Free Range Kids

[O Really]

Thank you.
Yes, I have a point namely to do with the original question posed here. Who is right and who is wrong.
You said (from somebody who rode a city bus to school in the first grade and remembers the only rule to be "be home by dark")

I too used to roam freely when I was a child, from the age of 6 until I got my license.
I thought nothing of being gone from home hours at a time.
Mama never worried about me or the kid who lived next door who was my best friend.learn
Nowadays, as a grown man I hardly will walk anywhere by myself.
I think the neighbors in this case are concerned with the safety of the children as well as are the authorities.
Yes standards change, so do people. I really don't know what is the proper way to express this. The parents have rights, the kids have rights,
but it's like turning your kids loose in a jungle, and sometimes it can be like taking your life in your own hands.
I would hate to read in the news one day that the parents won their case, and later read that the kids were harmed by the evil
that's prevailing in our society. That's my point.

Don't you find it strange that many of the same ones who say it's a parent's "right" to decline vaccination are also those who say the cops should arrest a parent for letting their kids walk home from the park? Walking home from the park is not inherently hazardous. It is theoretically hazardous - just like riding in a car, playing futbol, or playing in the surf. Letting a kid, within reasonable controls, experience the normal hazards of life is not abuse nor neglect.

I'm sorry you have bought into the fear culture so much you fear going out by yourself. It must limit your life experiences a lot. But unless you live in some really awful place, I'd say your fear is overblown. Most attacks aren't random, and they aren't from some boogey-man hiding in an alley. Take some training in self-defense, which includes avoiding problems. Get some confidence, based on knowledge and training. Take charge of your life. And teach that to your kids, if any.

[Seth Milner]

I'm sorry you have bought into the fear culture so much you fear going out by yourself. It must limit your life experiences a lot. But unless you live in some really awful place, I'd say your fear is overblown. Most attacks aren't random, and they aren't from some boogey-man hiding in an alley. Take some training in self-defense, which includes avoiding problems. Get some confidence, based on knowledge and training. Take charge of your life. And teach that to your kids, if any.

I've not bought into anything, I've lived it. Overblown? It's nice you've lived in a safe harbor all your life and have never experienced an attack on your pursuit of happiness. Have you ever lived in a big city, say Houston, New Orleans, or Los Angeles? I have. Have you ever had a knife pressed against your throat so hard that a trickle of blood ran down your chest? I have.
Have you ever lived in One-Horse-Town USA where a dead naked child was found lying in a trash heap behind a trash strewn dumpster? I have. Don't stand on your smug righteousness and tell me to take some training in self defense to avoid problems and get some confidence. I have a lifetime of knowledge and training that you have no clue about what it involved. How dare you.

[Seth Milner]

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Why do I get this when I post?

[bannination]

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Why do I get this when I post?

You shouldn't anymore. It's a spam trap for the first 5 posts a new poster makes.

[Colonel Taylor]

I'm sorry you have bought into the fear culture so much you fear going out by yourself. It must limit your life experiences a lot. But unless you live in some really awful place, I'd say your fear is overblown. Most attacks aren't random, and they aren't from some boogey-man hiding in an alley. Take some training in self-defense, which includes avoiding problems. Get some confidence, based on knowledge and training. Take charge of your life. And teach that to your kids, if any.

I've not bought into anything, I've lived it. Overblown? It's nice you've lived in a safe harbor all your life and have never experienced an attack on your pursuit of happiness. Have you ever lived in a big city, say Houston, New Orleans, or Los Angeles? I have. Have you ever had a knife pressed against your throat so hard that a trickle of blood ran down your chest? I have.
Have you ever lived in One-Horse-Town USA where a dead naked child was found lying in a trash heap behind a trash strewn dumpster? I have. Don't stand on your smug righteousness and tell me to take some training in self defense to avoid problems and get some confidence. I have a lifetime of knowledge and training that you have no clue about what it involved. How dare you.

