Gun Legislation

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Boatrocker
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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by Boatrocker »

O Really wrote:And more... http://www.wspa.com/story/27645195/sc-m ... ar-old-son

The mother had no idea how to use the gun she kept in an unlocked drawer. Arrrrrgh!
That happened just blocks from my house and, in the poor woman's defense, it has been reported locally that she removed the magazine and put it elsewhere, but didn't know to check the chamber, and probably didn't know how. She put the pistol in the top drawer of a chest, forcing the kid to build a "ladder" from wrapped Xmas presents to get to the top drawer. The gun belonged to her husband, who died of cancer earlier this year. I can't be too critical of her, but, yes, there should've been a trigger lock or the gun should've been removed from the house.
Local cops hate this kind of shit.
I will not lie down.
I will not go quietly.

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O Really
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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by O Really »

I have great sympathy for the woman, losing her husband and now her kid. It's a horrible tragedy. I understand there are extenuating circumstances, and I'm not saying she should be sent to jail. But bottom line, she (and her kid) are victims of a lax attitude about guns in general. If, for example, it had been a well-known law that anyone who had or gained possession of a firearm had to take training - much like getting a drivers' license if you have/get a car - then she probably wouldn't have had it like she did. If her husband had given a ratsazz about the safety of her and his kid, he would have seen that she knew at a minimum how to handle safely any firearm in the house. I could rant more, but to no avail.. As long as the "opps" defense works for guns, nothing will change.

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rstrong
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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by rstrong »

Vrede wrote:Gunmaker staring down $1B in debt as gun sales slump

Such a pity. Gee, it looks like the NRA budget will have to be cut, too.
Reality check:

Successful and money-making companies often go under regardless. They get bought out by some hedge fund, which then puts them deep in debt to pay their investors a dividend. They sell off the company's properties for a quick profit, leaving it in more debt for rent. And then they walk away.

This is what's happening with Red Lobster and Olive Garden:
Starboard Value previously pulled the stunt with Red Lobster, selling the real-estate out from under 500 restaurants to a "real estate investment trust," freeing $1.5B for dividends to investors like Starboard, leaving Red Lobster limping along paying rent in the locations it had previously owned, profits cut in half -- after Starboard had milked it for its giant, one-time payout.

This is a common hedge-fund scam: it's what killed Mervyn's, costing 30,000 jobs after the business's hedge-fund owner sold the stores' property out from under it, breaking the business's back on rent payments for property that it had once owned (the hedge fund cleaned up from the real-estate sale).
As your New York Post story says, Remington was bought by Cerberus Capital Management a few years ago. Cerberus gets a mention in the Rolling Stone's Greed and Debt: The True Story of Mitt Romney and Bain Capital:
In 2010, a year after the last round of Hertz layoffs, Carlyle teamed up with Bain to take $500 million out of another takeover target: the parent company of Dunkin' Donuts and Baskin-Robbins. Dunkin' had to take out a $1.25 billion loan to pay a dividend to its new private equity owners. So think of this the next time you go to Dunkin' Donuts for a cup of coffee: A small cup of joe costs about $1.69 in most outlets, which means that for years to come, Dunkin' Donuts will have to sell about 2,011,834 small coffees every month – about $3.4 million – just to meet the interest payments on the loan it took out to pay Bain and Carlyle their little one-time dividend. And that doesn't include the principal on the loan, or the additional millions in debt that Dunkin' has to pay every year to get out from under the $2.4 billion in debt it's now saddled with after having the privilege of being taken over – with borrowed money – by the firm that Romney built.

If you haven't heard much about how takeover deals like Dunkin' and KB Toys work, that's because Mitt Romney and his private equity brethren don't want you to. The new owners of American industry are the polar opposites of the Milton Hersheys and Andrew Carnegies who built this country, commercial titans who longed to leave visible legacies of their accomplishments, erecting hospitals and schools and libraries, sometimes leaving behind thriving towns that bore their names.

