The LEO thread

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Mr.B
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Re: The LEO thread

Unread post by Mr.B »

O Really wrote:Black teenagers 21 times more likely to be killed by police than white teenagers.
LINK
Granted, cops seem to be a little more trigger-happy lately, but it appears that there is more frequent challenging of cops....and most of the challenges come from young Blacks. Also, there are cell-phone/tablet videos that show when people are pulled over, they get very arrogant with the cops so as to get a rise in their anger.
Some of these confrontations are intentional so the idiots can post it on YouTube or Facebook.

Confrontations with young whites generally are foul-mouthed verbalisms, while young Blacks tend to get verbal and physical.

I'm not saying that cops are not at fault, but lack of or limited training in dealing with jerks needs to be scrutinized and improved.

There's plenty that can be said pro and con about the law officers and the people they deal with.

Video
Video

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O Really
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Re: The LEO thread

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There are pros and cons, but one must ask first, who's responsibility is it to handle the situation? A cop's job is to maintain order, and to protect citizens from disorder. If they aren't trained, or psychologically incapable of containing and de-escalating a situation without shooting old guys with "rifle-looking" canes, then the finger of blame can go way on up higher than just the hot-head (or frightened) cop and the cop/SWAT mentality.

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O Really
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Re: The LEO thread

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Vrede wrote:O Really, the idea that the death penalty is a good thing because there are more people working to prove innocence, if the innocent isn't killed first, seems pretty nutty to me. Not necessarily that you're nutty, it's just nutty.
Yes, looked at with that connotation, it would indeed be nutty. But that's not really what I said. I just don't think the problem in this particular case is the death penalty. I think that the problem is bad lawyering, corrupt or lazy law enforcement, prejudiced/bigoted prosecutors, yada. It's only a hypothetical "side benefit" that the defenders worked harder to avoid a death penalty than they would have for a life or semi-life sentence.

Mr.B
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Re: The LEO thread

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Vrede wrote:"Mr.B, what evidence do you have, other than your prejudices......"
I knew that would be coming from you. You would be great at creating commercials for political candidates; you have just the amount of sleaze lingo they need to bash their opponents. Show me evidence where I'm prejudiced?

".....that young blacks are any more likely to get physical than young whites?"
YouTube much?

As O'Really pointed out in another thread, older, more intelligent people tend to be the ones who watch the news the most; I watch the news; I'm referencing what I see in the news. Now, your prejudice against me aside, can you prove that that young blacks aren't any more likely to get physical than young whites?"....or are you just blowing smoke out your ass again?


"And, why exactly should blacks be subservient and deferential when they are rousted more and, for example, arrested many times more often for drugs despite roughly equal usage with whites?"
I've not denied that racial profiling isn't a factor in the number of arrests; the subject is O'Really's link, not drug busts that you favor to abolish.
Pay attention.

Maybe all who are stopped by the police should display the attitude of the one in the first video I linked..... "It's not against the law to speed....."

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O Really
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Re: The LEO thread

Unread post by O Really »

Mr.B wrote:
As O'Really pointed out in another thread, older, more intelligent people tend to be the ones who watch the news the most; I watch the news;
I think what I said was that older, more educated people tend to watch the evening news shows, which is why a lot of ads - political and otherwise - seem to be directed at an older demographic. That demographic wouldn't necessarily apply to all "news" shows or all "news" media.

But since it was my link about black teenagers getting killed 21 times more frequently than white ones, I'll see if I can find something to support your theory that the black ones are asking for it.

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O Really
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Re: The LEO thread

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Here's one that provides discussion fodder... http://westerncriminology.org/documents ... urigio.pdf

Seems to be a chicken and egg deal - Police tend to disrespect black/hispanic kids more, kids react poorly.


