Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

[Mr.B]

"Yeah, because "only" 700,000 Americans died in the Civil War, far greater than our total in WW 2."
Yes, and they died fighting; not corralled en masse then tortured, and executed because of their ethnicity.

"Fortunately and bizarrely, the first amendment allows the flying of both. Why would anyone with an iota of common sense and/or decency fly either?"
Since you mentioned the First Amendment, why would anyone with an "iota of common sense" get their frilly step-ins all in a twist because it is being flown? It's protected free speech, remember?

Let's use another example of freedom of expression. Have you ever seen these "People of Walmart" photos? Think about how they're dressed (or undressed), and some of the slogans seen on their clothing ..... what does that say about "common sense and/or decency"?

"Heritage shmeritage, history shmistory, it glorifies a fucking war."
Never mind .... what I said about "People of Walmart" is right up your alley.

[GoCubsGo]

"Yeah, because "only" 700,000 Americans died in the Civil War, far greater than our total in WW 2."
Yes, and they died fighting; not corralled en masse then tortured, and executed because of their ethnicity.

I do understand the distinction.

"Fortunately and bizarrely, the first amendment allows the flying of both. Why would anyone with an iota of common sense and/or decency fly either?"
Since you mentioned the First Amendment, why would anyone with an "iota of common sense" get their frilly step-ins all in a twist because it is being flown? It's protected free speech, remember?

I find it distasteful, especially on government property and made a statement about it. It is not like I'm obsessive compulsive about it, say as some are about who they fall in love with and choose to marry.

Let's use another example of freedom of expression. Have you ever seen these "People of Walmart" photos? Think about how they're dressed (or undressed), and some of the slogans seen on their clothing ..... what does that say about "common sense and/or decency"? [/b]

"Heritage shmeritage, history shmistory, it glorifies a fucking war."
Never mind .... what I said about "People of Walmart" is right up your alley.

I don't even know what that means.

[GoCubsGo]

Not Hailey's call, to even fly that flag at half staff, much less remove the flag it has to go through the state legislature.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/us/south- ... ill-flies/

If it was her call I doubt she would take it down. As I understand it,
it is padlocked in place and cannot be flown at half staff anyway.
Weird.

From the time of the 2014 SC governor's election. Everything's okay now,
not a single CEO has mentioned it. Just move along.

Republican Gov. Nikki Haley defended the Confederate flag’s presence on South Carolina’s
statehouse grounds, declaring in a debate Tuesday that the flag isn’t an issue because “not
a single CEO” has complained about it.

Parting ways with Democratic challenger Vincent Sheheen, who called for the flag’s removal,
Haley acknowledged that the flag was a “sensitive issue” but rejected the notion of removing
it.

“What I can tell you is over the last three and a half years, I spent a lot of my days on the phones
with CEOs and recruiting jobs to this state,” Haley said. “I can honestly say I have not had one
conversation with a single CEO about the Confederate flag.”

And the political winds shift:

Guess the flag is bad for business.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the ... _campaigns

[Bungalow Bill]

And the political winds shift:

Guess the flag is bad for business.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the ... _campaigns

Guess it all matters what the CEOs think or might think. Got it.
For a pol, any flip-flop of over six months is almost positive.
I do agree that this is likely a win win for Haley, not that she
would ever think about such a thing at this time.

[Bungalow Bill]

Not to be nit pickish, but most of the soldiers who died in the Civil War
did so due to various diseases, not in combat. Of course they wouldn't
have caught those diseases if they hadn't been fighting a war in the first
place.

Not to make grotesque distinctions, but the Nazi flag represented a regime
of genocidal intent against Jews. The Confederate flag represented an
oppressive way of providing cheap labor through the ownership of people.

Breaking news--Haley is on channel 7 proposing that the flag be removed.
I heard the end of something about how it means to some people reverence
for those who fought in a cause. Likely not much mention of what that
cause was.

[Mr.B]

"I don't even know what that means."

No surprise.

[Mr.B]

"Yeah, because "only" 700,000 Americans died in the Civil War, far greater than our total in WW 2."
Yes, and they died fighting; not corralled en masse then tortured, and executed because of their ethnicity.

"the Nazi flag represented a regime of genocidal intent against Jews"
Thanks ... you put it better than I did.

[Wneglia]

Breaking news--Haley is on channel 7 proposing that the flag be removed.
I heard the end of something about how it means to some people reverence
for those who fought in a cause. Likely not much mention of what that
cause was.

Another SC republican proposing removal of the flag is Senator Tim Scott

[GoCubsGo]

"Yeah, because "only" 700,000 Americans died in the Civil War, far greater than our total in WW 2."
Yes, and they died fighting; not corralled en masse then tortured, and executed because of their ethnicity.

"the Nazi flag represented a regime of genocidal intent against Jews"
Thanks ... you put it better than I did.

Well, at least we can agree that Bungalow Bill is more articulate than you are.

[Mr.B]

"Well, at least we can agree that Bungalow Bill is more articulate than you are."

And smarter, more intelligent, and better well-heeled than you.

