Syria/Iraq

[neoplacebo]

The fat mullah hasn't sung yet. The Senate probably has to concur and I'm not sure it precludes the use of executive authority by Obama even then. But, it's a good step.

I sort of think he has. I don't think it makes much difference what the US does relative to this part of the world anymore, other than in its perpetual blind support of Israel and the resulting effect of creating more and more enemies as time goes on. I believe the current conflagration in that area is only the vanguard of worse things to follow. But I hope I'm wrong.

[JTA]

Airstrikes undertaken as US re-engages in Iraq

There's no doubt that the Islamic State is particularly despicable, but this means that we are involved again until it's defeated or Iraq's Shia government reaches some unlikely peace accord with it.

I've been following the whole situation with ISIS pretty closely. You can even go on youtube and other places and watch videos they've released. Word of warning though, they're incredibly graphic and gruesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yzplLIFqfs

There are videos of these guys driving around Iraq, pulling up next to a vehicle full of people and just indiscriminately gunning them down. Another shows them going down a line of Iraqi troops that have surrendered and gunning them in the back of the head one by one.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/ira ... story.html

Humanitarian agencies said Tuesday that between 10,000 and 40,000 civilians remain trapped on Mount Sinjar since being driven out of surrounding villages and the town of Sinjar two days earlier. But the mountain that had looked like a refuge is becoming a graveyard for their children.

This is one situation I fully support some form of intervention. Maybe not soldiers on the ground, but at least airstrikes and some humanitarian aid, especially to those Yazidi's being besieged on that mountain.

[neoplacebo]

Maybe, but we have to recognize that we created these conditions with the invasion, occupation, coronation of Nouri al-Maliki and support for a corrupt and exclusionary Shia government. Once we start some form of intervention it almost never ends with a US defeat even if it means soldiers on the ground.

The delusional viceroy L. Paul Bremer made the first move in this predictable debacle when he disbanded the Iraqi Army, immediately creating the seeds of what is now prevalent. Funny how I've not heard Dick Cheney blabbering lately about how the invasion of Iraq "makes America safer." What a dumbass.

[JTA]

It's a huge irony that we are now Iran's ally in Iraq, a mixed ally/enemy in Syria and an enemy otherwise.

Saw this commentary today:

When you get Al Qaeda, Iran, and the US all on the same side, you have ROYALLY fucked up.

http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comme ... aq/cjk6te4

[neoplacebo]

It's a huge irony that we are now Iran's ally in Iraq, a mixed ally/enemy in Syria and an enemy otherwise.

Yeah, it really complicates the old adage "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" way of thinking. I bet all the spooks are wigging out trying to figure out who's who.

[JTA]

It never really hit me until now, but it's kind of nuts that with the internet and all you can watch all of this unfold in real time. There's a flame war going on on twitter between the US and ISIS as we speak:

ISIS's Message to the US:
https://twitter.com/hashtag/Amessagefro ... S?src=hash

American's responding to ISIS:
https://twitter.com/hashtag/Amessagefro ... S?src=hash

The internet front.

[JTA]

Pretty interesting documentary about ISIS straight from the source:

https://news.vice.com/video/the-islamic ... ull-length

[neoplacebo]

Yeah, well, that's all fine but pretty soon Dick Cheney will come out and tell us what should be done. In case no one has noticed, he's been conspicuously silent since his chickens have come home to roost. I am on the edge of my seat anticipating his analysis and recommendations.

[bannination]

Pretty interesting documentary about ISIS straight from the source:

https://news.vice.com/video/the-islamic ... ull-length

That was incredibly interesting. Thanks for the share.

I feel so bad for those brainwashed kids.

[JTA]

Pretty interesting documentary about ISIS straight from the source:

https://news.vice.com/video/the-islamic ... ull-length

That was incredibly interesting. Thanks for the share.

I feel so bad for those brainwashed kids.

Yeah it's messed up.

Vice has some pretty interesting stuff if you've never heard of it before.

Check out the Vice guide to North Korea and Liberia. The one about Liberia is especially messed up, but very interesting.

Here they are: Liberia: http://www.vice.com/the-vice-guide-to-t ... ull-length

North Korea: http://www.vice.com/the-vice-guide-to-t ... rea-1-of-3

[bannination]

Pretty interesting documentary about ISIS straight from the source:

https://news.vice.com/video/the-islamic ... ull-length

That was incredibly interesting. Thanks for the share.

I feel so bad for those brainwashed kids.

Yeah it's messed up.

Vice has some pretty interesting stuff if you've never heard of it before.

Check out the Vice guide to North Korea and Liberia. The one about Liberia is especially messed up, but very interesting.

Here they are: Liberia: http://www.vice.com/the-vice-guide-to-t ... ull-length

North Korea: http://www.vice.com/the-vice-guide-to-t ... rea-1-of-3

I was sitting there wondering how many of those people were just repeating the mantra in front of the camera just because they feared for their lives rather than actually believing in the words they were saying.

Geez, they way they coached those kids though.... Reminded me of Jesus Camp.

I'll be checking out those other links too when I get some time.

[JTA]

Pretty interesting documentary about ISIS straight from the source:

https://news.vice.com/video/the-islamic ... ull-length

That was incredibly interesting. Thanks for the share.

I feel so bad for those brainwashed kids.

Yeah it's messed up.

Vice has some pretty interesting stuff if you've never heard of it before.

Check out the Vice guide to North Korea and Liberia. The one about Liberia is especially messed up, but very interesting.

