-righteous b.s.

People working to stop racist, classist polluters from polluting have every reason to be self-righteous, but "b.s." is yet another lie.
Thank you! You pointed out the intent of my quote of AppVo; they're playing the race card blaming business owners and a hurricane's wrath for the the plight of Black and low-income homeowners!

You love that word "lie" don't you?

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Re: Single hurricane thread

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A while ago, it was "in legal compliance" to dump/bury used motor oil. That didn't make it not harmful nor did it make it less negligent in care for the environment. Once rivers provided a good place to dump raw sewage, used cooking oil, chemical residue, and enemies wearing concrete boots, most of which was "in legal compliance" at the time. But people knew the water was polluted. A clean Cuyahoga River wouldn't burn. They knew those dumping were ruining their environment. It was "in legal compliance" to vent smokestacks all over Pittsburgh, but it was obvious to all that it was dangerous.

So I'm not impressed that the pig farmers, protected by years of purchasing their own legislators, were "in legal compliance" with what regulations are left. I mean seriously - huge vats of pig shit in areas with little natural terrain - what could possibly go wrong?

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Re: Single hurricane thread

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O Really wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:35 am
A while ago, it was "in legal compliance" to dump/bury used motor oil. That didn't make it not harmful nor did it make it less negligent in care for the environment. Once rivers provided a good place to dump raw sewage, used cooking oil, chemical residue, and enemies wearing concrete boots, most of which was "in legal compliance" at the time. But people knew the water was polluted. A clean Cuyahoga River wouldn't burn. They knew those dumping were ruining their environment. It was "in legal compliance" to vent smokestacks all over Pittsburgh, but it was obvious to all that it was dangerous.

So I'm not impressed that the pig farmers, protected by years of purchasing their own legislators, were "in legal compliance" with what regulations are left. I mean seriously - huge vats of pig shit in areas with little natural terrain - what could possibly go wrong?
Too bad we sort of lost Newman as a popular protest artist due to the public's misunderstanding of his Short People song.


There's a red moon rising
On the Cuyahoga River
Rolling into Cleveland to the lake
There's a red moon rising
On the Cuyahoga River
Rolling into Cleveland to the lake
There's an oil barge winding
Down the Cuyahoga River
Rolling into Cleveland to the lake
There's an oil barge winding
Down the Cuyahoga River
Rolling into Cleveland to the lake
Cleveland city of light city of magic
Cleveland city of light you're calling me
Cleveland, even now I can remember
Cause the Cuyahoga River
Goes smokin' through my dreams
Burn on, big river, burn on
Burn on, big river, burn on
Now the Lord can make you tumble
And the Lord can make you turn
And the Lord can make you overflow
But the Lord can't make you burn
Burn on, big river, burn on
Burn on, big river, burn on


Songwriter: Randy Newman



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Re: Single hurricane thread

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O Really wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:35 am
... So I'm not impressed that the pig farmers, protected by years of purchasing their own legislators, were "in legal compliance" with what regulations are left. I mean seriously - huge vats of pig shit in areas with little natural terrain - what could possibly go wrong?
Thanks, the same applies to Duke an their long term ownership of the Leg.

Here is discussion of CAFOs writing their own laws:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1060&p=73724&hilit=hog+farm#p73724
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1060&p=74057&hilit=cafo#p74057
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1060&p=74136&hilit=cafo#p74136
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1060&p=74398&hilit=cafo#p74398
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21&p=74399&hilit=cafo#p74399

Even so, multiple juries have been finding that CAFOs routinely break existing law, so Leo Lyons' argument collapses entirely.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1060&p=84672&hilit=hog+farm#p84672
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1060&p=85857&hilit=hog+farm#p85857

Similarly, Duke Energy has a well known track record of breaking laws regulating its coal ash:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1078&p=35794&hilit= ... ash#p35794
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1078&p=35842&hilit= ... ash#p35842
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1078&p=55130&hilit= ... ash#p55130
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1078&p=63067&hilit= ... ash#p63067
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1078&p=87095&hilit= ... ash#p87095

"Each scenario was in lawful compliance before the hurricane," is a joke.
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Re: Single hurricane thread

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Swollen NC rivers swamp dumps, raising water pollution fears

... Environmentalists have warned for decades that Duke's coal ash ponds were vulnerable to severe storms and could pose a threat to drinking water supplies and public safety.

"Disposing of coal ash close to waterways is hazardous, and Duke Energy compounds the problem by leaving most of its ash in primitive unlined pits filled with water," said Frank Holleman, a senior attorney at the Southern Environmental Law Center.

"In this instance, it appears that Duke Energy has not done enough to ensure that its new Wilmington landfill safely stores coal ash. After this storm, we hope that Duke Energy will commit itself to removing its ash from all its unlined waterfront pits and, if it refuses, that the state of North Carolina will require it to remove the ash from these unlined pits."
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Re: Single hurricane thread

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Re: Single hurricane thread

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Everyone has heard of the 1900 Great Galveston hurricane that caused between 6,000 and 12,000 fatalities in the United States. I just learned on the Weather Channel about the 1928 Okeechobee hurricane, "Florida's Forgotten Hurricane", the 2nd deadliest US hurricane.
... When the worst of the storm crossed the lake, the south-blowing wind caused a storm surge to overflow the small dike that had been built at the south end of the lake. The resulting flood covered an area of hundreds of square miles with water that in some places was over 20 ft (6 m) deep. Houses were floated off of their foundations and dashed to pieces against any obstacle they encountered. Most survivors and bodies were washed out into the Everglades where many of the bodies were never found....

