Yep, They're Coming to Take Our Guns!

[O Really]

If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Maybe - but nobody is interested in "outlawing" all guns. Everybody is, or should be, interested in keeping the outlaws from getting them.

But where do the outlaws get their illegal guns? They buy them, either from a legal dealer or an illegal source, or they steal them. Let's address the issue of buying. This document http://www.ussc.gov/Legal/Primers/Primer_Firearms.pdf is from the US Office of General Counsel Sentencing Commission. Read as much as you can stand, but notice the penalties for illegally obtaining a firearm, or illegally selling one. Up to 10 years in prison. "Up to" generally means that a first offender might get off with time served, or actually do only a couple of years. Suppose the sentencing for illegally obtaining or possessing a firearm was a mandatory minimum of 10 years. Suppose we took a page from the sex offenders book and made firearm offenders register, and made them subject to random inspection and search. Suppose we made firearm offenders wear a gps tracker, just to piss them off. Suppose a firearm offender could be subject to deportation to Somalia.

Point being, we (collectively) really don't work very hard to keep guns away from outlaws, and don't work very hard to prevent repeat offences.

You don't have to take my word for it... http://www.acslpa.org/html/pa_firearms_ ... missi.html

[Wneglia]

We need a ban on hands and feet, since they are responsible for more murders than either rifles or shotguns. Link

[rstrong]

We need a ban on hands and feet, since they are responsible for more murders than either rifles or shotguns. Link

Only if you ignore the 1,587 murders in 2011 from "Firearms, type not stated" and possibly the "Other weapons or weapons not stated".

Sincere question - What are the "Other guns" besides "Handguns", "Rifles" and "Shotguns" responsible for 97 murders in 2011?

Field artillery. Naval artillery. Rail guns.

The gang problem is getting out of control.

[neoplacebo]

We need a ban on hands and feet, since they are responsible for more murders than either rifles or shotguns. Link

Only if you ignore the 1,587 murders in 2011 from "Firearms, type not stated" and possibly the "Other weapons or weapons not stated".

Sincere question - What are the "Other guns" besides "Handguns", "Rifles" and "Shotguns" responsible for 97 murders in 2011?

My guess is the Uzi, Mac10 and other small machine guns and the AR and AK type long guns, too. Just guessing.....

[billy.pilgrim]

[quote="Vrede
Another funny one:
Ensure the 2nd Amendment cant (sic) be infringed in anyway limiting citizens (sic) ability to defend against tyrannical governments.

Ummm, our government has planes, ships, tanks, artillery, drones and nukes. At least 5,313 gun nuts can't spell and imagine themselves able to defend against all that.

Another funny one:
.[/quote]


that one has always been a favorite - here is one simple minded thought they have admitted that the government can infringe on the 2nd by not allowing citizens to have personal tanks, artillery, drones and nukes, but then they characteristically spin and ignore their own words to apply their bumper sticker slogan to one specific type of gun



memo to the right - technology rendered the 2nd invalid years ago. today we don't need to waste time with something long decided, today it is time to decide how to cut down on violence - the easiest route would be to observe how other free countries do it

[billy.pilgrim]

From The Other 98%:

When we started the Other 98% almost three years ago, we had one clear mission: do whatever we can to thwart Big Corporate Money from buying our government away from us. That has meant pushing back on lobbyists from every industry - and the firearm industry is no different.

After the events in Newtown, we feel a special obligation to tell the truth: the only reason that our politicians don't listen to the vast majority of gun owners who want common-sense gun legislation is that the NRA pays - handsomely - to get them to look the other way. And it's time for that to change.

Here are some ways you can join the fight against the NRA lobby right now:

GunPromise.com, a new project by our friends at the Progressive Change Campaign Committee. This is an exciting new project where you can join an action that will continue for weeks and months to come, way past the outrage fatigue that the NRA is counting on.

Our friends at CREDO Action have organized the first march on the NRA to take place in the aftermath of Newtown - if you're not already on their list, join them now to learn what's next.

Occupy The NRA has launched on Facebook, and already promises the potential for some very interesting direct action - sign up sooner than later.