Looks like you CHOSE to live in some pretty bad areas, I was born right outside Newark,NJ in 1960 and we watched riots and shootings daily. My Dad was ridiculed by some of my family (till this day) when he moved us out of their to the much cheaper at the time and nearly crimeless Joisy Shore. It was a hardship financially on the family but we grew up in the greatest place to grow up at the time. The ocean, woods, hunting and fishing and better schools and we didn't have locks on our house for years after we moved. After that area declined I moved my family further west in the state, when I could no longer stand the folks in the state and couldn't live the life I wanted their we moved one last time.
Life is about CHOICES, sometimes we must SACRIFICE!

[O Really]

I'm sorry you have bought into the fear culture so much you fear going out by yourself. It must limit your life experiences a lot. But unless you live in some really awful place, I'd say your fear is overblown. Most attacks aren't random, and they aren't from some boogey-man hiding in an alley. Take some training in self-defense, which includes avoiding problems. Get some confidence, based on knowledge and training. Take charge of your life. And teach that to your kids, if any.

I've not bought into anything, I've lived it. Overblown? It's nice you've lived in a safe harbor all your life and have never experienced an attack on your pursuit of happiness. Have you ever lived in a big city, say Houston, New Orleans, or Los Angeles? I have. Have you ever had a knife pressed against your throat so hard that a trickle of blood ran down your chest? I have.
Have you ever lived in One-Horse-Town USA where a dead naked child was found lying in a trash heap behind a trash strewn dumpster? I have. Don't stand on your smug righteousness and tell me to take some training in self defense to avoid problems and get some confidence. I have a lifetime of knowledge and training that you have no clue about what it involved. How dare you.

Well, "I dare" because I can only respond to what is in your post - of course I don't know anything about you personally, including where you live/lived or anything else. But I'll stick with my opinion because it applies whether one lives in a more or less dangerous environment. If one is afraid to go out, there should be some changes of some sort made. And yes, I have lived in or close to some sketchy neighborhoods in some big cities.

[Seth Milner]

Looks like you CHOSE to live in some pretty bad areas
Life is about CHOICES, sometimes we must SACRIFICE!

My career was that of an investigative reporter, I didn't choose where to live, I transferred there, and in practically every move, it was a sacrifice, a sacrifice for me and my family, and a decision as to how much I needed my job.

Well, "I dare" because I can only respond to what is in your post - of course I don't know anything about you personally, including where you live/lived or anything else. But I'll stick with my opinion because it applies whether one lives in a more or less dangerous environment. If one is afraid to go out, there should be some changes of some sort made. And yes, I have lived in or close to some sketchy neighborhoods in some big cities.

I'm not afraid to go out, that's not what I meant. I'm sure you have lived in some sketchy neighborhoods, but I'm guessing now you live in an area where you feel oh, so comfortable that you would allow your small children or grandchildren to walk alone a few blocks down the street, out of your sight, by themselves? Also this, if someone were to walk up to your house right now, would they be able to walk right in, or would your door be locked? If it is locked, why?

Free range carries a lot of responsibilities on the part of those parents. I'm saying that if they really loved and cared for their children, they would not allow them to be alone on the street at their ages. Of course they may now have the mindset that they don't have to worry about their safety, everyone is watching their kids for them, or they're placing too much trust in what or who's out roaming the streets, including big dogs.

[Boatrocker]

. . . If it's not "all crime all the time" or "if it bleeds it leads," it's "all fear, danger is near."

Remember the McMartin Daycare circus back in the early 90s? Media jackels, ignorant cops and some prosecutors running for office ruined several lives and businesses over purely made-up, wildass tales of satan worship and pederast orgies in daycare centers. And it was all bullshit.

Yeah, that was a mess. And, maybe to a lesser degree, it still happens. I'm all for doing a thorough investigation of allegations of child abuse, but I seem to remember something about an "innocent 'til proven guilty" phrase somewhere. I know it's a broken record (whatever that is), but I still want to know why a parent can be prosecuted for leaving their 5-year old at home while they go shopping and nobody gets hurt, but get by with an "opps" when the kid shoots his sister (as long as they're home when he does it).

