Big Brother is Watching You

[O Really]

I didn't write the article, of course, but it's pretty close to my views...
http://www.zdnet.com/privacy-is-dead-so ... 000016507/

I especially liked the part...

"Sure, there could be brand risks to the companies involved, but what are we really going to do? Are we really going to refrain from using Facebook, Microsoft, Google and Apple products in the name of privacy? Of course not. Hell, most of us drooling shiny device object loving fools share everything anyway. Let's face it: The NSA is no different than that jackass you can't remember and friended anyway.
So what if the NSA can monitor what you do? Considering most people can't figure out Facebook's privacy settings my dog can monitor you too.

Do I sound cynical? You bet. The government does that to people. Overall, this NSA disaster isn't all that surprising. The Internet is the new phone line, which oh by the way has been tapped by the NSA too."

[Leo Lyons]

With apologies to my friends at ACLU and to Vrede, I find all the hand-wringing over the phone records to be laughable.

Same here.

The reason that I have a pay as you go phone. Bought it at Dollar General for 10 bucks, activated it with a 200 minutes card, was assigned a phone number, no questions asked as to my identity or whereabouts..... Works great. If I need to call 911, they'll have the number, but no clue to my identity or whereabouts (exception: tower ping). Don't want it anymore? I can toss it under a tire and send it on it's way.

Oh, by the way Ommy; did you pick up on anything from the above...? 'nuff sed; now piss and moan over that one.

[neoplacebo]

Like O Really says, Verizon has had the records all along. I can't get too excited about this issue....it's not like the government is "tapping your phone" or something. All that is happening is that every phone number that calls another number is provided to NSA (or whoever). That list of phone numbers making calls and receiving calls is plugged into some database that the NSA (or whoever) has; this database presumably has the phone numbers of known or suspected "bad guys." So, if you call a "bad guy" or get a call from one, you might get checked out by the spooks or even get a visit from them. Considering the state of current technology, this entire thing should come as no surprise to anyone. Having said all that, it would seem to me that "bad guys" could circumvent this system by using a new phone for every call. This way, no numbers would match any numbers on the "bad guy" phone list. Come to think of it, if terrorists were like me (I have never had a cell phone) this gig wouldn't work either.

[Dryer Vent]

I'm a member of the ACLU. And, it is my opinion that this is much ado about nothing. If it helps the feds to stop a terrorist attack, all the better. I can't get my panties up in my butt about it.

[Boatrocker]

LL, you're not as secret as you think. A lot can be determined from who, when and how often you call and all it takes to ID you is:
One of those called volunteering your name.
One of those called being bullied into giving up your name.
One of those called getting their phone book hacked . . . .

One of those called being waterboarded.

[bannination]

https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying/timeline

Site is either currently under attack or overloaded. It's a timeline of the spying.

[bannination]

More revelations:

U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies in broad secret program

The key question is was the data anonymous with no link to personal identities, like when iTunes makes you sign up anonymously for their shitty iTunes store with your credit card number.

Well.... good luck to the government reading my forum messages, I double encrypt each one with ROT13.

[Dryer Vent]

Dryer Vent, this can be used for so, so much more, like suppressing dissent. We don't need to speculate, governments are doing that now.

I survived the 60's unscathed, arrested and probably phone tapped, but unscathed. My phone was being monitored during one of my more adventurous adventures in the early 80's. I came out unscathed. The younger folks today don't have any idea of the tight reign that was undertaken by the government during the Vietnam war, the American Indian Movement, the hippies and yippies.

This stuff is "pussy" compared to what a lot of us went through "back in the day."

[O Really]

This stuff is "pussy" compared to what a lot of us went through "back in the day."

True that, but they did use to have to have at least a modicum of probable cause, even if that "probable cause" was a pic of you participating in a legal demonstration.

[Dryer Vent]

This stuff is "pussy" compared to what a lot of us went through "back in the day."

True that, but they did use to have to have at least a modicum of probable cause, even if that "probable cause" was a pic of you participating in a legal demonstration.

Funny story: there was a demonstration going on in our little city in New Jersey back in the early 70s protesting the arrest of Angela Davis. My sister-in-law was a real conservative who thought Davis belonged in Jail. The feds got a picture of Annie standing on the street corner waiting to cross, and just as they took the photo of the protest, Annie gave the protesters the finger. It ended up that the feds thought she was giving them the finger for taking pictures of the protest. She got hauled in. It really was pretty funny due to her political bent. Shit like that happened all the time.

