The Religion Thread

[rstrong]

Religious Vader

More terrifying than the original!

[O Really]

...A mighty salamander is our lord.

Newt is God?

Yes, but 'e got betta.

[JTA]

The GOP rejected God in favor of a Mormon?

What if God is a Mormon and Joseph Smith was right?

[JTA]

This whole "debate" over whether or not the US is a Christian nation founded on Christian principles shouldn't even be a debate. You can read right there plain as day the letters Jefferson wrote to John Adams, which due to the nature of being letters between two close friends, probably express the two very important founders and early presidents most intimate beliefs!

As far as Jefferson, who both parties like to claim ownership of, he was most certainly a deist. It's clear as day. During his presidency people would often try to disparage him by calling him an atheist, which he was not, sort of. Before the second Great Awakening religion, especially in Anglican dominated VA, was on the wane with religious leaders lamenting that church pews remained empty and people were abandoning religion. But back to Jefferson's religious views, it's obvious he has a great deal of respect for the character of Jesus. He says in his letters to Adams that Jesus understood deficiencies of Judaism's notion of God, morality, and brought to the Jews principles of pure deism and morality. Jesus "reformed their moral doctrines to the standard of reason, justice, and philanthropy...". Jefferson also believed Jesus's system of morality was the most benevolent that had ever been taught and the most perfect of any ancient philosopher, but because he didn't commit anything to writing and passed his teachings down orally his disciples eventually perverted his teachings. Jefferson is a Christian in the sense he follows the teachings of Jesus, believing Jesus's system of morals was the most rational ever presented!

The founders were no doubt "Christian", and religion was probably important to them, but back then I think reason was more important of a guiding principle than religion. I rarely, if ever, see any mentions of faith in their writings, unlike politicians nowadays who constantly use it to embellish the fake masks they don to lure in values voters, but what I do see is tons of references to reason. People try to read all kinds of things into the founders but those same people obviously pick and choose bits and pieces from their writings completely out of context.

So my conclusion? The founders were "Christian", as were most of the people in the US at the time, and it's undeniable that Christianity had some role in the development of the US being that the US is an offshoot of Western European civilization, of which Christianity historically played a very central role. History is not a vacuum. But all you have to do is open a book right there plain as day you'll see that notions of "faith" that you hear constantly about today were nowhere near as important as notions of reason were for the founding fathers.

The question "Is the US a Christian nation?" is ridiculous.

[rstrong]

One could far more easily credit the Pagans. That is, the pre-Christian Romans, Greeks and Egyptians who gave us the very foundations of society, culture, science, philosophy, literature and drama.

[rstrong]

For insomnia sufferers, only five more sleeps!

[JTA]

One could far more easily credit the Pagans. That is, the pre-Christian Romans, Greeks and Egyptians who gave us the very foundations of society, culture, science, philosophy, literature and drama.

Exactly.

[bannination]

[JTA]

Only 39 shopping days left until Saturnalia.

Man tell me about it. Shit has already hit the fan here. People are whigging the F out and it's not even Black Friday...

I got stuck in traffic in the worst road in the state for what seemed like an eternity the other day by forgetting what time of the year it was. I just wanted to go to Home Depot . They just built a Cabela's here a few months ago in the worst possible spot in world, which does not help the situation.

Boatrocker probably knows what I'm talking about.

[rstrong]

Evolution ------> Tea Party Republicans.

Why do we call inbreeding in dogs "PEDIGREE", but when humans inbreed we call it "TEA PARTY?"

[bannination]

Evolution ------> Tea Party Republicans.

Why do we call inbreeding in dogs "PEDIGREE", but when humans inbreed we call it "TEA PARTY?"

[Mr.B]

"Why do we call inbreeding in dogs "PEDIGREE", but when humans inbreed we call it "TEA PARTY?"

I thought they were called "Canadians".........

[Boatrocker]

Only 39 shopping days left until Saturnalia.

Man tell me about it. Shit has already hit the fan here. People are whigging the F out and it's not even Black Friday...

I got stuck in traffic in the worst road in the state for what seemed like an eternity the other day by forgetting what time of the year it was. I just wanted to go to Home Depot . They just built a Cabela's here a few months ago in the worst possible spot in world, which does not help the situation.

Boatrocker probably knows what I'm talking about.

Shoulda just driven down to Simpsonville and the Home Depot there.

[O Really]

I can't believe Jersey boy JTA is whining about a little Greenville traffic. And whining to people who've lived in and dealt with real city traffic. Whatsmatta, you don't remember driving the Surekill?

[bannination]

I complain about Hendersonville traffic.... or at least those drivers that for some reason think it's ok to drive 35 mph in a 50mph zone.

[JTA]

I can't believe Jersey boy JTA is whining about a little Greenville traffic. And whining to people who've lived in and dealt with real city traffic. Whatsmatta, you don't remember driving the Surekill?

Man I grew up in the NJ sticks in a farm town whose economy ran off of pizza parlors and dollar stores. Traffic was non-existent there. Greenville is a teeming metropolis compared to my home town.

On Woodruff road you'll get stuck in traffic and then people will pull up and block the lanes so that when you get the green light you can't move anyway and have to wait for the next one.

The worst it's ever been for me was driving back home one year the day before 4th of July on a Friday. No lie when I say traffic was a mess all the way from DC through Delaware. Normally it takes 10-11 hours to get to my hometown, this particular trip if I remember correctly took 14-15. I've never had to take a leak as bad as that day when Delaware in their brilliant wisdom decided to close down all of but one lane on 295 and I was sitting waiting to cross the bridges. I had downed a bunch of coffee and coke trying to stay awake and felt like my bladder was going to pop. If I happened to have an adult diaper on at the time I would've taken full advantage of all the benefits of convenience they have to offer. Thus was born my hatred of Delaware. Delaware is basically South Jersey lite minus sales taxes. Or maybe South Jersey is Delaware lite I don't know.

[O Really]

Anything on I-95 is misery on holidays. One 4th I hit 4 accidents, totalling 5 hours extra driving up from Florida. Same as you, what should have been 8 hours turned into 13. Unhappy wife, unhappy life Dogs were whining, everybody's butt was sore.

My favorite Delaware story is back in '76 or so when there had been several relatively mild winters. The winter of '76 was the worst for over 30ish years and Delaware hadn't bought or stocked much salt. Driving across the state line from PA was like hitting a snow bank. The Delaware "turnpike" all 15 minutes of it, I think is still the most expensive toll road per mile in the country.

[JTA]

Anything on I-95 is misery on holidays. One 4th I hit 4 accidents, totalling 5 hours extra driving up from Florida. Same as you, what should have been 8 hours turned into 13. Unhappy wife, unhappy life Dogs were whining, everybody's butt was sore.

My favorite Delaware story is back in '76 or so when there had been several relatively mild winters. The winter of '76 was the worst for over 30ish years and Delaware hadn't bought or stocked much salt. Driving across the state line from PA was like hitting a snow bank. The Delaware "turnpike" all 15 minutes of it, I think is still the most expensive toll road per mile in the country.

I know all too well what you're talking about. That tiny piece of interstate they charge you 7 dollars to drive on. If you cross the memorial bridges from NJ then drive through Delaware it puts you in the hole 10 bucks at least.

And to make matters worse they only take cash!!!

(well EZ pass too but that doesn't count)

[Boatrocker]

I complain about Hendersonville traffic.... or at least those drivers that for some reason think it's ok to drive 35 mph in a 50mph zone.

In the left lane. What does Mr. B drive, anyway?

[Mr.B]

"What does Mr. B drive, anyway?"

Except mine's tan.