Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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Mr.B
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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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Bungalow Bill wrote: "Looks like he was going for the stigmata, but really messed it up." :(
The epitome of a manly, fatherly figure for sure. No wonder his kid is so messed up in the head. He and his father didn't even share the same last name; couldn't find any info on Dylann's birth mother.

"Dylann Roof was born in Columbia, South Carolina. His father, Franklin Bennett, and stepmother, Paige Mann, were divorced after ten years of marriage, in which Bennett was allegedly verbally and physically abusive towards Mann"

Nipple rings .... good grief !

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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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O Really wrote:"Seems to me the issue ought to be around not on what one of several versions of a "Confederate flag" meant in the distant past, but what it has meant in the more recent past. Without regard to anything else, it has clearly been used as a rally point of segregation; it has been used as a symbol of white supremacy, it has been used as a symbol of continued rebellion against the United States. Not to over-kill the Nazi analogy, but the symbol we see as "Nazi" has a long history having nothing to do with killing Jews, permanently ruined by Hitler's adaptation. None of the former uses will ever be the same. The "Confederate battle flag" - actually the flag of Northern Virginia may have represented a defense of homeland or whatever back in the day, but for decades has been used by those advocating segregation, racism, and white supremacy. It may be legal for individuals to fly it as freedom of speech, but it has no place in government use outside a museum. Not flying at the state house; not a part of a state flag."
So taking it down will prevent it's continued use as a "symbol of hatred, racism, and slavery"? Will Walmart's decision to stop selling anything with even a picture of a Confederate flag stop the same?

Asheville recently completed renovations of the Vance Monument in Pack Square ... Everyone knows former governor Z.B. Vance owned slaves, should that monument be torn down? Fayetteville, NC still has the Market House situated in the center of the city .... (read the comments in the link) should it be torn down? Do either of these (and I'm certain there's many more somewhere) not carry the same stigma, or even historical value, as the Confederate flag? Both are city-owned properties, aren't they?

My point is, the Confederate flag is nothing more than something to gripe about, especially in light of all the other "symbols" of ancient history that's still being preserved today. Doing away with the Confederate flag will not stop brain-dead idiots from continuing to use it as a symbol of their stupidity.

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O Really
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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

Unread post by O Really »

Wal-Mart is not the first company that comes to mind as a leader in progressive social change. But despite all their other faults, I've gotta give them props on their decision to drop Confederate-themed merchandise, including the battle flag. :-|| :-|| :clap:

That type of effort, much more than legislation, is what is needed to make long-lasting cultural change. No rights trampled on. No "tyrannical" regulations. Just a huge retailer making a decision it sees in its long term best interest and happens to benefit society.

It's interesting that those supporting government flying the Confederate flag talk of "heritage," "history," etc. but forget when an how its current meaning developed. It hasn't been consistently a part of state's flags or flown over state houses since the end of the Civil War. Individuals, organizations and states adopted the Northern Virginia flag as the rallying point for anti-segregation efforts, including protests over the Brown vs. Board of Education decision. There was no doubt at the time that the flag represented a pro-segregation point of view and threatened (at least in imagination) a new rebellion. Since that time, it has always been more than just a historical symbol, and rarely in a good way. It's been used by quite a few bands and other entertainers, including for example, Lynyrd Skynyrd and Georgia Satellites. Well, I like "Freebird" as well as anyone, but I don't think you'll find Skynyrd or any of the other "Rebel flag flying" groups on lists of those promoting social/legal equality - at least they didn't when they were on the Sean Hannity tour a few years ago.

Compare to another pirating of a flag with a noble history, the "Don't Tread on Me" flag stolen by the teapartiers. When you see that flag or quote on the back of a truck now, do you think the owner is a student of American Revolutionary War history? Probably not. You think there's a teapartier - no matter how positively or negatively you view teapartiers.

Flags do have meanings. And the meaning of a flag isn't always up to the intent of the one flying it. Cars go by with a Gamecock, Tiger or Devil face on them, do we guess they're just into colorful birds, endangered species, or in some devil-worshiping cult? Probably not. Most of us would know they were supporters of South Carolina, Clemson, or Duke.