[O Really]

That's funny!
My view is that all the people in a wad about the phone call data are forgetting a fundamental truth: the odds of an actual innocent person being plucked out of an analysis of a billion or so calls are probably worse than winning PowerBall. But on the other hand, if they really want to get you, personally, there are many, many more and better ways to go about tracking you than random phone records. And the damgummint knows what those ways are.

[Dryer Vent]

That's funny!
My view is that all the people in a wad about the phone call data are forgetting a fundamental truth: the odds of an actual innocent person being plucked out of an analysis of a billion or so calls are probably worse than winning PowerBall. But on the other hand, if they really want to get you, personally, there are many, many more and better ways to go about tracking you than random phone records. And the damgummint knows what those ways are.

A kilo of coke thrown in your car while you're at the mall, anyone? With all the billions of phone calls made in this world on a daily basis, who the hell is going to look at a little old lady living in the sticks?

However, if you file bankruptcy or have a legal case coming up, don't post anything on Facebook. People are watching there, and people are getting caught because they have big mouths (or in this case keyboards and camera phones) that can ruin your case.

[O Really]

It depends on how a government defines "innocent" at any given time. For example, what's to stop it from using this technology against pot smokers or nonviolent Palestinian solidarity activists?

Well, nothing, of course. Nor is there much to stop scofflaws from using any other technology to do foul things. Heck, I'll bet if we tried we could even find some people that have unlawfully profiled wealthy Mexicans on their way through Arizona to the farms they own in Cali. But you probably know that jumping from what they could possibly do directly to "they're out to get us all" just because it's the damgummint could be seen by some as a symptom of hanging around too closely to those wearing the tin hats.

[O Really]

Here's one ACLU quote that sounds to me like "they're out to get us all" ...

“From a civil liberties perspective, the program could hardly be any more alarming. It’s a program in which some untold number of innocent people have been put under the constant surveillance of government agents,” Jameel Jaffer, the ACLU’s deputy legal director, said in a statement. “It is beyond Orwellian, and it provides further evidence of the extent to which basic democratic rights are being surrendered in secret to the demands of unaccountable intelligence agencies.”

My tinfoil hat reports the same as yours - that there are and have been abuses for years, though many different Administrations and both parties. Maybe I'm just jaded, but I don't find this program all that awful, in the overall scheme of things.

[Leo Lyons]

I double encrypt each one with ROT13.

ROT, huh? That explains everything!

[Dryer Vent]

I don't get the same interpretation from that you do. 121 million phones is alarming, they are being surveilled, the intelligence agencies are largely unaccountable, and basic democratic rights can be surrendered even if individuals are not personally harmed, but no "they're out to get us all".

How many federal employees does it take to monitor 121 million phones? I say approximately 10 million.

[Ombudsman]

I double encrypt each one with ROT13.

ROT, huh? That explains everything!

Why should I not be surprised that you didn't get his joke.

[neoplacebo]

It's computer monitoring of calling patterns, they listen in on fewer than that. I don't think we're told exactly how many employees are used or how much it costs the taxpayers.

My guess is that they have one or more Cray supercomputers (or whatever the current model is) that will run those 121 million numbers in just a few seconds. My guess is also that the NSA has not experienced any large or even significant increase in their labor force since maybe Sept. 2001.

[Bungalow Bill]

Whenever government goons get the power to spy on people, you can be
pretty sure they will take that power and and use it and misuse it to the
max. Whatever the practical considerations, this is obvious overreach, even
though there's likely not much we can do about it. And on certain occasions,
you just can't trust parts of the government, no matter who is in charge.

[bannination]

It's computer monitoring of calling patterns, they listen in on fewer than that. I don't think we're told exactly how many employees are used or how much it costs the taxpayers.

My guess is that they have one or more Cray supercomputers (or whatever the current model is) that will run those 121 million numbers in just a few seconds. My guess is also that the NSA has not experienced any large or even significant increase in their labor force since maybe Sept. 2001.

Some of the components are directly plugged into main phone junctions in cities. It actually goes through their box before AT&T's box, both voice and internet.

People who have witnessed some of the installations say there is enough capacity to record all conversations and text for a looooonng time.

All the stories about it "only" monitoring foreigners is complete B.S for obvious reasons.

EDIT: I should note this information came from friends that have worked with ______. So it's hearsay.