Gun Legislation

[Leo Lyons]

But overall, I don't think there's any real doubt that a beaten kid is more likely to turn into an adult abuser than one treated more humanely.

Agreed if beaten or abused. Spanked, whipped--no; not in every case. The one thing missing here is the child's frame of mind itself. Mental issues determine how the kid will progress in life. The vast majority of adults in this country endured spankings, whippings, and beatings/abuse, and like you said, grew up into responsible adults. Not every case of whipping is abuse.

[Leo Lyons]

Proverbs 13:24: "He who spares the rod hates the child."
Cause the bible told ya so, right leo?

Yep, the Bible says so, but more correctly:
"He who spares his rod hates his son, but he who loves him disciplines him promptly."
Is that too hard for you to understand billydot? I'm not a Bible thumper, but I understand it's meaning.

[billy.pilgrim]

Proverbs 13:24: "He who spares the rod hates the child."
Cause the bible told ya so, right leo?

Yep, the Bible says so, but more correctly:
"He who spares his rod hates his son, but he who loves him disciplines him promptly."
Is that too hard for you to understand billydot? I'm not a Bible thumper, but I understand it's meaning.

Yep, the old sheep hearders book is all on point about disciplining kids, wives and slaves. Lots of real honest to goodness 21st century rules for barbarians.

Lennon
"They hurt you at home and they hit you at school
They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool
Till you're so fucking crazy you can't follow their rules"


Now go kick your dog leo. He'll love you for it.

[Leo Lyons]

Yep, the old sheep hearders book is all on point about disciplining kids, wives and slaves. Lots of real honest to goodness 21st century rules for barbarians.
You got that right. This century has seen the rise of barbarians; we're regressing, not progressing. Perhaps them "old sheep herders" knew more than what you give them credit for.

Lennon
"They hurt you at home and they hit you at school
They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool
Till you're so fucking crazy you can't follow their rules"
Great words of wisdom from a glue-sniffing, dope-snorting, moron.

Now go kick your dog leo. He'll love you for it.
Umm, nope. I've picked on Vrede enough. I'll be nice to him the rest of the week. Maybe.

[Whack9]

Some people just like beating kids and killing adults, it doesn't have to make any objective sense.
Some people are absolutely brain dead too. They grow up to be activists and outright assholes.

I don't think you can beat morality into someone. Well, I guess you can, but I wouldn't call fear of retribution a good form of ethics. Teaching empathy seems much more desirable.
You can't. Even the basest of the animal kingdom learn by watching. They learn right from wrong, where the danger is, what not to put in their mouth, and lastly, who garners respect.

I don't know anything about kids so how you'd go about teaching them right and wrong is beyond me. If I had a kid, I think I'd try to teach them to be empathetic first and foremost.
That's a hard one. I don't know your age, but when I was growing up, Dad worked full time, Mom worked part time; whereas today both parents (if there are two) don't have time to teach ethics, or hardly anything else for that matter. Used to be, the school teacher could blend ethics into their civics classes, but now it's all computers and ass-kissing.

We got whipped a few times as kids, but it was really rare. My parents would instead usually just guilt me and my siblings into feeling real bad when we did something wrong, like we betrayed their trust and let them down.

[Vrede too]

Wow, think of how much of the incessant whining about me I've never seen, poor thing.

True, kids "learn by watching" to be violent towards those weaker than them in order to get what they want, including fear as a poor substitute for "respect." Big of you to admit it. Which one of us got through to you? Or was it the pediatricians and EVERY other expert on the topic?

[Leo Lyons]

Wow, think of how much of the incessant whining about me I've never seen, poor thing.
I knew it was coming! I knew it! wah, wah, wah, whining about me, wah wah wah! It's all about you, ain't it?

True, kids "learn by watching" to be violent towards those weaker than them in order to get what they want, including fear as a poor substitute for "respect."
Learning by watching isn't all about violence, you ninny. Is that the only way it was when you were a kid? Poor baby! I bet every every kid on the block was whining about you, weren't they? Was it incessant whining?
So sad you were never taught what "respect" is all about; you have to see it to learn it.

