Gun Legislation

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billy.pilgrim
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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by billy.pilgrim »

Thanks for links. I dropped Norton years ago anyway, but some comfort knowing they are the software of the nra.
Trump: “We had the safest border in the history of our country - or at least recorded history. I guess maybe a thousand years ago it was even better.”

JTA
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Re: Gun Legislation

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O Really wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:39 am
I can't believe what a bunch of effin' tools and fools otherwise reasonable people can get played so easily. The NRA and its robots have totally perfected the technique of distraction and re-pointing the subject. Instead of keeping on topic, way too many people have followed the shiny object of "arm the teachers" and are arguing over whether or not that's a good idea. Good idea or bad, arming the teachers isn't the effin' point. And schools aren't the only places of mass shootings. Pro-regulation people need to learn to deal with red herrings.

Us: "We want military-style firearms, high capacity magazines banned, and more restrictions on purchase of firearms."
Them: "No, we need to arm teachers."
Us: OK, arm the teachers, but "We want military-style firearms, high capacity magazines banned, and more restrictions on purchase of firearms."
Them: "No, we need to improve mental health stuff."
Us: OK, reform mental health care, but "We want military-style firearms, high capacity magazines banned, and more restrictions on purchase of firearms."
Them: "But the Second Amendment..."
Us: OK, work on laws that are Constitutional under existing SC decisions, but "We want military-style firearms, high capacity magazines banned, and more restrictions on purchase of firearms."
etc.

Learn it or keep getting killed - literally as well as figuratively.
When you guys were younger, was cynicism as bad as it is today?

I've got enough years under my belt to have noticed some definite patterns emerging, and one definite trend is massive cynicism. This plays hand in hand with the prevalence of the conspiracy theories of crisis actors and the like whenever something tragic happens. Toxic cynicism is the perfect fertilizer for sowing discord. Anything bad happens, it's not the tragedy we should be worried about, but those shadowy figures that masterminded the tragedy for ulterior motives. It's nuts.

How do you even fix this?
You aren't doing it wrong if no one knows what you are doing.

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Vrede too
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Re: Gun Legislation

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Jim Crow, Vietnam, Watergate. Cold War, Reagan - Brezhnev/Andropov, the literal end of the world was nigh.

Hard to compare, no internet. I don't think people I meet in the real world are any more cynical than they were.
JTA wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:13 pm
... How do you even fix this?
We can't . . . not that I'm being cynical. ;)
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rstrong
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Re: Gun Legislation

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JTA wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:13 pm
When you guys were younger, was cynicism as bad as it is today?

I've got enough years under my belt to have noticed some definite patterns emerging, and one definite trend is massive cynicism.
November 1987. Hotel National in Moscow. I'm at a table in the bar with several westerners and Russians.

In the Excited States, the Iran-Contra scandal is in full swing. One of the Russians claims that Reagan is another Nixon.

I explain the difference: "When Nixon said he didn't know what was going on, people were afraid that he might lying. When Reagan says that he didn't know what was going on, people are afraid that he might be telling the truth."

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O Really
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Re: Gun Legislation

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So I've given it some thought, and can say from my own perspective that there are (at least) two big differences from now and back in the day. (1) I think that cynicism has indeed increased, in that there is an increasing sense of hopelessness of being able to make a difference. That I think is related to (2) that the bar of what we expect from government has set record lows. Largely, but certainly not exclusively due to Trump. Combine the two, and we're now about where the USSR was from the days of Brezhnev to Gorbachev. Blatent corruption, curtailment of democratic process, increasing fear of police, and a sense that nothing can be done.

Of course, the young always lead, so maybe all is not lost yet.

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Vrede too
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Re: Gun Legislation

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I have a hard time separating what is actual societal cynicism from the cynicism of being older than the idealistic firebrand I once was.
A clown with a flamethrower still has a flamethrower.
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Re: Gun Legislation

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Vrede too wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:56 am
Re: The NRA is being supported by these companies
Come for the discounts, stay for the opposition to common sense gun laws.
https://thinkprogress.org/corporations- ... 8074f2ca7/

Shame on you for profiting from the slaughter of children and other Americans. I will be doing business elsewhere.

(Vrede too), RN
(real address)
...