The Northern Virginia flag was stolen. It's former meaning wiped away by those who use it to symbolize their segregationist and maybe racist views. Time for the governments, and other people who do respect its history to lower it and display it only as a piece of history.

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Vrede too
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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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Vrede too wrote:... Dylann Storm Roof's legacy ...
Virginia governor orders Confederate flag removed from license plates
A clown with a flamethrower still has a flamethrower.
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1312. ETTD.

Mr.B
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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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O Really wrote:........"The Northern Virginia flag was stolen. It's former meaning wiped away by those who use it to symbolize their segregationist and maybe racist views. Time for the governments, and other people who do respect its history to lower it and display it only as a piece of history."
Very good, enlightening, explanation; all of it. Thanks!

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Bungalow Bill
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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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Mr.B wrote: The epitome of a manly, fatherly figure for sure. No wonder his kid is so messed up in the head. He and his father didn't even share the same last name; couldn't find any info on Dylann's birth mother.

"Dylann Roof was born in Columbia, South Carolina. His father, Franklin Bennett, and stepmother, Paige Mann, were divorced after ten years of marriage, in which Bennett was allegedly verbally and physically abusive towards Mann"

Nipple rings .... good grief !
Maybe his father wasn't the greatest role model, but other kids have
had just as bad or worse ones, and managed to turn out okay. The odds
may have been against him, but he is still responsible for his own actions.

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Bungalow Bill
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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

Unread post by Bungalow Bill »

The problem with the Confederate battle flag in its first incarnation is
that it symbolized the fight to keep slavery legal, even if many of those
who fought for it were not slaveholders. Hard to get more racist than
supporting slavery.

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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

Unread post by JTA »

Mr.B wrote:
O Really wrote:........"The Northern Virginia flag was stolen. It's former meaning wiped away by those who use it to symbolize their segregationist and maybe racist views. Time for the governments, and other people who do respect its history to lower it and display it only as a piece of history."
Very good, enlightening, explanation; all of it. Thanks!
What if the confederate battle flag controversy is what prompts the south to finally rise again?

http://www.theonion.com/article/south-p ... r-year-377
HUNTSVILLE, AL–For the 135th straight year since Gen. Robert E. Lee's surrender at Appomattox, representatives for the South announced Monday that the region has postponed plans to rise again.


Three of the estimated 45 million Southerners who have not yet gotten around to rising again.
"Make no mistake, the South shall rise again," said Knox Pritchard, president of the Huntsville-based Alliance Of Confederate States. "But we're just not quite ready to do it now. Hopefully, we'll be able to rise again real soon, maybe even in 2001 [Old Article]."
You aren't doing it wrong if no one knows what you are doing.

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O Really
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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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JTA wrote: What if the confederate battle flag controversy is what prompts the south to finally rise again?

http://www.theonion.com/article/south-p ... r-year-377
HUNTSVILLE, AL–For the 135th straight year since Gen. Robert E. Lee's surrender at Appomattox, representatives for the South announced Monday that the region has postponed plans to rise again.


Three of the estimated 45 million Southerners who have not yet gotten around to rising again.
"Make no mistake, the South shall rise again," said Knox Pritchard, president of the Huntsville-based Alliance Of Confederate States. "But we're just not quite ready to do it now. Hopefully, we'll be able to rise again real soon, maybe even in 2001 [Old Article]."
Fun question - and I'm sure there will be a lot of "risers" boycotting Wal-Mart until they run out of Skoal, but from any rational standpoint, the south - pr at least most of it - has long been a predominant force in US economy and politics, getting way more than it's share.

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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

Unread post by JTA »

A shitstorm hath erupted:

https://www.facebook.com/News13/photos/ ... 8872696799

So is that the confederate flag controversy equivalent to "I have black friends" ?

Comments are pretty fun to read.

