Big Brother is Watching You

[O Really]

Some people can be very negatively effected without ever knowing that being on the terror watch list is the reason. I can see this widespread sharing of the list leading to discrimination in housing, finance, employment, etc., and I'm sure there are restrictions on telling the victim why.

Yeah, probably. And although we don't know who all the "1,400 agencies" are, the distribution of the list is probably overbroad and probably the restrictions on its use too lax. But on the other hand, a list sitting on a server somewhere in the FBI basement isn't going to do much good, either. I'm guessing there's no way of finding out what percentage of those on the list have no legit reason to be there whatsoever. I knew a guy once who was on the no-fly list, turned out for having two social security numbers. It occurred because his original parents had gotten a number, then they were killed when he was a child and eventually his adoptive parents got him a number .. or something like that I don't remember exactly, but it wasn't his fault and he didn't even know about it most of his life. Point being, he wasn't dangerous, didn't really "belong" on a watch list, but it wasn't totally without reason, either. Took jumping through some hoops, but he got off it - at least as far as he knew. He was able to fly, so I guess he did.

[Vrede too]

Another thing to remember is that people that can be convicted of crimes are convicted of crimes. The people on this list are suffering real consequences, especially now that we know more about how widely its shared, all because someone somewhere thinks that they might be fishy.

[O Really]

Another thing to remember is that people that can be convicted of crimes are convicted of crimes. The people on this list are suffering real consequences, especially now that we know more about how widely its shared, all because someone somewhere thinks that they might be fishy.

That might be why it's called a "watch" list instead of a "convict" list. You gotta admit, there are a lot of people running around who haven't been convicted of anything but are definitely fishy. That would include Las Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock, who wouldn't have been on a convict list. Of course, he probably wasn't on the watch list either, which kinda makes your point, doesn't it?

[Vrede too]

That might be why it's called a "watch" list instead of a "convict" list. You gotta admit, there are a lot of people running around who haven't been convicted of anything but are definitely fishy. That would include Las Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock, who wouldn't have been on a convict list. Of course, he probably wasn't on the watch list either, which kinda makes your point, doesn't it?

Even more, white extremists that should be on a list, but aren't because we're so focused on Muslims.

I think it's been mismanaged, but do think there should be some sort of list and more importantly I know that there will be a list no matter what I think. However, I wonder how many of these 1400 entities will ever be in a position to use the list to prevent terrorism. Rather, I think many of them are much more likely to use it for petty and not so petty retribution and fear-based shunning sans any criminal conviction.

[O Really]

Interesting article here about getting on and off the list...
https://people.howstuffworks.com/govern ... -list1.htm

Apparently most people on the list aren't US citizens, but whether or not the majority are actually Muslims isn't addressed as far as I saw.

[Vrede too]

NYT: Assange Indicted Under Espionage Act, Raising First Amendment Issues

The Crackdown on Chelsea Manning and Julian Assange Is About Protecting U.S. Empire
By publishing information provided by whistleblower Chelsea Manning, WikiLeaks shined light on U.S. war crimes. But exposing empire comes at a cost.

Yes, this is about outrageous govt, press freedom and the Shrub, Obama and now 45SHOLE slippery slope. Repugnant Assange is the convenient tool for damaging far wider liberties.

[Vrede too]

House Rejects Amendment to Curb NSA Surveillance



QUESTION: On Agreeing to the Amendment

Democratic: 110 Ayes, 126 Noes , 2 NV
Republican: 65 Ayes , 127 Noes, 8 NV
TOTALS: 175 Ayes, 253 Noes, 10 NV


I’m a Journalist but I Didn’t Fully Realize the Terrible Power of U.S. Border Officials Until They Violated My Rights and Privacy

[Vrede too]

Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police
The tech giant records people’s locations worldwide. Now, investigators are using it to find suspects and witnesses near crimes, running the risk of snaring the innocent.

Google's Sensorvault Can Tell Police Where You've Been

AP Exclusive: Google tracks your movements, like it or not

Congress has questions for Google's 'Sensorvault'

Tell Google: Shut down Sensorvault



The petition to Google reads:

"Shut down Sensorvault."

[O Really]

Or provide a useful alibi for the not guilty.

[Vrede too]

Trump Admin Wants To Permanently Bring Back NSA Spy Program: Report

The Trump administration urged Congress in a Thursday letter to back legislation that would make permanent a National Security Agency program allowing agents to vacuum up Americans’ calls and text messages under suspicion of terrorism, according to The New York Times, which reviewed a copy of the letter.

The program is currently halted indefinitely, the administration acknowledged for the first time. Its legal authority is set to expire in December.

The letter, signed by outgoing Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats, explained that intelligence officials had been internally debating the program’s relative value compared to its high costs and technical challenges. According to the Times, Coats argued that the program’s legal authority should be extended in the hope that technological advancements will make it more useful.

Translation: We want to do something invasive, expensive and ineffective because maybe it will magically work in the future.