Enterprise: https://location.opinionlab.com/?sid=en ... ab1-_-ENUS

Alamo: https://alamo.custhelp.com/app/ask#_ga= ... 1519275840

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...

First National Bank of Omaha: https://www.firstnational.com/ConsumerW ... t-by-email

...
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billy.pilgrim
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Re: Gun Legislation

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It must have been our emails.


(I'm practicing to be like Solar - he's so cool)



I only did a 6 second flip to fox at 6 CST, couldn't tell who was talking, but he was describing the big con meeting with a picture of q-tip preaching to the masses. After running through all the hot topics, the disembodied voice said - I swear he said this, "and then wayne lapissair finally broke his silence".

I guess ol' Wayne doesn't talk much.
Trump: “We had the safest border in the history of our country - or at least recorded history. I guess maybe a thousand years ago it was even better.”

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billy.pilgrim
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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by billy.pilgrim »

With all the gun talk in the media and all the right wing deflection to mental health, why then doesn't the liberal media or democrats mention that the repugs just passed legislation to let vets with mental problems have guns.

Seems relevant.


http://www.newsweek.com/guns-america-bi ... ets-568578
Trump: “We had the safest border in the history of our country - or at least recorded history. I guess maybe a thousand years ago it was even better.”

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rstrong
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Re: Gun Legislation

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"Many in legacy media love mass shootings... You love the ratings. Crying white mothers are ratings gold."
- NRA spokeswoman Dana Loesch

"[The media and political elite] hate the NRA... Their goal is to eliminate the Second Amendment and our firearms freedoms, so they can eradicate all individual freedoms."
- NRA head Wayne LaPierre

"[NRA lobbyist Chris Cox] and the folks who work so hard at the NRA are Great People and Great American Patriots. They love our Country and will do the right thing."
- Trump

JTA
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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by JTA »

O Really wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:47 pm
So I've given it some thought, and can say from my own perspective that there are (at least) two big differences from now and back in the day. (1) I think that cynicism has indeed increased, in that there is an increasing sense of hopelessness of being able to make a difference. That I think is related to (2) that the bar of what we expect from government has set record lows. Largely, but certainly not exclusively due to Trump. Combine the two, and we're now about where the USSR was from the days of Brezhnev to Gorbachev. Blatent corruption, curtailment of democratic process, increasing fear of police, and a sense that nothing can be done.

Of course, the young always lead, so maybe all is not lost yet.
I think the internet has helped spread cynicism.

It's the information wild west. Most people aren't equipped with proper critical thinking abilities and a healthy dose of skepticism to shelter from the torrent of information raining down upon them.

In regards to a controversial topic, a friend once said to me "I simply don't know who to believe anymore".

You've had cable news and social media erode faith in experts and formerly trusted sources of information. We've all seen this. A good example is the climate change debate. A single ounce of doubt, one single mistake, a few revisions in light of new evidence, and the whole well is poisoned for most people.

College educated adults are "out of touch" and "brainwashed". Scientists have an agenda. The government is conspiring to enslave us. Everyone is lying to further thier power over you. Nobody is truthful. Who should we believe!? Objective truth has been completely destroyed.

So people turn to their online echo chambers. It feels good to feel part of a group. It's human nature to want to belong. The in-group feeling of comraderie exacerbates the echo chambers.

Every simple, logical explanation, and everything expounded by the "experts" that's goes against your online tribe is just proof that your cynicism is well justified.

Or something.
Last edited by JTA on Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Vrede too
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Re: Gun Legislation

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Update on mass murderer Cruz:

JROTC
Militarist
Islamophobic
Homophobic
Racist
Anti-Antifa
Anti-Mexican
Anti-immigration
Antisemitic
Rightwing
Ammosexual
POSPOTUS supporter

Any questions?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoneman_ ... ng#Suspect
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JTA
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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by JTA »

Also, I think cynicism goes hand in hand with the more extreme libertarian crowd. I've known people that were pissed off to no end that they have to pay taxes in support of things like public schools despite having no children.

If you're distrusting of everything and everyone, you're more likely to turn inward and focus on yourself and disregard your community. Or once again, turn to the internet and find a sense of belonging with an online "sub-culture"
You aren't doing it wrong if no one knows what you are doing.

