The LEO thread

[Vrede too]

cheaper to hold in prison than to execute
plus, the added benefit of being able to release them if proven innocent

that pretty well covers the issue - except for the revenge aspect

Revenge sometimes. Some find the life in prison to be worse than death. I would.

Damn you, billy.pilgrim, how dare you cite scientific facts when there's a con present?

"only look at that aspect (innocent people being executed)" is a lie about me. I also care about:
Cost, as billy.pilgrim says;
Racist, classist application;
Not trusting government as much as you do;
Evidence that execution increases societal violence;
Reversibility, as billy.pilgrim says;
Not believing that government should make all of its populace complicit in some thing so extreme;
Not wanting to associated with repressive, barbaric countries like China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Pakistan, Egypt, Somalia and North Korea. The US is the only nation in the Americas or Oceania with state killing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_p ... ed_in_2017

New Low of 49% in U.S. Say Death Penalty Applied Fairly

[O Really]

I wonder what the 49% is thinking constitutes "fair."

There really is no argument that it is applied fairly* when you have a different law in every state, different criteria, different standards for when the death penalty can be considered, endless appeals at varying levels of representation expertise, yada, resulting in sometimes decades from the time you sentence him until you finally kill him.

*If "fairly" is defined as equitable, consistent, and non-discriminatory.

[Vrede too]

I don't worry about any of that and I wonder how many others do. I think that most folks know that they system is biased against the poor and nonwhite. It's just that a healthy chunk of that 49% think that's perfectly okay.

[Leo Lyons]

I wonder what the 49% is thinking constitutes "fair."

There really is no argument that it is applied fairly* when you have a different law in every state, different criteria, different standards for when the death penalty can be considered, endless appeals at varying levels of representation expertise, yada, resulting in sometimes decades from the time you sentence him until you finally kill him.

*If "fairly" is defined as equitable, consistent, and non-discriminatory.

I don't worry about any of that and I wonder how many others do. I think that most folks know that they system is biased against the poor and nonwhite. It's just that a healthy chunk of that 49% think that's perfectly okay.

I'll ask again:
Innocents do get incarcerated. Innocents do get executed;
but why abolish the death penalty for those who were caught by the evidence or DNA they left behind?
Or those who confessed; or led authorities to the graves, dumpsters. burn pits, freezers, hog pens, wells, etc. where they dumped their victims like so much garbage? Should they still deserve a life where their every need will be tendered to? Is capital punishment in these cases merely "revenge?"

And the fat pervert in your area not long ago that chained a girl up in a locked trailer, raping her repeatedly after killing her boyfriend in front of her. When caught, he confessed to other murders; should he deserve to live the rest of his life with all his needs tended to at the expense of the state? Isn't that "wasting your money?" Why should punishment be lessened (plea bargained) because the killer 'co-operated' with authorities by showing them where he buried/disposed of his hapless victims? Is that just a 'ho-hum' situation?

[O Really]

...Should they still deserve a life where their every need will be tendered to? Is capital punishment in these cases merely "revenge?"

And the fat pervert in your area not long ago that chained a girl up in a locked trailer, raping her repeatedly after killing her boyfriend in front of her. When caught, he confessed to other murders; should he deserve to live the rest of his life with all his needs tended to at the expense of the state? Isn't that "wasting your money?" Why should punishment be lessened (plea bargained) because the killer 'co-operated' with authorities by showing them where he buried/disposed of his hapless victims? Is that just a 'ho-hum' situation?

I would think as a former law enforcement guy, you'd know that while in a narrow definition a prisoner does have his "needs tended to", that life in prison really isn't much of a life. Certainly not a life most people would trade their own for. But besides that, if cost matters (and it doesn't much to me in this instance), it is less costly to put somebody away for life than to kill them. The problem, IMNVHO isn't so much whether or no we kill them, it's the process we follow. Convict them, give them one or two shots at appeal based on certain limited grounds within a fairly tight time limit, then take them out back and shoot them. Or drop them like a horse.