Big of you to admit it. Which one of us got through to you?
One of "us"...?

Or was it the pediatricians and EVERY other expert on the topic?
Which of you "ex-spurts" want the credit?

[Leo Lyons]

We got whipped a few times as kids, but it was really rare. My parents would instead usually just guilt me and my siblings into feeling real bad when we did something wrong, like we betrayed their trust and let them down.

But you did get a few whippings. You seem to be right knowledgeable, learned and intelligent, and I'm guessing since you've not trashed your parents over your whippings, you learned from them and respected their authority; and unlike the "experts" and liberal whiners would insist would happen, you've not turned into a babbling basket case ready to lash out at anyone who dared to instruct or criticize you.

How many times did you tell your parent(s) to shut up, GF themselves, you're not going to do it, or pitch a screaming tantrum when told to do something? I assuming never, but what would have happened if you had? Told to go to your room? "Time out" in the corner? Grounded for X amount of time? Maybe a good old fashioned spanking (whipping)?

[O Really]

Ah, if only real life were so simple.
All's you gotta do is bat the kid up against the wall a couple of times and all behaviour/value/respect issues will be solved. You'd think somebody would start a professional service. Bring your kid to the shop - we'll give them a couple of whacks and send them out ready to be great scholars, well-adjusted productive citizens, good relationships, and rainbows for all.

[Leo Lyons]

Ah, if only real life were so simple.
All's you gotta do is bat the kid up against the wall a couple of times and all behavior/value/respect issues will be solved.
You'd think somebody would start a professional service. Bring your kid to the shop - we'll give them a couple of whacks and send them out ready to be great scholars, well-adjusted productive citizens, good relationships, and rainbows for all.

Well isn't that a co-incidence? Just like legalizing drugs; make 'em legal and all drug overdose deaths and crime related issues will be solved! Legal users will be ready to be great scholars, well-adjusted productive citizens, in good relationships, and rainbows for all. (no unicorns)

You'd think lawmakers and LEO's would figure that out and stop jailing hard drug offenders! I don't know so much about that 'rainbow' thing though; not everybody wants to wear rainbow-striped coats.

Did you ever get a spanking O Really? (not as an adult; as a kid)

[O Really]

You've actually got a good point, there, Leo. There is no silver bullet for big problems - you can work on them only in parts and no one action is going to fix everything.

And no, I never got hit by a parent. And if I'd ever gotten hit by a school administrator, I'd have pitied the fool when he got visited by my pop.
I guess it's a miracle I'm not in jail for killing, raping, and pillaging the village.

[Leo Lyons]

You've actually got a good point, there, Leo. There is no silver bullet for big problems - you can work on them only in parts and no one action is going to fix everything.
That's what I've been saying; too little, too late. Gun ownership, drug use, and lack of discipline (home or school) has spiraled out of control; there is no handle made that's big enough to grasp hold of any of them now.

And no, I never got hit by a parent.
The old liberal word "hit" again.
Apparently, when Pop spoke, you all listened; and heeded.

And if I'd ever gotten hit by a school administrator, I'd have pitied the fool when he got visited by my pop.
There was a time, such as when I was growing up, school officials didn't need parental consent for corporal punishment; you got your ass busted if you needed it. A parent could get arrested for verbal abuse or intimidating a teacher or principal.

Anyway, therein lies another part of a BIG problem. Kids don't get discipline at home, but if they get in trouble at school, many parent(s) go hauling their ass to the school raising hell with school authorities because their kid is a "good little boy (or girl)", and they're ready to sue.
Let the kid get his/her ass beat by another student because they can't control themselves, the parent(s) haul ass down to the school raising hell because the school isn't instilling discipline among the students or protecting their kids from "bullies"! Oftentimes, the parent(s) don't have sense enough to know their kid was the bully that started the fight. Then some kid gets pissed of and brings a gun to school....

