Golf (yeah, golf)

[Ulysses]

Golf ====> Zzzzzz

[O Really]

So various guesses put 2-10% of US prisoners as actually not guilty, and best guess of Innocence Project is about 4% of those on death row are not guilty.
The US government, and indirectly the US people, go year after year letting innocent people and kids get gunned down in the name of gun-worship.
The US Supreme Court is on the verge of making it legal for places like Oklahoma to make it a felony to have or perform an abortion.
The US government, under multiple Presidents and one President* has regularly invaded foreign countries with resultant killings of many non-combatants, some children.
Multiple states are, somewhat legally, restricting voting rights either through direct curtailment or indirectly through gerrymandering.
The US, going back through history and remaining today is a violent, warring, racist, misogynistic society where religious zealot extremist are able to force their will on various government units.
And so on...

World and national politics and societal culture is too complicated to draw a direct line from "dissident news guy killed" to "boycott the golf tour."

[GoCubsGo]

Plenty of other examples.

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/saudi-arabia ... ing-salman

[O Really]

Plenty of other examples.

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/saudi-arabia ... ing-salman

I dunno, man. I'm not saying the Saudis are nice people, or that their form of government is somewhere I'd want to live, but with some cultural adjustments most on that list could be applied in principle to the US. No, the US doesn't sentence people to floggings, but there are plenty of police-administered beatings a year, and 400-something people die in police custody each year, not counting "natural" deaths. Executions have gone down in the past 20 years or so, but still occur. The recent ruling on Border Patrol authority means that about 60% of US residents lost much of their 4th Amendment protection. And I don't think the US can take much of a holier-than-thou approach on deportation.

Sure, I'm somewhat advocating for the Devil, but I do believe it hasn't worked too well in the past to try to impose the standards of one country onto another. Doubt the US would respond very well to an attempt by somebody else.

[Vrede too]

... World and national politics and societal culture is too complicated to draw a direct line from "dissident news guy killed" to "boycott the golf tour."

Dissident news guy, living in America, with 2 American citizen children and 2 more that were educated here, and working for The Washington Post, killed in a gruesome fashion while in an embassy >>> The Saudis are assholes (GoCubsGo's list and more) >>> Khashoggi was telling America and the world that the Saudis are assholes, including for its genocidal war on Yemen >>> Enough Americans already think that the Saudis are assholes that it's possible to organize around it and Khashoggi's murder >>> Blatant "sportswashing" is offensive >>> TFG golf courses are offensive >>> Boycott only the LIV golf tour, throw LIV players out of the PGA tour (done), throw LIV players out of the Majors (in progress).

IMO that's the implied direct line, and it seems to be a successful one.

We've never been saints, as you say, nor are we able to fix the entire world, but there are bits of it we can address. If they wish the Saudis can buy ads pointing out all the things that you do and calling us hypocrites. Though accurate, I think that it would backfire.

[GoCubsGo]

O Really is sounding a bit like trump defending Putin for being a murderer.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/04/politics ... index.html
No, we're hardly innocent or perfect but we do aspire to be better and can sometimes admit our failings.

[O Really]

No, we're hardly innocent or perfect but we do aspire to be better and can sometimes admit our failings.

I think that was once true in a galaxy long ago and far away named "America" but I don't think there's much aspiration anymore. "We" elect racist white supremist-supporting anti-immigration people to office and then when they clearly show what awful people they are, we just use them for social media entertainment. 80 million people voted to keep a guy in office who differs from Putin only in what he thought he could get by with. A second term and we'd be living in Russia too. "We" couldn't get together for the common good to fight a worldwide pandemic despite having the best people and tools to do it.

Anyway, I still think PGA is stepping on its own dick to bar the LIV players on a political basis.

[Vrede too]

Yeah, we suck, too.

... Anyway, I still think PGA is stepping on its own dick to bar the LIV players on a political basis.

Not necessarily an entirely moral choice by the PGA. They would have also been considering:

Resistance from non-LIV players
Resistance from PGA and course staff
Media criticism
Protests outside and perhaps inside tournaments
Advertiser reaction to the protests, especially if there were boycotts
The fact that the LIV tour is a competitor

Given how weak the pro-Saudi public contingent is here, it may have been an easy choice with little downside . . . besides O Really disapproval.