As the father of 3, with 3 grandchildren, it still amazes me how otherwise reasonably intelligent people can convince themselves to "believe" such outrageous bullshit, in the face of knowledge that a toddler can tell wildass stories without prodding or encouragement. If coerced or pressured, they will say damn near whatever you lead them to say.
I am grossly distrustful of investgators, and fail to see how one could ever trust a prosecutor. They are employees of the system, when they should be dispassionate & objective.

[Seth Milner]

I am grossly distrustful of investgators, and fail to see how one could ever trust a prosecutor. They are employees of the system, when they should be dispassionate & objective.

And anxious to make a name for themselves.

[Boatrocker]

Perpetually running for office and- worse- getting elected. A good local example is that arsehole Trey Gowdy.

[Seth Milner]

Perpetually running for office and- worse- getting elected. A good local example is that arsehole Trey Gowdy.

Not completely familiar with him, other than being a Republican, which you obviously aren't, why is he so vilified?
I Googled this, I thought this was right decent of him.
"When the state faced a budget crunch that forced many employees to go on unpaid furloughs,
Gowdy funneled part of his campaign account into the solicitor's budget so his staff could keep working"

[Boatrocker]

Perpetually running for office and- worse- getting elected. A good local example is that arsehole Trey Gowdy.

Not completely familiar with him, other than being a Republican, which you obviously aren't, why is he so vilified?
I Googled this, I thought this was right decent of him.
"When the state faced a budget crunch that forced many employees to go on unpaid furloughs,
Gowdy funneled part of his campaign account into the solicitor's budget so his staff could keep working"

His thoroughly dishonest conduct as a cast member in the House production of Benghazi!!! is enough for rational people to dismiss him outright. His use of campaign funds should be prosecuted. Oh, the irony .

[O Really]

[quote="Seth Milner"[/quote]
I'm not afraid to go out, that's not what I meant. I'm sure you have lived in some sketchy neighborhoods, but I'm guessing now you live in an area where you feel oh, so comfortable that you would allow your small children or grandchildren to walk alone a few blocks down the street, out of your sight, by themselves? Also this, if someone were to walk up to your house right now, would they be able to walk right in, or would your door be locked? If it is locked, why?

Free range carries a lot of responsibilities on the part of those parents. I'm saying that if they really loved and cared for their children, they would not allow them to be alone on the street at their ages. Of course they may now have the mindset that they don't have to worry about their safety, everyone is watching their kids for them, or they're placing too much trust in what or who's out roaming the streets, including big dogs.[/quote]
I do live in a safe neighborhood now, and I keep my doors and cars locked, but truthfully more out of lifetime habit than any real expectation that I'd have a robber. And maybe because I think it would be silly to leave them unlocked even if the risk is small. But kids are developing and learning critters. I wouldn't lock the kid up just because there is a small chance they'd get stolen. I'd teach them to respond appropriately to their surroundings, whatever those surroundings are. And I would teach them to be cautious, and aware of their environment, and to look out for potential danger, but not to be afraid.

[Colonel Taylor]

Looks like you CHOSE to live in some pretty bad areas
Life is about CHOICES, sometimes we must SACRIFICE!

My career was that of an investigative reporter, I didn't choose where to live, I transferred there, and in practically every move, it was a sacrifice, a sacrifice for me and my family, and a decision as to how much I needed my job.

Yes you did, unless they handcuffed ya and shipped you their in a crate you made the choice. There are other jobs. If you wanted to be safe and not get knocked around you could of moved. You CHOSE to go and live in unsafe environments.