Here they are: Liberia: http://www.vice.com/the-vice-guide-to-t ... ull-length

North Korea: http://www.vice.com/the-vice-guide-to-t ... rea-1-of-3

I was sitting there wondering how many of those people were just repeating the mantra in front of the camera just because they feared for their lives rather than actually believing in the words they were saying.

Geez, they way they coached those kids though.... Reminded me of Jesus Camp.

I'll be checking out those other links too when I get some time.

What got me especially was when that one ISIS guy from Belgium was getting his real young kid to repeat some stuff he taught him. You could tell the kid had no idea what he was going on about and was just repeating what he thought his dad wanted him to hear. Then they show some footage of kids that are a bit older and they seem full on brainwashed.

My Arabic is a bit rusty, but you could tell some of the adults were full of shit and were just saying stuff to placate the ISIS guys and get them off their backs. I do the same thing almost everyday at work.

[O Really]

Arming and training the "moderate Syrian rebels" - what could possibly go wrong?

[bannination]

These people are evil no doubt, however, if they are all killed it just becomes another power vacuum like the ones we've created before.... up comes the next crazy group.

At least Saddam had it mostly under control.

[neoplacebo]

Arming and training the "moderate Syrian rebels" - what could possibly go wrong?

Send a note to John McCain; he's been advocating for that for quite a while. He relishes his days of glory, and wants others to have that experience.

[neoplacebo]

These people are evil no doubt, however, if they are all killed it just becomes another power vacuum like the ones we've created before.... up comes the next crazy group.

At least Saddam had it mostly under control.

No way would Saddam put up with this. He'd immediately recognize it as an "opps" and nip it in the bud. I just can't believe that apparently no one in the State Department or Defense Department can understand and respect the tribal and violent nature and history of these people; what they do is kill each other. That's what they've done for more than a thousand years. I don't expect them to change their ways. You can't just support and arm a particular faction because there's always going to be more than that particular faction working against you, Then it degenerates into the "my god is better than your god" nonsense, and the tribal and factional rivalries continue. The notion that you can nurture democracy in these places is just bullshit. They need somebody who will kick their ass if they get out of line. Dick Cheney would make a good ruler over there. Donald Rumsfeld as well. Secure and brutal little fiefdoms.Saudi Arabia, our big "ally" over there, sure ain't no democracy but I don't hear anyone clamoring for fixing it.

[JTA]

I feel like our nations foreign policy lately has been "Let's try some random shit and see if it works.".

"Mr. President, looks like there's an uprising in Syria. What is our strategy?"
President: "Let's lob some bombs and arm some rebels see if it works."

"Mr. President, ISIS is taking over large swathes of the middle east. What is our strategy?"
President: "Let's lob some bombs and arm some rebels see if it works."

it's like they took their foreign policy straight from my Friday post-lunch programming playbook.

"Mr. JTA, your code has a bug in it."
JTA: "Let's lob some variables and and arm my logic with some new if statements and see if it works."

[neoplacebo]

I feel like our nations foreign policy lately has been "Let's try some random shit and see if it works.".

"Mr. President, looks like there's an uprising in Syria. What is our strategy?"
President: "Let's lob some bombs and arm some rebels see if it works."

"Mr. President, ISIS is taking over large swathes of the middle east. What is our strategy?"
President: "Let's lob some bombs and arm some rebels see if it works."

it's like they took their foreign policy straight from my Friday post-lunch programming playbook.

"Mr. JTA, your code has a bug in it."
JTA: "Let's lob some variables and and arm my logic with some new if statements and see if it works."

Well, perhaps if we'd kept our hands off starting with the CIA usurping the elected Iranian leaders back in the 50's and putting in the Shah (the opposite of the Iraq fiasco) then maybe there wouldn't be a religious hardline situation in Iran today. Then we go to Iraq and fuck that up fifty years later. Now we have the result of firing the Iraqi army along with sixty years of stupid foreign policy. Opps.

[JTA]

I feel like our nations foreign policy lately has been "Let's try some random shit and see if it works.".

"Mr. President, looks like there's an uprising in Syria. What is our strategy?"
President: "Let's lob some bombs and arm some rebels see if it works."

"Mr. President, ISIS is taking over large swathes of the middle east. What is our strategy?"
President: "Let's lob some bombs and arm some rebels see if it works."

it's like they took their foreign policy straight from my Friday post-lunch programming playbook.

"Mr. JTA, your code has a bug in it."
JTA: "Let's lob some variables and and arm my logic with some new if statements and see if it works."

Well, perhaps if we'd kept our hands off starting with the CIA usurping the elected Iranian leaders back in the 50's and putting in the Shah (the opposite of the Iraq fiasco) then maybe there wouldn't be a religious hardline situation in Iran today. Then we go to Iraq and fuck that up fifty years later. Now we have the result of firing the Iraqi army along with sixty years of stupid foreign policy. Opps.

Does not compute.

The 1950's? History only moves in four year increments. With each president history starts anew.

Or that's at least what I've gathered from following the news and public opinion.

[JTA]

I feel like our nations foreign policy lately has been "Let's try some random shit and see if it works."...

"lately"?

You should save that post for when you're the age most of us are discussing the same shit with people that are your age now.

Hah yeah true. Not sure the age of most of you, I know Mr. B is an older guy, so he probably remembers a lot from back in the day so I gotta ask to get some valuable insight.

Mr. B - was foreign policy as seemingly lackadaisical during the civil war as it is today?