[O Really]

I doubt most golf fans are all that wrought up over Saudi human rights violations, and probably most Americans couldn't find Saudi Arabia on a map or tell you anything about it other than: Rich, bad A-rab sheiks, sand, funny clothes. Of course golf writers could certainly generate some hearty haruummps out of their readers, I'm sure. But as I may have mentioned, I don't recall reading about any of those trashing the tour and trashing those who play in it actually being offered a hundred mil or so. Pick a golf writer; ask him if he'd say nice things about LIV for a hundred mil. When he haruumps "of course not" actually offer him the hundred mil. Interesting what might happen.

[GoCubsGo]

You're probably mostly right on golf fans and to be honest most Americans are clueless as to where Saudi Arabia is (YouTube any of the Kimmel or Leno man on the street bits.....it's effing unreal).

The reporter analogy doesn't fly cause they're never going to be near real money.

For the golfers, many of whom already make a very nice living are not going to be paid much by the Saudis and the special ones that already earn generational wealth it's a question of "How Many Yachts Can You Ski Behind?"

[Vrede too]

I doubt most golf fans are all that wrought up over Saudi human rights violations, and probably most Americans couldn't find Saudi Arabia on a map or tell you anything about it other than: Rich, bad A-rab sheiks, sand, funny clothes....

It doesn't take most. It just takes enough with enough passion.

billy.pilgrim, you still with us? What does your sportswriter boy think?

[O Really]

The reporter analogy doesn't fly cause they're never going to be near real money.

Well, no, they're not. And that's what makes it really easy to say "don't take the money."

[GoCubsGo]

Bob Costas on CNN this morning.

"This is Saudi blood money."


Phil Mickelson is easily explained, he's broke.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/golf/p ... ar-AAYdFcR

[GoCubsGo]

Currently at +9. Looks to have his weekend schedule free if anyone wants to go gambling with him.

Bye bye.

[Vrede too]

Currently at +9. Looks to have his weekend schedule free if anyone wants to go gambling with him.

Bye bye.

Do spectators ever cheer flubs or is that banned?

[O Really]

Currently at +9. Looks to have his weekend schedule free if anyone wants to go gambling with him.

Bye bye.

Do spectators ever cheer flubs or is that banned?

Good question. From my more-than-casual-but-less-than-extensive experience, fans generally follow the players they like, or Tiger. There is occasional ragging, and players don't take it so well. You don't usually get booing, except for fans of Boo Weekley, who yell "Booooooo". But cheering for a bad shot would be new.

I've always thought golfers were too much diva anyway. Make them putt under the same circumstances that NBA players take free throws.

[Vrede too]

Do spectators ever cheer flubs or is that banned?

Good question. From my more-than-casual-but-less-than-extensive experience, fans generally follow the players they like, or Tiger. There is occasional ragging, and players don't take it so well. You don't usually get booing, except for fans of Boo Weekley, who yell "Booooooo". But cheering for a bad shot would be new.

I've always thought golfers were too much diva anyway. Make them putt under the same circumstances that NBA players take free throws.

There could also be a "Dog Pound" rotating cadre that follow the rivals of their favorite players to cheer the flops. If they're going to call golf a "sport", then the fans should be like with every other sport.

[GoCubsGo]

It's almost like they think trump has some sort of conscience.


9/11 Families Call on Trump to Cancel Saudi-Backed Golf Event

[Vrede too]

It's almost like they think trump has some sort of conscience.

9/11 Families Call on Trump to Cancel Saudi-Backed Golf Event

To be fair, they aren't happy about Joe's visit either, let alone the fist bump. Neither am I.

They have to know that Dolt .45 has never chosen morality or patriotism over money, ever, so I'm wondering if the real targets aren't golfers, advertisers, media, fans, etc. Here's a non-paywall version:
https://news.yahoo.com/9-11-families-ca ... 00295.html
It doesn't say how much TRE45ON is getting, but I'd guess a lot given what some of the golfers are reportedly reaping.

[O Really]

To be fair, they aren't happy about Joe's visit either, let alone the fist bump. Neither am I.

Yeah, cuz we all know how well making a country a "pariah" works in changing national behaviour. Places like Iran and North Korea have become models of international citizenship since being cut off.