You know, I was thinking. The Confederate battle flag is a damn cool looking flag. It looks way cooler than the US flag in my opinion. I also like that Don't Tread on Me flag, but I wouldn't fly either because of what some people associate them with now. I just like people staying out of my business and leaving me alone so I try to be as inconspicuous as possible because I just want to do my thing and take it easy.
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Vrede too
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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

Unread post by Vrede too »

JTA, Seth Milner & Wneglia, have you said your piece on the flag, whatever it is, to your SC government?
A clown with a flamethrower still has a flamethrower.
-- Charlie Sykes on MSNBC
1312. ETTD.

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O Really
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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

Unread post by O Really »

JTA wrote: I also like that Don't Tread on Me flag, but I wouldn't fly either because of what some people associate them with now. I just like people staying out of my business and leaving me alone so I try to be as inconspicuous as possible because I just want to do my thing and take it easy.
I like the "Don't tread on me" flag too, and it pisses me off that the scummiest of political groups has hijacked it. It was originally the symbol of the first Marines, and another version, with stripes, was the precursor to the current US "stars and stripes." Teaparty assholes using that flag is way worse than sleazy redneck car dealers using "Old Glory" to sell Kias.

Mr.B
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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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JTA wrote: "What if the confederate battle flag controversy is what prompts the south to finally rise again?"
I don't know why, but the first thing that came to my mind when I read that was the "Man Will Never Fly Society", and the conspiracy theorists that claim man never landed on the moon, and that the government was involved in 9/11.... :shock:

Can't figure out the connection, but I'm working on it. -0-?

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Wneglia
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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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Image

Blast From The Pandering Past

:mrgreen:

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Wneglia
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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

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Vrede too wrote:JTA, Seth Milner & Wneglia, have you said your piece on the flag, whatever it is, to your SC government?
I just voted in an online poll to remove it. I am currently in H'ville, but would have attended the rally for removal, if I were in Columbia. I actually spoke to David Beasley (R) when he was governor and recommended removal from the Statehouse dome (It was put there in 1962 by Fritz Hollings (D) and his Democrat state officials). Beasley got it down, and as a compromise placed it on the state grounds, which cost him his political career, but he had no regrets in doing it.

:mrgreen:

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Wneglia
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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

Unread post by Wneglia »

You can make whatever you want out of a symbol. Is this flag a symbol of hate?

Image

:mrgreen:

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O Really
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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

Unread post by O Really »

JTA wrote: Comments are pretty fun to read.

.
Yeah, I wonder if any of them can define "heritage." I wonder if any of them know why "states rights" was an issue in the first place. I wonder if any of them know that "way of life" and "southern culture" didn't exist without slavery. They are right that before the Civil War, the US flag flew over slavery too. But those who flew the battle flag of Northern Virginia and other Confederate flags were fighting to keep their slaves and their "way of life" that was dependent on slavery. Those flying the US flag had, by that time, prohibited slavery.

There were a lot of people who fought bravely and gallantly for the Confederate state in the Civil War who didn't own slaves or had any personal interest in the slavery issue. But they were there fighting because those who owned slaves and wanted to keep them started the war and circumstances required them to take a side. Madison County is an interesting story. The county voted to remain in the US, and the rebel-supporting sheriff was shot at a public meeting. But in the end, the people were sucked in. The South Carolina hotheads who started the war and those in state governments who voted for secession should have all been hung. No matter how you cut and slice the facts, it all comes down to slavery - that ran the economy, that ran the culture.

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O Really
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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

Unread post by O Really »

Wneglia wrote:You can make whatever you want out of a symbol. Is this flag a symbol of hate?



:mrgreen:
Some would say so, fershure. Of course, the costumes do help make a statement. :lol:

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Wneglia
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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

Unread post by Wneglia »

KKK is not a Hate Group :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

but they are LITTERERS.

:mrgreen:

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Re: Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

Unread post by GoCubsGo »

Wneglia wrote:Image

Blast From The Pandering Past

:mrgreen:

Gay marriage, Conferate flag....damn progressives keep changing stuff.
Eamus Catuli~AC 000000 000101 010202 020303 010304 020405....Ahhhh, forget it, it's gonna be a while.

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