Floodwaters persisted for several weeks, greatly impeding attempts to clean up the devastation. Burial services were quickly overwhelmed, and many of the bodies were placed into mass graves. Around 75% of the fatalities were migrant farm workers, making identification of both dead and missing bodies very difficult; as a result of this, the count of the dead is not very accurate.... However, in 2003 the U.S. death count was revised to "at least" 2,500, making the Okeechobee hurricane one of the deadliest natural disasters in United States history....
Naturally, most of the migrant farm workers were black.
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Re: Single hurricane thread

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The Hog Sh*t Floodwater Of Hurricane Florence Is No Accident
The damage of Hurricane Florence was multiplied because of the decisions made for decades about factory farms and climate change. Will America learn this time?


... Our Home Is Likely Steeping In Hog Sh*t

It’s also not just water in our home and thousands of others throughout the region. Hundreds of factory farms are located in the floodplain. Many of these are hog farms which store hog waste in open-air lagoons. The North Carolina Department of Environmental Quality reports that more than 100 of these swine waste lagoons were damaged, flooded or in danger of flooding. At least 32 have discharged hog waste into the floodwaters and downstream communities. Environmental groups also reported two total failures of lagoons that released an estimated 7.3 million gallons of hog waste into tributaries of two rivers, including one which flows into the Black River, upstream of my home.

If you’ve never considered what it feels like to know that hog sh*t-laden floodwater is sloshing around in your kitchen or your bedroom, please take a moment to do that now — this is the reality now facing thousands of people across North Carolina. It’s an unacceptable violation, and one that has been forced upon so many of us by decades of terrible policy that have allowed corporations like Smithfield to operate in ways that radically undermine common sense — and basic human decency....
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Re: Single hurricane thread

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Vrede too wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:01 pm
Naturally, most of the migrant farm workers were black.
I didn't read where that distinction was made; migrants or race. Source?
Vrede too is known for pulling sensationalized facts out of his.... book of Vrede's facts. :wtf: :shock: :lol:

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Re: Single hurricane thread

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Vrede too wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:01 pm
Everyone has heard of the 1900 Great Galveston hurricane that caused between 6,000 and 12,000 fatalities in the United States. I just learned on the Weather Channel about the 1928 Okeechobee hurricane, "Florida's Forgotten Hurricane", the 2nd deadliest US hurricane.
... When the worst of the storm crossed the lake, the south-blowing wind caused a storm surge to overflow the small dike that had been built at the south end of the lake. The resulting flood covered an area of hundreds of square miles with water that in some places was over 20 ft (6 m) deep. Houses were floated off of their foundations and dashed to pieces against any obstacle they encountered. Most survivors and bodies were washed out into the Everglades where many of the bodies were never found....

Floodwaters persisted for several weeks, greatly impeding attempts to clean up the devastation. Burial services were quickly overwhelmed, and many of the bodies were placed into mass graves. Around 75% of the fatalities were migrant farm workers, making identification of both dead and missing bodies very difficult; as a result of this, the count of the dead is not very accurate.... However, in 2003 the U.S. death count was revised to "at least" 2,500, making the Okeechobee hurricane one of the deadliest natural disasters in United States history....
Naturally, most of the migrant farm workers were black.

My ex in-laws family was there for the Okeechobee flood. They said that most of the deaths were after the storm. According to them, and I think also in the book The River of Grass, the storm winds pushed the water out of the lake and locals were trapped in the lake bed with wagons collecting fish when the waters started refilling the lake.
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Re: Single hurricane thread

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Leo Lyons wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:35 am
Vrede too wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:01 pm
Naturally, most of the migrant farm workers were black.
I didn't read where that distinction was made; migrants or race. Source?
Vrede too is known for pulling sensationalized facts out of his.... book of Vrede's facts. :wtf: :shock: :lol:
Project much? As I quoted:
Vrede too wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:01 pm
... Around 75% of the fatalities were migrant farm workers, making identification of both dead and missing bodies very difficult; as a result of this, the count of the dead is not very accurate....
Comprehend much?

As for their being mostly black, I listed 2 sources for my post - Wiki, which I quoted, AND:
Vrede too wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:01 pm
Everyone has heard of the 1900 Great Galveston hurricane that caused between 6,000 and 12,000 fatalities in the United States. I just learned on the Weather Channel about the 1928 Okeechobee hurricane, "Florida's Forgotten Hurricane", the 2nd deadliest US hurricane.
Pay attention. If you wish to send a stern note to the Weather Channel, be my guest.

Plus, it doesn't take a history professor, or even someone with half a brain to know that most migrant farm workers in 1928, in the South, were black.

It's always a scream when your desperate and obsessive attacks on me fail so spectacularly.
Last edited by Vrede too on Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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