The men of the private equity generation want no such thing. "We try to hide religiously," explained Steven Feinberg, the CEO of a takeover firm called Cerberus Capital Management that recently drove one of its targets into bankruptcy after saddling it with $2.3 billion in debt. "If anyone at Cerberus has his picture in the paper and a picture of his apartment, we will do more than fire that person," Feinberg told shareholders in 2007. "We will kill him. The jail sentence will be worth it."
Cerberus bought Remington Arms for $370 million - a price which include $252 million in assumed debt. As your New York Post story says, when someone wanted to buy the company off Cerberus, "Remington passed and ended up borrowing more money to pay investors a dividend, raising its debt load to more than $1 billion." Now it's likely unsellable.

It's only a matter of time until you hear about lib'ruls, gun control and Obama being responsible for the company's demise.

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rstrong
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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by rstrong »

Vrede wrote:Point taken, but my link also gives no small measure of credit to declining gun sales since 2012. I'm cool with whatever the reasons are, and with the likely drop in NRA contributions from at least from one source.
It's temporary. In 2016 there'll be a new commie Marxist socialist Democrat candidate who plans to take everyone's guns away. Just like Bill Clinton and Obama were going to.

If a Democrat wins in 2016, the lucrative hysteria will go into overdrive. And again in 2020, 'cuz the Democrat was waiting until after re-election to do it.

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rstrong
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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by rstrong »

Vrede wrote:
rstrong wrote:It's temporary....
Yeah, so is Xmas. You're such a grinch. ;)
Aw, c'mon. The NRA is essentially a wing of the Republican Party now, and Christmas is in keeping with Republican Party ideals:

Christmas teaches children that God/Jesus/Santa loves rich kids more.

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rstrong
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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by rstrong »

Vrede wrote:
rstrong wrote:... The NRA is essentially a wing of the Republican Party now ...
Not the other way around?
Nope. Fox News got started as a wing of the Republican Party. THAT is what got reversed.

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rstrong
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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by rstrong »

Now we watch as the NRA demands armed officers stationed in every Walmart.

After their response to the Newtown Massacre, that's not even sarcasm.

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rstrong
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Re: Gun Legislation

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...followed by claims that the shooting was staged by Carter Clinton Obama as a pretext to take away everyone's guns.

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neoplacebo
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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by neoplacebo »

Vrede wrote:Woman shot, killed at Walmart in Idaho by her toddler: reports

Opps.

Comment:
Now, if the 4-year old was packing a gun, he could have taken out the two year old before he got a shot off. Wonderful world eh?
Opps! I posted about this in the LEO thread not seeing this. I suppose I figuratively shot myself in the foot like a dubmass.

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neoplacebo
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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by neoplacebo »

rstrong wrote:...followed by claims that the shooting was staged by Carter Clinton Obama as a pretext to take away everyone's guns.
My sister is in the pile of dubmasses that think Obama is scheming to "take away our guns" even though I have attempted to explain to her that it's bullshit. Nevertheless, she and her husband have accumulated guns over the past few years. Whether either of them will be accidentally shot or not is anyone's guess but if that happens, I will suggest that perhaps Obama should have taken away their guns. We'll wait......

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rstrong
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Re: Gun Legislation

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They're probably still waiting for Bill Clinton to take everyone's guns away. Any day now.

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O Really
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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by O Really »

Yeah, now it turns out the bag the gun was in was a gift from her husband, designed to hold a weapon. He says she was "in no way irresponsible" and didn't just have the gun loose in her bag. OKfine. But the two-year old got to the gun, right? And fired it - meaning that it was loaded with a shell in the chamber with the safety (unless it was a Glock) off. But I guess if somebody was out to harm her - say, an ex-husband or something - maybe she needed to be armed for ready combat. That wasn't the case? I wonder what was her threat. Maybe it was simply imaginary, like nascar's. Maybe the gun just made her feel powerful. But nooooo - the toddler being able to shoot her with it was just an "accident." Nobody's fault. No irresponsibility. Right.

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rstrong
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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by rstrong »

O Really wrote:maybe she needed to be armed for ready combat.
While finding a parking spot maybe.