Our friend Alex Lawson helped us leak this internal NRA members video that helps explain why they've been so quiet since Friday - they have zero excuse for the racist fearmongering they're sending their members 24/7, which is meant to appeal to the least stable, most paranoid corner of their base. Help us by sharing it on Facebook and Twitter.

Thank you for all you do to make this movement real.

Sincerely,
John Sellers, The Other 98%

hey, we don't care bout no facts, obama has committed treason and the terrorist were in my yard


the girl who claimed that god gave her the right to carry a gun - now that was special

[Mad American]

Wonder what was defined as a "semi-automatic assault weapon"??

[rstrong]

Wonder what was defined as a "semi-automatic assault weapon"??

Wikipedia: Assault Weapon: Attributes in assault weapon definitions

[neoplacebo]

Federal judge upholds Ohio's new exotic animal law

Note that the contrary arguments are very similar to the gun nuts' case, that the law is in response to real world events, that it's about reasonable restrictions rather bans, and that Ohioans still have the ability to keep and arm bears.

But, if it makes it to the activist, anti-states' rights SCOTUS . . .

I remember the incident with the guy who had all the exotic animals at his place; weird. What escapes me is why the gun nuts and also the animal nuts don't just kill themselves first, and not inflict any of their stupidity onto anyone else. Publicity? Vain glory? In any case, it's a relief to know that, at least in Ohio, one can still keep and arm bears....

[Stinger]

Wonder what was defined as a "semi-automatic assault weapon"??

Good point, if the people asking and answering the polls, almost all of whom can legally buy semi-automatic assault weapons without restriction, aren't smart or informed enough to answer your question there's something wrong with our system. Thanks, did you think you were helping your argument?

Like Partisan62, you make a better case for gun control than we lefties could ever hope to - all firepower, no brains.

All primer, no powder.

All flash, no bang.

Shoot first, aim later.

[Mad American]

Wonder what was defined as a "semi-automatic assault weapon"??

Wikipedia: Assault Weapon: Attributes in assault weapon definitions

Detachable magazines[citation needed]
Collapsible stocks allow for adjustment to the length of pull.
Folding stocks[citation needed]
Pistol grips (on rifles) reduce the angle (and thus rotational strain) of the wrist.
Bayonet mounts are often on civilian firearms due to the same parts being used on both government and civilian rifles[6]
Flash suppressors shield the shooter's vision, as well as those beside or behind the user.[7]
Threaded barrels mount flash suppressors, compensators and muzzle brakes both used for aiding recoil management.
Barrel mounted grenade launcher mounts are concentric rings around the muzzle.[citation needed]
A barrel shroud is a tube around the barrel designed to limit transfer of heat from the barrel to the supporting hand, or to protect a shooter from being burned by accidental contact.[8]
Magazines greater than 10 rounds[6]
Semi-automatic, functionality meaning that they can eject spent shell casings and chamber the next round without additional human action, but (as opposed to automatic firearms) only one round is fired per pull of the trigger.[

Many of those attributs are available on factory over the counter sporting guns...so again...I wonder just what was the definition of "assault weapon".

[rstrong]

Here's ex-president George HW Bush's public letter of resignation from the his lifetime membership to NRA, sent after Wayne "Armed guards in schools" LaPierre gave a speech blaming gun laws for the Oklahoma City bombing, implying that the victims were "jack-booted thugs" "wearing Nazi bucket helmets and black storm trooper uniforms."

NewYork Times: Letter of Resignation Sent By Bush to Rifle Association

....You have not repudiated Mr. LaPierre's unwarranted attack. Therefore, I resign as a Life Member of N.R.A., said resignation to be effective upon your receipt of this letter....

[Mad American]

Here's ex-president George HW Bush's public letter of resignation from the his lifetime membership to NRA, sent after Wayne "Armed guards in schools" LaPierre gave a speech blaming gun laws for the Oklahoma City bombing, implying that the victims were "jack-booted thugs" "wearing Nazi bucket helmets and black storm trooper uniforms."

NewYork Times: Letter of Resignation Sent By Bush to Rifle Association

....You have not repudiated Mr. LaPierre's unwarranted attack. Therefore, I resign as a Life Member of N.R.A., said resignation to be effective upon your receipt of this letter....