Experiences with the police. A few studies have
found that treatment by the police (respect versus
disrespect) was an important predictor of juveniles' attitude
toward the police (e.g., Friedman et al. 2004). In the
present investigation, students' experiences with the police
were measured by using a set of dummy variables. The
dummy variables differentiated students not stopped by the
police, students stopped and respected by the police, and
students stopped and disrespected by the police. Students
who were stopped and respected by the police were used
as the comparison group for the analyses.
The variables used for not being stopped, being
stopped and respected, or being stopped and disrespected
by the police were generated from questions that followed
a skip pattern in the survey instrument. Students were
asked if the police had ever stopped them. Students were
then asked whether they were respected or not during the
stop. Ignoring the skip pattern in the survey would have
introduced incidental selection bias into the model.
Incidental selection bias is a methodological artifact that
occurs when data are dropped from an analysis in an
artificial (incidental to the method) instead of a random
(non-artifactual) process.
Students who had not been stopped would have been
excluded from the analysis through the incidental selection
process. These students might be different from students
who had been stopped on characteristics related to the
study's outcomes; the not-stopped students would have
been missed in the analysis unless they were captured by
the survey structure and coding of the data. As mentioned
above, dummy variables were created to prevent incidental
selection bias and ensure that the entire sample of students
(stopped and not stopped by the police) was included in
the analyses.
The data were reviewed for inconsistencies in
participants' responses and for coding errors that resulted
from the survey's skip pattern. For example, some
participants responded that they had not been stopped by
the police but then indicated that they had been respected
or disrespected by the police. Other variations in responses
also created inconsistencies. A review of the data
identified 37 cases (4%) with inconsi

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O Really
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Re: The LEO thread

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Yes, I know it's not completely on point, but it's related. While individuals may respond differently to being disrespected (some with resistance, some not), I think it's clear that disrespect breeds a negative reaction. Anyway, that's what I found in a short time to work on Mr.B's research, given what he pays me. :P

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indago
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Re: The LEO thread

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Journalist Sadie Gurman wrote for The Associated Press 14 October 2014:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A federal jury on Tuesday found five Denver sheriff's deputies used excessive force against a homeless street preacher who died in the city's downtown jail and awarded his family a record $4.65 million in damages, a verdict an attorney said should send a message to law enforcement everywhere.

..."Your actions call for consequences."

...Former Sheriff Gary Wilson resigned in July as the city agreed to pay $3.3 million to settle another federal jail-abuse lawsuit by a former inmate over a beating. It had been the largest payout in city history to settle a civil rights case. ..."The community won't tolerate this anymore, and things have to change," Booker family attorney Darold Killmer said. "This verdict should reverberate around the country. This is a sign that people are not going to put up with it anymore."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

article

These awards should come right out of the police budget.

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O Really
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Re: The LEO thread

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Here's one, falsely convicted, cleared after 30 years - no death penalty, serving 25 to life. So maybe I'm wrong. Some might work as hard for a lifer as for a death row resident. Of course, it begs the question, is 30 years for a crime you didn't commit better than being dead?
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Da ... 51582.html

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indago
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Re: The LEO thread

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From The Associated Press 16 October 2014:
------------------------------------------------------------------
Phoenix police spokesman Sgt. Trent Crump late Wednesday night announced the arrests of the "two outstanding suspects" in the shooting of the Department of Public Safety officer during a traffic stop.
------------------------------------------------------------------

article


From The Associated Press 16 October 2014:
------------------------------------------------------------------
MARYSVILLE, Wash. (AP) -- Multiple shots were fired Wednesday night at patrol cars and police stations in three Washington state cities. When the gunfire stopped, a police officer had been injured and a person was in custody, authorities said.
------------------------------------------------------------------

article


From The Chicago Tribune 16 October 2014:
------------------------------------------------------------------
Two McHenry County sheriff's deputies responded to a call of a domestic dispute in the 1300 block of West Northeast Shore Drive early Thursday when a man involved in the dispute opened fire, wounding them both, said Holiday Hills Village President Dan Drury.
------------------------------------------------------------------

article


Looks like some folks are getting tired of police harassment and shooting people.