[Vrede too]

Odd, I haven't seen anyone here post that killers "deserve to live". Looks like Leo Lyons is hallucinating again. He should be locked up or put out of his misery before he hurts someone.

[Leo Lyons]

...Should they still deserve a life where their every need will be tendered to? Is capital punishment in these cases merely "revenge?"

I would think as a former law enforcement guy, you'd know that while in a narrow definition a prisoner does have his "needs tended to", that life in prison really isn't much of a life. Certainly not a life most people would trade their own for. But besides that, if cost matters (and it doesn't much to me in this instance), it is less costly to put somebody away for life than to kill them. The problem, IMNVHO isn't so much whether or no we kill them, it's the process we follow. Convict them, give them one or two shots at appeal based on certain limited grounds within a fairly tight time limit, then take them out back and shoot them. Or drop them like a horse.

As a former law enforcement guy, I do have pity or remorse on many of those sentenced to life in prison. I have no respect or remorse for many more of ones I've seen sentenced to life or death due to the cruelty of their crimes and the even more cruel and graphic words directed at loved ones describing in detail what they did to their victims before killing them.
Call it revenge if you like, or call it what it should be: Justice Served. Whichever you prefer, I have experienced what I described above. I glad I'm not the executioner. 2 appeals, 3 bullets, it's over. I still can't, for the life of me, come to grips as to how 'they' deduce that life in prison is more costly than a swift execution.

[Leo Lyons]

Odd, I haven't seen anyone here post that killers "deserve to live". Looks like Leo Lyons is hallucinating again. He should be locked up or put out of his misery before he hurts someone.

In those exact words, no you didn't; so obviously you're hallucinating, as usual. Abolishing the death penalty IS saying killers deserve to live.

"put out of his misery?"
I believe that according to Banni's rules against such, and the fact that you had someone banished for the same reason,
you just threatened my life... You want my address, big man?

[O Really]

[
In those exact words, no you didn't; so obviously you're hallucinating, as usual. Abolishing the death penalty IS saying killers deserve to live.

Not at all. Some criminals are so heinous what they "deserve" is to be drawn and quartered, then skinned alive. But for a variety of reasons, our society chooses not to do that, having nothing to do with what the scum "deserved."

Most of the laws relating to capital punishment in the states can't really be patched. Better to wipe off what's on the books now and start over.

[O Really]

you just threatened my life... You want my address, big man?

Oh, puh-leeze.

[Vrede too]

... Abolishing the death penalty IS saying killers deserve to live.

Not at all....

Someone must have really struggled with Logic in grade school.

I think plenty of people deserve to die, I just think the negatives from state killing are too high when life without parole is the alternative....

Reading Comprehension, too.

Oh, puh-leeze.

Such a delicate snowflake he is.

Or, I was making a sly-ish commentary on how arbitrary and tyrannical the death penalty can be and you were too slow to get it, and your whining thus proved how stupid and tyrannical LEOs can be. Two-fer. Sure, post your address openly in case anyone has doubts about the former.

I didn't get anyone banished. You've screwed up, again. As the one being stalked and threatened, I stepped back from any recommendations or decision making as that would have been too self-serving. However, there was quite lively conversation on the topic.

[Leo Lyons]

I didn't get anyone banished. You've screwed up, again. As the one being stalked and threatened, I stepped back from any recommendations or decision making as that would have been too self-serving.
0:-?> I can't imagine why anyone would ever stalk or threaten you.
Why, you're the sweetest, kindest, over-sized asshole wrapped in a hairy meatsock that anyone would jump hurdles to be your friend!

However, there was quite lively conversation on the topic.
I wouldn't doubt that. If there was such, you would own the World's Best Baiter award; that makes you the MasterBaiter!

[O Really]

So Leo - you're a character in an online anonymous forum who may or may not be anything at all like the actual writer, but who, maybe, lives somewhere in NY 600 miles away from where other characters in the forum may live - if indeed they're close to real themselves. How can you possibly be personally insulted or threatened?