Well, "I dare" because I can only respond to what is in your post - of course I don't know anything about you personally, including where you live/lived or anything else. But I'll stick with my opinion because it applies whether one lives in a more or less dangerous environment. If one is afraid to go out, there should be some changes of some sort made. And yes, I have lived in or close to some sketchy neighborhoods in some big cities.

I'm not afraid to go out, that's not what I meant. I'm sure you have lived in some sketchy neighborhoods, but I'm guessing now you live in an area where you feel oh, so comfortable that you would allow your small children or grandchildren to walk alone a few blocks down the street, out of your sight, by themselves? Also this, if someone were to walk up to your house right now, would they be able to walk right in, or would your door be locked? If it is locked, why?

Free range carries a lot of responsibilities on the part of those parents. I'm saying that if they really loved and cared for their children, they would not allow them to be alone on the street at their ages. Of course they may now have the mindset that they don't have to worry about their safety, everyone is watching their kids for them, or they're placing too much trust in what or who's out roaming the streets, including big dogs.

[Seth Milner]

Yes you did, unless they handcuffed ya and shipped you their in a crate you made the choice. There are other jobs. If you wanted to be safe and not get knocked around you could of moved. You CHOSE to go and live in unsafe environments.

You've a point there. I suppose I could have jumped up and down and screamed a hissy fit or two, but then, how would I have gotten this new
home here in SC overlooking this gorgeous lake? I'll retire young in just a few more years...wait, that's not the point here.
My job was dangerous, but my job was also exciting, and it paid damn good. That's why I asked "how high" when they said 'jump', and "you want me there when"?
Now back to the subject matter. Nowadays small children should never be left to themselves on the streets, a parent should have enough sense to realize the dangers out there. Wild animals do not allow their offspring to wander out on their own.

[O Really]

Wild animals do not allow their offspring to wander out on their own.

Well, they do. But they watch out for them. So yes, I live in an apparently secure area, on a nice street. I've got neighbors with kids about 10ish and 7ish. They live in the third house from the corner, where the bus stops. They go down to meet the bus and escort their kids home, past three houses where everybody knows them. Nobody has loose dogs. Seriously, doesn't anybody but me think that's a little over-copting? I might watch out for them - keep an eye on them from the house, but I'd never let them think that I would helicopter over them and endanger their development of self-sufficiency. Sure, I'd hold their hands in the airport and mall, and I'd make sure they knew it's always a straight - no detours - trip from the house to the park, and I might even follow them in the car (out of sight) while they go to the park. But a kid growing up without a sense of independence is gonna be a really wimpy adult. IMNVHO.

[homerfobe]

Typical liberal smarts showing here. Let your little kids out on their own, then when something bad happens, blame the cops, their parents, the system, Republicans and so on.

[O Really]

So what age should a kid be able to walk 3 blocks to the park by him/herself? There isn't a definitive answer, because kids are different, neighborhoods are different, etc. But if cops are going to pick up kids for walking unaccompanied, even when the kids tell them they aren't lost, they're on their way home, yada, then there ought to be a law about that. What's it going to be? And how frightening it must be for a 13-year old kid who has to walk 3 blocks by himself for the first time in his life. Aw, Mommy, puleeze don't make me go to the park!

[O Really]

Well I'm sorry the poster formerly known as "Seth" hardly ever is willing to go out by himself. I still say some help of some type might be in order. In the meantime, this week I twice ventured out onto the neighborhood surrounding Journal Square in Jersey City - alone, unarmed, unafraid, and a major minority. I had a great dinner in a predominately Indian area, as well as taxiing over to Newark to the Portuguese neighborhood. Jersey City is the most diverse city in the US, with practically nobody speaking English as a first language and people of all colors and shades other than "white." I could have just thought I was lucky to have escaped with my life, but surprisingly, nobody else got attacked there in the week. But without doubt, it would have appeared "scary" to someone uncomfortable with cultural diversity. I'm sure the poster formerly known as Nascar would have kept his firearm in his hand - at least until the gendarmes saw him.

[Mr.B]

You're not 8 years old either.