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O Really
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Re: The LEO thread

Unread post by O Really »

That brings up an interesting point - no matter how tired people are of police shooting unarmed citizens, it's never going to be in the citizens' best interest to shoot at cops. But I think if cops are not in uniform and come banging into somebody's house that shooting at them should be justified. If they knock on the door at 6:00pm and show their badges, fine. If they show up bashing the door at 2:00am, why should shooting them not be a reasonable and justifiable response? Of course, even then, the citizen is still more likely to be killed than the cops. There was a case in Florida a few years ago (actually more than one), where police broke into a guy's house and got shot at. The guy lived in a fairly high crime area, and had had trouble with break-ins. And it wasn't even his house where the cops were supposed to be. Killed him.

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Boatrocker
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Re: The LEO thread

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O Really wrote:That brings up an interesting point - no matter how tired people are of police shooting unarmed citizens, it's never going to be in the citizens' best interest to shoot at cops.
To paraphrase something you said in the Big Brother thread, that depends greatly on how you define "best interests."
People are crazy and times are strange. I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range.
I used to care, but, things have changed.

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O Really
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Re: The LEO thread

Unread post by O Really »

Boatrocker wrote:
O Really wrote:That brings up an interesting point - no matter how tired people are of police shooting unarmed citizens, it's never going to be in the citizens' best interest to shoot at cops.
To paraphrase something you said in the Big Brother thread, that depends greatly on how you define "best interests."
Ha! Good point. But in this case I'd say "best interests" is defined by "staying alive" "not getting shot/tasered/sprayed/batoned" "avoiding criminal charges" "staying out of jail" etc.

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Boatrocker
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Re: The LEO thread

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Can't say I find it reasonable to maintain that a group of people, dressed in dark clothing, bursting into a darkened home with no knock or notice, should first be interrogated to ascertain that they are "authorized" to come in and shoot me before I shoot back. No knock warrants are an abomination that should be used sparingly and with severe oversight and consequences in the event of mistakes. Those documented mistakes almost always result in civilian casualty, including death, and are too often dismissed with an, "Opps," and nothing more.
People are crazy and times are strange. I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range.
I used to care, but, things have changed.

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O Really
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Re: The LEO thread

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Boatrocker wrote:Can't say I find it reasonable to maintain that a group of people, dressed in dark clothing, bursting into a darkened home with no knock or notice, should first be interrogated to ascertain that they are "authorized" to come in and shoot me before I shoot back. No knock warrants are an abomination that should be used sparingly and with severe oversight and consequences in the event of mistakes. Those documented mistakes almost always result in civilian casualty, including death, and are too often dismissed with an, "Opps," and nothing more.
I couldn't agree more.

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O Really
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Re: The LEO thread

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Vrede wrote:I wonder how many cops' pics are on memorial walls because they did something wrong, stupid or illegal?
I don't know, but you can find out here... http://www.nleomf.com/

I clicked on the "Recently Fallen" and on the first page found one killed in a training accident, one killed chasing somebody on his motorcycle, another auto crash, and one swept away in her car in a flood. One on the first page was killed serving a warrant.

I think high speed chases for minor offenses falls into the category of "wrong and stupid" if not illegal.

Mr.B
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Re: The LEO thread

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O Really
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Re: The LEO thread

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Dude's lucky he didn't get shot.
He's correct, of course, that police driving unmarked cars shouldn't be allowed to pull over motorists, but still...
Maybe not in WA, but given the trigger-happy habits of Florida and some other cops, that was a really stupid thing to do.

Mr.B
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Re: The LEO thread

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Glad to see they caught the snatcher of that young lady in Philadelphia......also glad to see he was Black. Where's all the outrage from the Black community?

Had he been white, Philly would be in pandemonium and flames by now.

Now Mama's gonna get on TV proclaiming her son is a good boy and wouldn't do "nuttin' wrong". :roll:

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Re: The LEO thread

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"Pandemonium and flames" have generally occurred when somebody not clearly having done anything wrong is shot/killed/beaten/tasered to death, yada. I can't think of any instance where pandemonium and flames resulted from an abductor/kidnapper/assaulter/killer of any race or color being caught, arrested, and hauled in. You really expect "outrage" from the Black community because this guy was caught?

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