Following is the letter of resignation sent last week by former President George Bush to the National Rifle Association: May 3, 1995

Pretty bad when all you can find is nearly twenty year old news!

[rstrong]

Here's ex-president George HW Bush's public letter of resignation from the his lifetime membership to NRA, sent after Wayne "Armed guards in schools" LaPierre gave a speech blaming gun laws for the Oklahoma City bombing, implying that the victims were "jack-booted thugs" "wearing Nazi bucket helmets and black storm trooper uniforms."

NewYork Times: Letter of Resignation Sent By Bush to Rifle Association

....You have not repudiated Mr. LaPierre's unwarranted attack. Therefore, I resign as a Life Member of N.R.A., said resignation to be effective upon your receipt of this letter....

History repeated itself yet again. Not just with yet another mass shooting, but with the NRA's goddamned stupid response. President Bush I's claims are 100% relevant today. Anyone with two working brain cells and an ounce of honesty can see that.

[O Really]

LaPierre, setting forth the argument of only a minority of even NRA members, much less those who own guns but don't drool, clearly demonstrates a lack of concern for actual security measures. The argument that criminals are afraid of "good guys" with guns or that more guns in schools, bars, golf courses, yada will deter evil use of guns is ridiculous. Sure, if all criminals were rational, normal thinking people, they'd rather hit somewhere that's unarmed. Just like residential security measures can reduce the chance of a robbery-intended home invasion. But those who shoot up schools, for example, don't expect to live - in some cases don't care if they do or prefer not to. Some Zimmerman wannabe sitting in the hallway is going to be a deterrent? Seriously? Or is going to be able to shoot the crazy bad guy before getting shot? Right. On the other hand, let some kid in a hoodie be late for school and try to sneak onto campus and ...opps!

[mike]

To me, every gun is an "assault weapon" and has, basically, that as its only purpose.

Don't quibble about the definition thereof with me.

[mike]

Thousands sign US petition to deport Piers Morgan

Translation: Thousands of Second Amendment supporters hate the First Amendment.

Indeed, don't quibble about the definition of the First Amendment, that guy (Morgan) is a "furriner!"

Idiots ...

[rstrong]

Thousands sign US petition to deport Piers Morgan

Translation: Thousands of Second Amendment supporters hate the First Amendment.

Indeed, don't quibble about the definition of the First Amendment, that guy (Morgan) is a "furriner!"

Idiots ...

No, they're being entirely consistant with American policy.

Take for example the article that started the "Congress Is Quietly Abandoning the 5th Amendment" thread. The article makes it clear - at least 11 times - that the only complaint is about it happening to American citizens. Those who are not American citizens - say, a Canadian transiting from Europe to Canada through a New York airport or a European citizen kidnapped from Europe - can still be imprisoned indefinitely without charges or trial. (And shipped off-shore for torture, etc.)

Or take US drone policy. It doesn't matter to Americans in general that in the now hundreds of attacks on suspected terrorists, the US has shown no hesitation in launching against them when they're surrounded by innocent bystanders. At least 174 children have been killed by those drone strikes. 49 innocent civilians are killed for every known terrorist, according to a joint study by Stanford and New York Universities. The authors lay much of the blame on the use of the ‘double-tap’ strike where a drone fires one missile – and then a second as rescuers try to drag victims from the rubble. As international law experts have noted, intentional strikes on first responders may constitute war crimes.

And yet the only major protest about this from within America is that in a couple of those attacks, Americans were targeted.

The idea that foreigners do not have 1st amendment rights is entirely consistent with them not having 5th amendment rights or the right to not be murdered by the US government. It's a comparatively minor issue, actually.

[neoplacebo]

Well, it's been US policy for over 40 years now, and not a big issue, except to the folks being blasted. Our leaders have become expert hypocrites.

[mike]

I'm not sure if the 1st Amendment applies to legal aliens. If not, it's still tragic that tens of thousands of gun nuts spit on the spirit if not the letter of it and want Big Brother to be their nanny. That they are so afraid of an unarmed Brit with opinions is no surprise.

The gun nuts always get skeered when the truth about guns is revealed.