Once top-secret following the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, the massive spy program was reigned in by Congress after former NSA contractor Edward Snowden showed the world in 2013 what the agency was doing.

Hero.

For years, the NSA systematically collected phone records in bulk, amounting to billions of records per day, as authorized by the Patriot Act. It set off a national discussion on privacy and security concerns when its existence became public, but intelligence officials appeared to have had difficulty justifying it, failing to point to any specific attack thwarted by the program.

Not one.

... But in March, The New York Times reported that the program had been quietly shut down some months previously after technical difficulties caused it to obtain more records than it had the legal authority to collect.

Surprise, surprise.

It's both sad and hilarious that all of those Trumpettes thought that their idol was going to end the Shrub/Obama abuses.

There have been lots of partisan whiners depending on who was in charge, but the only consistent defenders of Americans' privacy against Big Brother have been the handful of libertarian Repubs and the much larger progressive wing of the Dem Party.

[neoplacebo]

I just finished reading "Playing to the Edge" by Gen. Michael Hayden, former head of NSA. According to him, there were two different collection protocols relative to this; the first, called Stellarwind only collected metadata which is the capture of a telephone number, the number it called, and the duration of the call. The more invasive program was Prism, which got actual conversations and is what Snowden revealed. Whether what the General says is true or not I have no idea. If I knew a number in Somalia to call I would call it and say to whoever answered "If my truck isn't ready in an hour, I'm coming down there and kick your ass." Supposedly, both of these programs only collected data when one of the phone numbers is from outside the US. The fact that General Flynn was arrested leads me to believe that one of both of these programs never ended. Besides, Flynn, as former head of DIA, should have known this. So not only is Flynn a traitor, he's also a dumbass.

[Vrede too]

I just finished reading "Playing to the Edge" by Gen. Michael Hayden, former head of NSA.... Whether what the General says is true or not I have no idea....

Nor I, but there's good reason to be skeptical.

Hayden’s testimony vs. the Senate report

Former NSA Director Hayden Lied To Congress And Broke The Law

How the CIA Lied to Congress on Torture, According to Congress
In 2007, then CIA director Michael Hayden testified on US interrogation techniques. The Senate's new report fact checks his claims.

[neoplacebo]

... Whether what the General says is true or not I have no idea....

Nor I, but there's good reason to be skeptical.

Hayden’s testimony vs. the Senate report

Former NSA Director Hayden Lied To Congress And Broke The Law

How the CIA Lied to Congress on Torture, According to Congress
In 2007, then CIA director Michael Hayd

It would seem the General is a consistent liar then; a lot of the points in your links he talks about in the book. It covers more of his time at NSA than at CIA and just from reading the book I've noted that everything that was reported in the press about all this he minimizes and rationalizes. There is something that, to me, is telling in the book; a lot of CIA agents were concerned about being prosecuted for their alleged actions; this started initially after some video tapes of interrogations were destroyed and sort of went downhill from there. The CIA even established a means whereby any agent who might be prosecuted would have his legal costs covered by the agency. Actually, I only checked this book out from curiosity; it's rather boring.

[Vrede too]

It would seem the General is a consistent liar then; a lot of the points in your links he talks about in the book. It covers more of his time at NSA than at CIA and just from reading the book I've noted that everything that was reported in the press about all this he minimizes and rationalizes. There is something that, to me, is telling in the book; a lot of CIA agents were concerned about being prosecuted for their alleged actions; this started initially after some video tapes of interrogations were destroyed and sort of went downhill from there. The CIA even established a means whereby any agent who might be prosecuted would have his legal costs covered by the agency. Actually, I only checked this book out from curiosity; it's rather boring.

One of my biggest disappointments with Obama was the lack of prosecutions for torture and other war crimes.

These reviews of the book are pretty unfavorable, including saying that it's just not well written:

Can You Keep a Secret?
The former C.I.A. chief Michael Hayden on torture and transparency.

Review: In ‘Playing to the Edge,’ Michael V. Hayden, Bush-Era Spymaster, Defends His Record

A lot of terrible things happened on his watch:
9/11
The failures in Afghanistan
Iraq lies and failures
Torture and its coverup
Spying on Americans

Director of the National Security Agency, March 21, 1999 – April 21, 2005
Principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence, April 21, 2005 – May 30, 2006
Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, May 30, 2006 – February 12, 2009
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hayden_(general)

[billy.pilgrim]

It would seem the General is a consistent liar then; a lot of the points in your links he talks about in the book. It covers more of his time at NSA than at CIA and just from reading the book I've noted that everything that was reported in the press about all this he minimizes and rationalizes. There is something that, to me, is telling in the book; a lot of CIA agents were concerned about being prosecuted for their alleged actions; this started initially after some video tapes of interrogations were destroyed and sort of went downhill from there. The CIA even established a means whereby any agent who might be prosecuted would have his legal costs covered by the agency. Actually, I only checked this book out from curiosity; it's rather boring.

One of my biggest disappointments with Obama was the lack of prosecutions for torture and other war crimes.