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GoCubsGo
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Re: Gun Legislation

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We're infamous!!!

Sheriff at White House meeting dogged by questions about 'offensive' jokes and controversial comments

https://www.yahoo.com/news/sheriff-whit ... 03131.html

Go Henderson County!!!!
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GoCubsGo
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Re: Gun Legislation

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JTA wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:27 am
Also, I think cynicism goes hand in hand with the more extreme libertarian crowd. I've known people that were pissed off to no end that they have to pay taxes in support of things like public schools despite having no children.

If you're distrusting of everything and everyone, you're more likely to turn inward and focus on yourself and disregard your community. Or once again, turn to the internet and find a sense of belonging with an online "sub-culture"
Wingnuts of all stripes and civil disobedience been around for ages. The internet has just given them louder voices and you started paying attention.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... y_theories
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_disobedience

Or, if you want to be entertained by a combination, check out sovereign citizens.

https://m.youtube.com/results?q=soverei ... tizen&sm=3
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rstrong
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Re: Gun Legislation

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GoCubsGo wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:58 pm
Wingnuts of all stripes and civil disobedience been around for ages. The internet has just given them louder voices and you started paying attention.
Wingnuts have evolved in the last decade, largely because the internet changed the business model for monetizing them.

They used to believe in UFO, sasquatch and Lock Ness Monster claims. And of course the Illuminati. You could sell them books, video tapes, speeches and whatnot. It was largely non-political.

But by the end of the Clinton years Rush Limbaugh, WorldNetDaily and InfoWars discovered political conspiracy theories to be highly lucrative. The religious right would believe any goddamned thing you told them, taking it on faith. They spent the entire Bush II Presidency peddling North American Union, Amero, NAFTA Superhighway and martial law wingnuttery. Monetizing with ads, online stores, gold scams and whatnot.

Once Democrats were in power they could focus even more. Birther claims, commie Muslim claims and more. Helping to create the Tea Party.

Breitbart beat them at their game by being even more shameless and more extremist. Going places even mainstream Republicans didn't want to go. Places even the Tea Party didn't want to go. And it put Trump & Friends into the White House.

Yes, the internet gave the wingnuts a louder voice. But it also made it easier to monetize and harness them.

JTA
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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by JTA »

I think there's also a certain critical mass that has to be achieved for an idea to go from "nutcase conspiracy" to "plausible reality" in most peoples minds.

Say there's some dude in your community spouting off outlandish claims he's heard through the grapevine about the illuminati or whatever. It's more than likely gonna be brushed aside by most if its just some singular individual mumbling such claims.

Well, along comes the internet. Everyone is easily exposed to these outlandish claims. But not only that, along comes social media. Now you have the psychological impact of seeing many people also affirming those outlandish claims (even if they're really bots retweeting or "liking" something on social media). The batshittery now seems much more plausible to the average Joe if all of these supposed millions of others are also affirming them on social media.

I think we're in an era of transition. The dissemination of information via social media has changed things big-time. The means of reaching millions directly has been incredibly simplified. Tons of personal information is at the manipulators finger tips. Shit... people willingly put the most intimate of details on FB!

I think all of this sort of crept up upon us without us having realized the full consequences. The 2016 election was an enormous wake up call.
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Vrede too
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Re: Gun Legislation

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Silver lining (a little desperately): We do now have high quality fact checkers and other avenues for verification/debunking that we never had before . . . if people use them.
A clown with a flamethrower still has a flamethrower.
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Vrede too
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Re: Gun Legislation

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Other divorces from the NRA, according to CNBC:
Vrede too wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:56 am
Hertz: https://www.hertz.com/rentacar/customer ... S_USE_SITE

Symantec: couldn’t find address or form
Also, MetLife and Chubb.
A clown with a flamethrower still has a flamethrower.
-- Charlie Sykes on MSNBC
1312. ETTD.

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Vrede too
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Re: Gun Legislation

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More divorces from the NRA, according to NBC:
Vrede too wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:56 am
Avis and Budget: https://www.avis.com/en/customer-servic ... e-feedback
All of the major rental car companies now, also Wyndham.
A clown with a flamethrower still has a flamethrower.
-- Charlie Sykes on MSNBC
1312. ETTD.

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