I guess it's a miracle I'm not in jail for killing, raping, and pillaging the village.
Same here. I was spanked, but very little.
As I said, Pop spoke, you listened.

[O Really]

Why is "hit" more of a "liberal word" than "spanked" is a euphemism?

Anyway, I don't understand the thinking of people such as yourself who object to "doing something" just because it doesn't solve everything. Back in the 70's, St Jude hospital in Memphis was largely experimental in treatment. At that time, about 95% of the kids with certain types of leukemia died from it. They took in the "lost causes" and treated them in a new protocol of (oversimplified) lots of chemicals at a time instead of different chemicals progressively. For many (or most for a while) of their kids it was "too little too late". But the protocol started working, and the chemicals got better and kids started going into maintained remission. Now a large majority of kids with that type of leukemia survive. So it took 40 years and not everything worked. Should they have thrown up their hands and say "nothing can be done?"

[Leo Lyons]

Why is "hit" more of a "liberal word" than "spanked" is a euphemism?
The words ''hit" and "beat" conjures up visions of violence; visions that the liberal left want people to see in their minds when discussing punishment that is in reality, corporal and/or disciplinary in nature.

Should they have thrown up their hands and say "nothing can be done?"
Umm...I can't seem to connect the two examples in any similarity.

[O Really]

Why is "hit" more of a "liberal word" than "spanked" is a euphemism?
The words ''hit" and "beat" conjures up visions of violence; visions that the liberal left want people to see in their minds when discussing punishment that is in reality, corporal and/or disciplinary in nature.

Oh, sorry. You wanted a precise term for "corporal and/or disciplinary in nature"? OK. "Flogging" fits.
But no matter what you or I call it, it's still an adult striking a kid with a hand or implement in a manner that causes discomfort and sometimes injury. Despite that many have endured such treatment in the past without (apparent) permanent damage, it is not an effective teaching process. Not effective for animals, not effective for adults, not effective for kids.

[O Really]

So, guy shoots up a club, kills 12 people including a cop. By 2 pm eastern, it's no longer the lead story on MSN, Google News or Yahoo. And as far as I know, there's been no statement from the White House. Maybe somebody has sent thoughts and prayers.

[Vrede too]

It is the lead story on: https://www.yahoo.com/ and https://www.yahoo.com/news/

Je suis Thousand Oaks, CA.

Country music bar, white male 28-year-old Marine combat veteran, handgun with an extended magazine, possible PTSD, unknown motive.

Thanks to the NRA, guns cannot be removed in cases of severe mental illness UNLESS a person has been involuntarily committed or a judge otherwise rules that they can't own, a long, difficult and uncertain process. The GOP Congress and POSPOTUS even made it more difficult to remove guns from vets despite their already having been deemed “mentally incompetent” by the VA.

Guns in America: House Passes Bill to Allow Gun Sales to Mentally Ill Vets

[Vrede too]

What would be assault/battery/violence/hit/beat if done to a nonconsenting adult magically becomes "punishment that is in reality, corporal and/or disciplinary" if done to a defenseless child. Seems the self-serving euphemisms are on the other foot. Ah, the depths that child abusers will sink to in order to rationalize themselves.

It's not "the liberal left". You lie, as usual. Why didn't being beaten as a child knock this chronic dishonesty out of you? It's EVERY psychiatric, psychological and pediatric professional organization, all backed up by undeniable science. Do you really want to argue that only "the liberal left" accepts professionals and science?

[O Really]

It's EVERY psychiatric, psychological and pediatric professional organization, all backed up by undeniable science.

Yeah, but them guys is probably just the highly educated elite that don't know how to find the WalMart.

[Vrede too]

... And as far as I know, there's been no statement from the White House. Maybe somebody has sent thoughts and prayers.

Done. Found:

My thoughts and prayers for everyone who thinks thoughts and prayers are enough.