Roland Deschain
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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by Roland Deschain »

O Really wrote:.... meaning that it was loaded with a shell in the chamber with the safety (unless it was a Glock) off.
OR...unless it was a double action revolver being carried on an empty cylinder. You really should learn just a LITTLE bit about guns before spouting off about a tragedy, that has undoubtedly scarred a child for life. This woman was stupid beyond measure and it cost her her life but really you idiots don't even know enough about guns to understand that it didn't have to be chambered or have a safety on!

JTA
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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by JTA »

Vrede wrote:Another comment:
Guns don't kill people, toddlers with guns kill people. Only when everyone has a gun can we protect ourselves from armed toddlers.
JTA, would Armed Toddlers be a good name for a thrash band?
Not bad, Some of my other favorite band names:

The Wandering Midget
Fearless Iranians From Hell
Jim Jones and the Cool Aid Kids
Trippy Wicked & the Cosmic Children of the Knight <-- not feeling these guys, but good band name Take that back their new album is not too bad actually.
Alabama Thunderpussy
Weed is Weed - Blunt Force Trauma - One hit wonder <- this album is great.


Warning: Not very PC. Especially Fearless Iranians from Hell. But that was the whole point of the band to begin with; to piss as much people off as possible. Apparently it was a success because one of the band members was commenting on all the death threats they received and still receive because people thought they were serious. This just gained them more publicity at the time.
You aren't doing it wrong if no one knows what you are doing.

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neoplacebo
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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by neoplacebo »

Roland Deschain wrote:
O Really wrote:.... meaning that it was loaded with a shell in the chamber with the safety (unless it was a Glock) off.
OR...unless it was a double action revolver being carried on an empty cylinder. You really should learn just a LITTLE bit about guns before spouting off about a tragedy, that has undoubtedly scarred a child for life. This woman was stupid beyond measure and it cost her her life but really you idiots don't even know enough about guns to understand that it didn't have to be chambered or have a safety on!
This is a first, in that Roland has given me an idea to invent the double action trigger in which you must take two separate actions in quick succession in order to discharge your weapon. This would allow an extra measure of safety in the event the safety of the firearm was in the off position. The double action would only consist of pulling the trigger twice; something anyone could do in less than half a second. Someone else will probably get rich from this, though. If nothing else, this would tend to eliminate the "opps" defense favored by dubmasses with guns.

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O Really
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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by O Really »

Roland Deschain wrote:
O Really wrote:.... meaning that it was loaded with a shell in the chamber with the safety (unless it was a Glock) off.
OR...unless it was a double action revolver being carried on an empty cylinder. You really should learn just a LITTLE bit about guns before spouting off about a tragedy, that has undoubtedly scarred a child for life. This woman was stupid beyond measure and it cost her her life but really you idiots don't even know enough about guns to understand that it didn't have to be chambered or have a safety on!
I'm sure I don't know as much about firearms as you, but I do possibly read a little better:
According to the Kootenai County Sheriff's Office, "The boy removed the 9mm semi-automatic handgun from his mother's purse and shot her once in the head, killing her instantly." So could you enlighten the rest of us idiots on how to fire a 9mm semi-automatic without a shell chambered?

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O Really
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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by O Really »

Damn, here's another one where the gun had a mind of its own. Maybe roland just hasn't been paying attention to all the guns that just discharge themselves.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... /21267619/

"Cincinnati police said in a news release that Officer Darryl Jouett of the Erlanger (Ky.) Police Department was in an elevator when he tried to adjust the weapon in his holster and shot himself in the stomach.

The duty-issued .40-caliber semi-automatic handgun discharged and the bullet ricocheted off the walls of the elevator, police said."

Mr.B
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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by Mr.B »

What's the last sound you hear before you shoot yourself in the stomach while in an elevator...?

ZZZZIIINNNGGG!

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neoplacebo
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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by neoplacebo »

Mr.B wrote:What's the last sound you hear before you shoot yourself in the stomach while in an elevator...?

ZZZZIIINNNGGG!
I bet it was more like "BOOM" and then "ding" and then not being able to hear himself cuss and fuss over it because his ears were ringing so bad. Maybe Aerosmith can write a new song "Blood in an Elevator" about it.

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