[billy.pilgrim]

So Leo - you're a character in an online anonymous forum who may or may not be anything at all like the actual writer, but who, maybe, lives somewhere in NY 600 miles away from where other characters in the forum may live - if indeed they're close to real themselves. How can you possibly be personally insulted or threatened?

This may be another of those rare cases where the strawman beats up the man.

[Leo Lyons]

So Leo - you're a character in an online anonymous forum who may or may not be anything at all like the actual writer, but who, maybe, lives somewhere in NY 600 miles away from where other characters in the forum may live - if indeed they're close to real themselves. How can you possibly be personally insulted or threatened?

Oh, puh-leeze! I posted earlier this morning, but something came up and I had to go elsewhere, so I didn't get to go any further with my reply to Vrede.

Surely you don't believe that I think Vrede is a real-life threat to me? (what I meant about you all having no sense of humor)
Of course I'm too far away for Vrede's deadly grasp, but if words could kill, I'd be dead meat by now, along with all the other poor souls he's killed off with his acidic mouth. And, of course, he himself is writhing in overwhelming pain because of the spirit of that 'ol mean, threatening Mr.B that lives in his head! :violent: :violent:

You also wrote: "How can you possibly be personally insulted or threatened?" Insulted, yes; but that's life in a forum; there's always a keyboard Rambo who's the biggest, baddest badass; one who doesn't want his real-life friends to know what a shithead he is when he gets behind his keyboard, so they're not invited to participate or join his debate forum. Threatened, no. Just as in the case of every playground-mentality bully, if they were physically confronted, chances are they'd tuck their tail and haul ass. Reminds me of the days of CB radio; some badass trucker would tell another he'll stomp his ass. When he gets the invitation to do it, where's he at?

No O Really, I'm not concerned. It is, after all an anonymous forum. Sticks and stones, you know.
If Vrede can dish it out, I can take it; he OTOH...
If I dish it out, I'm prepared to receive it right back. Vrede OTOH...

[Vrede too]

Capital Punishment and Nurses’ Participation in Capital Punishment
Effective Date: 2016
Written by: ANA Center for Ethics and Human Rights
Adopted by: ANA Board of Directors

The American Nurses Association (ANA) opposes both capital punishment and nurse participation in capital punishment....

https://www.nursingworld.org/~4af078/gl ... t_2017.pdf

[O Really]

Why would one need a nurse? Hire a vet tech.

[Vrede too]

Why would one need a nurse? Hire a vet tech.

Depends on state law I imagine.

[Leo Lyons]

Capital Punishment and Nurses’ Participation in Capital Punishment
Effective Date: 2016
Written by: ANA Center for Ethics and Human Rights
Adopted by: ANA Board of Directors
The American Nurses Association (ANA) opposes both capital punishment and nurse participation in capital punishment....

https://www.nursingworld.org/~4af078/gl ... t_2017.pdf
Agreed.Drs. & nurses are trained to save lives, therefore, 3 bullets; done and over, no more discussion.

Why would one need a nurse? Hire a vet tech.
Agreed. Live like a junkyard dog, die like a dog.

[O Really]

Capital Punishment and Nurses’ Participation in Capital Punishment
Effective Date: 2016
Written by: ANA Center for Ethics and Human Rights
Adopted by: ANA Board of Directors
The American Nurses Association (ANA) opposes both capital punishment and nurse participation in capital punishment....

https://www.nursingworld.org/~4af078/gl ... t_2017.pdf
Agreed.Drs. & nurses are trained to save lives, therefore, 3 bullets; done and over, no more discussion.

Why would one need a nurse? Hire a vet tech.
Agreed. Live like a junkyard dog, die like a dog.

Large-animal vets regularly put down thousand-pound horses - quickly, reliably, and apparently painlessly. A sedative, followed by high dose barbituates sends them off the the pasture over the rainbow in a humane manner. Same drugs and process would surely work for a 200-or-so pound convict.