[Mr.B]

Breaking news--Haley is on channel 7 proposing that the flag be removed.
I heard the end of something about how it means to some people reverence
for those who fought in a cause. Likely not much mention of what that
cause was.

Another SC republican proposing removal of the flag is Senator Tim Scott

[Mr.B]

I've been wondering how long it would be before this would appear ......

Dylann Roof was a devout Christian .....


A shining example of a "devout Christian"


Tattooed with nipple rings: Franklin Roof was seen for the first time last week after his son Dylann was caught.

[Vrede too]

Since you mentioned the First Amendment, why would anyone with an "iota of common sense" get their frilly step-ins all in a twist because it is being flown? It's protected free speech, remember?

Since you mentioned the First Amendment, why would anyone with an "iota of common sense" get their frilly step-ins all in a twist, threaten physical violence, and do the research to ID an anonymous poster all because he suggested their wife had a normal sex life? It's protected free speech, remember?

... It is not like I'm obsessive compulsive about it, say as some are about who they fall in love with and choose to marry....

You're obsessive compulsive about who others fall in love with and choose to marry.

Anyhow, you lost track. The issue is not repressing free speech, it's persuading the government of ALL the people to stop honoring slavers. Bubba will still get to display his hate and stupidity on the side of his trailer.

[O Really]

Seems to me the issue ought to be around not on what one of several versions of a "Confederate flag" meant in the distant past, but what it has meant in the more recent past. Without regard to anything else, it has clearly been used as a rally point of segregation; it has been used as a symbol of white supremacy, it has been used as a symbol of continued rebellion against the United States. Not to over-kill the Nazi analogy, but the symbol we see as "Nazi" has a long history having nothing to do with killing Jews, permanently ruined by Hitler's adaptation. None of the former uses will ever be the same. The "Confederate battle flag" - actually the flag of Northern Virginia may have represented a defense of homeland or whatever back in the day, but for decades has been used by those advocating segregation, racism, and white supremacy. It may be legal for individuals to fly it as freedom of speech, but it has no place in government use outside a museum. Not flying at the state house; not a part of a state flag.

[Bungalow Bill]

"the Nazi flag represented a regime of genocidal intent against Jews"
Thanks ... you put it better than I did.

I knew my sixth-grade education would pay off one day.

[Vrede too]

Breaking news--Haley is on channel 7 proposing that the flag be removed.
I heard the end of something about how it means to some people reverence
for those who fought in a cause. Likely not much mention of what that
cause was.

Another SC republican proposing removal of the flag is Senator Tim Scott

They're all thrilled that people are talking more about the flag of "those advocating segregation, racism, and white supremacy" than they are guns.

[Vrede too]

His legacy will be that of an anti-social idiot.

Or:

Part of me appreciates SC's honest and accurate self-representation (sorry JTA & Wneglia), but:

Remove the Confederate Flag From All Government Places

To be delivered to The South Carolina State House, The South Carolina State Senate, and Governor Nikki Haley

Symbols of hate and division have no place in our government. It's time to stand up for what's right and take down the Confederate Flag!

"There are currently 206,756 signatures."
Wow, in less than 2 days. Won't it be ironic if this is Dylann Storm Roof's most lasting accomplishment?

And/or:

Take down the confederate flag from the South Carolina Capitol

To: Governor Nikki Haley and members of the South Carolina Legislature

We demand that you respect all South Carolinians and use your power and influence to ensure the confederate flag is removed from the capitol grounds.

Over 600,000 signatures between the 2 petitions now, coincidentally about as many as died in the Civil War. There's some poetic justice in Dylann Storm Roof's legacy being 9 killed and the ruination of his own life, Walmart and others never again selling Confederate gear, the rejection of CCC money from and influence with GOP pols, the removal of the slaver flag from the SC Capitol and perhaps others, and maybe even the alteration of some state slaver flags.

No one ever said that racists are very bright.

[Bungalow Bill]

Another SC republican proposing removal of the flag is Senator Tim Scott

I think both Scott and Graham were there. I just watched it for
a few seconds and Haley was the one giving the brief speech.

[Bungalow Bill]

Tattooed with nipple rings: Franklin Roof was seen for the first time last week after his son Dylann was caught.

Looks like he was going for the stigmata, but really messed it up.

[Vrede too]

I wonder if it will bother him that he was caught by a female florist? Even the Aryan Brotherhood may be too ashamed to ally with him in prison.

I'm glad he was caught and appreciate her contribution, but I also agree with this comment:

Everyday American people. She sees the killer, she has the good sense to pull off the road but then doesn't know what to do? Does she ring 911 emergency? No. She rings her boss. What does he do? Does he ring 911? No! He rings his buddy who is a cop to ask him what to do. The buddy then rings 911.
It is amazing that anything ever gets done over there.

My bad, this makes more sense:

Dills was on her way to work in neighboring Kings Mountain, N.C., when she first saw the car she believed to be Roof’s. She called her boss to be sure. He got on the phone with local police to describe what she saw. The license plate was a match.