These reviews of the book are pretty unfavorable, including saying that it's just not well written:

Can You Keep a Secret?
The former C.I.A. chief Michael Hayden on torture and transparency.

Review: In ‘Playing to the Edge,’ Michael V. Hayden, Bush-Era Spymaster, Defends His Record

A lot of terrible things happened on his watch:
9/11
The failures in Afghanistan
Iraq lies and failures
Torture and its coverup
Spying on Americans

Director of the National Security Agency, March 21, 1999 – April 21, 2005
Principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence, April 21, 2005 – May 30, 2006
Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, May 30, 2006 – February 12, 2009
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hayden_(general)

From 1965 to 1971 he played Colonel Klink in the sitcom Hogan's Heroes

[neoplacebo]

Probably how he got to be a general

[Vrede too]

From 1965 to 1971 he (Michael Hayden) played Colonel Klink in the sitcom Hogan's Heroes

Judge Rules Terrorism Watchlist Violates Constitutional Rights

A federal judge ruled on Wednesday that a federal government database that compiles people deemed to be “known or suspected terrorists” violates the rights of American citizens who are on the watchlist, calling into question the constitutionality of a major tool the F.B.I. and the Department of Homeland Security use for screening potential terrorism suspects.

Being on the watchlist can restrict people from traveling or entering the country, subject them to greater scrutiny at airports and by the police, and deny them government benefits and contracts. In a 32-page opinion, Judge Anthony J. Trenga of United States District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia said the standard for inclusion in the database was too vague.

“The court concludes that the risk of erroneous deprivation of plaintiffs’ travel-related and reputational liberty interests is high, and the currently existing procedural safeguards are not sufficient to address that risk,” Judge Trenga wrote.

As of 2017, about 1.2 million people were on the watchlist, which is maintained by the F.B.I.’s Terrorist Screening Center. Although a vast majority of them were foreigners abroad, about 4,600 were American citizens who are protected by the Constitution.

A spotlight on the people reshaping our politics. A conversation with voters across the country. And a guiding hand through the endless news cycle, telling you what you really need to know.

Among them, a group of 19 Americans, represented by the Council on American-Islamic Relations, filed a lawsuit charging that their inclusion violated their due process rights. Recounting tales of being detained and harassed when trying to enter the country, they argued that they did not receive notice of why they were being put on the list or an opportunity to contest derogatory claims.

The judge agreed that the current procedures were inadequate to protect their rights, granting the plaintiffs summary judgment....

Judge Anthony J. Trenga is a Shrub appointee and has issued several high profile con rulings.

[Vrede too]

US border agents now need a good reason to search travelers’ devices

... As of yesterday, border agents can no longer perform willy-nilly searches of travelers’ laptops, tablets, smartphones, or other devices, according to a federal judge ruling. The ruling does not apply if border agents suspect the traveler of a crime, and there is “probable cause” that the device contains “evidence of contraband,” the same standard applied for police search warrants....

In her decision, (US district judge) Casper cited the Fourth Amendment, which gives people the right not to be searched without a warrant or “probable cause,” and found that device searches transcend the ordinary acceptable incursions on privacy: “Even under the border search exception, it is the privacy interests implicated by unfettered access to such a trove of personal information that must be balanced against the promotion of paramount governmental interests at the border.”

Though travelers may have one fewer thing to worry about, border agents still have plenty of other tools at their disposal to interrogate, intimidate, or investigate. “Routine” search tools, such as document inspections, pat-down searches, and opening and examining checked luggage will continue as normal.

FU CBP.

[Vrede too]

How to protect yourself from Google’s Sensorvault surveillance program

It’s a scary thought: You and your friends are marching for gun control, climate action or social justice when a crime happens a mile or two away. Now you and the thousands of people who attended are suspects. And guess who turned you in: Google.

That’s because Google knows where you are right now, even if location tracking on your Google apps is turned off. And the company is handing over your location information to law enforcement agencies.

Google calls this program “Sensorvault” and its use by law enforcement for nearly 10 years was a well-kept secret until the New York Times recently exposed Google’s operation.

The truly troubling part is that you don’t have to be involved in a crime to be targeted by the police when you’re in the vicinity of a crime. Google’s Sensorvault stores your minute-by-minute travel via the Google apps on your mobile phone. One chief of police even boasted that Google can go beyond just a single location to show your “pattern of life.“

There are some ways you may be able to protect yourself from Google’s surveillance program. One word of caution: This solution isn’t foolproof, because Google could still be tracking your whereabouts, even after taking these steps....

FU Google.

[O Really]

It’s a scary thought: You and your friends are marching for gun control, climate action or social justice when a crime happens a mile or two away. Now you and the thousands of people who attended are suspects. ...

No more so than everybody living or working within the mile or two area would be. More realistic is that a suspect or suspects are identified and then Google is used to check locations for those suspects. No way is anybody going to ask Google for "everyone with two miles of the crime" and then start investigating each one. In practice, it doesn't look much different from using cellphone location records from the phone company.