Execution Methods

[JTA]

"painlessly" for a murderer is not a huge consideration for me, my issue is with the pain caused to society by executions. Unlike many so-called cons, I don't trust government with that power and don't think it makes the world less dangerous.

I'm fairly confident that we will eventually end the death penalty here, I'm not going to speculate on what future punishments we devise. For now, life without possibility of parole suits me.

I can see your point about giving the government the power to decide who lives and who dies. Most people, despite how objective they may claim to be, are still somewhat governed by emotions, subjective opinions, and innate prejudices. Some more so, some less so than others. There's simply no escaping that reality in my opinion since we're shaped by past experiences. It seems like you oppose executions because there could be some sliver of possibility the individual could be innocent, and that allowing the government the power over life and death opens up the possibility of a sliding down a slippery slope to other worrisome possibilities.

By pains that executions cause society, are you referring to the info you posted above that states that executions are more costly in terms of money than simply housing inmates in prison for the rest of their lives? Or the statistic you posted that points out that states that haven't outlawed executions are typically more violent? Does this prove that making executions illegal would curb violent crime? I agree with O Really that executions aren't really a good deterrent, which is what I assume you were getting at with that statistic. Regardless, if we use the individual in the example above, I suppose whatever option costs society less and does the least amount of harm to society and other individuals who may cross his path after his incarceration is the better option to go with since that individual is essentially dead to society anyway.

One last question for anyone who may know: I'm no expert on how the criminal justice system works, but if someone commits an especially heinous crime, are they guaranteed to be locked away by themselves with minimal contact with other inmates and prison staff? Are death row inmates generally locked up alone? The reason I ask is does housing someone that's especially demented in prison put even more people at risk as opposed to executing them?

[O Really]

Tom Cruise leads him to the prison where he'll serve his sentence and hooks him to the prison machine. The serial killer is put under to sleep the rest of his life away. Tubes provide him with nourishment keeping him alive until some time later when he dies of old age. Do you think this is a good substitute for the death penalty?

I like it if he also becomes an organ donor. Pull a kidney now, a lung in a couple of months, chunk of liver later.

[JTA]

Tom Cruise leads him to the prison where he'll serve his sentence and hooks him to the prison machine. The serial killer is put under to sleep the rest of his life away. Tubes provide him with nourishment keeping him alive until some time later when he dies of old age. Do you think this is a good substitute for the death penalty?

I like it if he also becomes an organ donor. Pull a kidney now, a lung in a couple of months, chunk of liver later.

Tom Cruise isn't dead yet.

[neoplacebo]

Maybe if the prisons in this country were actually organized in such a way as to emphasize rehabilitation over mere incarceration, the death penalty may become obsolete. I've read about prisons in some Scandinavian countries that operate this way, and have been since the 1970's. I sort of think that if an inmate could be able to actually earn the 40 or 50 or 60 thousand dollars a year that it ultimately costs to hold him for a certain period of time, he probably wouldn't be in prison in the first place, and would prefer to be making that money instead of sitting in prison. But then, again, I am cognizant of the notion that there will always be a few who are incorrigible, criminally insane, habitual shoplifters, sexual predators, and rabid nutjobs. I discard them since they have no affinity for moral or legal responsibility.....it's like Tiny said in the Hell's Angels book: "We're the one percenters, man. The one percent that don't fit and don't care. People are just gonna have to learn to stay out of our way."

[JTA]

Maybe if the prisons in this country were actually organized in such a way as to emphasize rehabilitation over mere incarceration, the death penalty may become obsolete. I've read about prisons in some Scandinavian countries that operate this way, and have been since the 1970's. I sort of think that if an inmate could be able to actually earn the 40 or 50 or 60 thousand dollars a year that it ultimately costs to hold him for a certain period of time, he probably wouldn't be in prison in the first place, and would prefer to be making that money instead of sitting in prison. But then, again, I am cognizant of the notion that there will always be a few who are incorrigible, criminally insane, habitual shoplifters, sexual predators, and rabid nutjobs. I discard them since they have no affinity for moral or legal responsibility.....it's like Tiny said in the Hell's Angels book: "We're the one percenters, man. The one percent that don't fit and don't care. People are just gonna have to learn to stay out of our way."

They need to rehabilitate all those non-violent drug offenders and help get them off the marijuanas and reefers. Junkies to Jesus.

[O Really]

About a million and a half drug arrests last year, about half for grass. http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... ds-in-2012
Where are all the anti-gummint waste people when you need them?

[neoplacebo]

Heh, one of them just resigned from Congress the other day because he bought cocaine from an undercover in DC. The rest of them are lying low for now.

[Mr.B]

"Only a certified drooler would think it appropriate for the state to have the option to pull out teeth, chop off limbs, or proscribe the criminal being eaten by pigs."

Unfortunately the Constitution defines that as "cruel and unusual" punishment....even though many criminals deserved/deserve that.

"painlessly" for a murderer is not a huge consideration for me, my issue is with the pain caused to society by executions."

So tell us about this "pain caused to society". I didn't feel a thing, physically or mentally, when that guy was put to death last week for the
rape/murder of that young pregnant woman. The only thing I did "feel" was relief that he would never harm another person. Did anyone else feel anything?

So tell me this....should the Boston Marathon bomber be executed for his role in his fanatical crime spree?
US seeks death penalty for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev

[O Really]

There are undoubtedly some really bad-ass characters in prison. People whose whole life has been in the business of violent crime. People who couldn't function in "polite society" no matter what. Who have their own version of the Garth Brooks' "Friends in Low Places" attitude. Problem is, there are also those in prison who weren't into "the life" before, but get an education in criminality while incarcerated. Hardly anyone comes out of prison a better person for the experience. For the hard core violent offender - lock them up and don't consider letting them out. Bu there needs to be a better approach for others. There is technology available to restrict movement and track people - if they aren't violent, why are they in prison? If a person commits a financial crime, doesn't it make sense to have a financial punishment? C'mon, where are all you "punishment fits the crime" people? Why are these people in prison? You can take away their assets, make them work for next to nothing in community service - lots of alternatives.

[O Really]

So tell me this....should the Boston Marathon bomber be executed for his role in his fanatical crime spree?
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Sure - let's make him a martyr, symbol of American blood-lust, picture on al qaeda recruitment posters world-wide. Or maybe just put him away with little fanfare forever.

[Mr.B]

ding-dong, ding-dong! Martyrs aren't made by being executed, only when they die themselves when killing someone else, or while in an actual fight for their
cause. Saddam was pissed because he was going to be hanged, which amounted to a shameful death. <tsk> <tsk>

[Mr.B]

I stand corrected...EXCEPT: I have never in my life heard Jesus referred to as a martyr. Jesus was the Messiah, Savior, Son of God....martyr? hardly.

In reviewing the notes in Wikipedia, I see this:

11. Stephen Finlan, The Background and Content of Paul's Cultic Atonement Metaphors (Atlanta, GA: SBL, 2004), pp. 193 – 210
12. Sam K. Williams, Death as Saving Event: The Background and Origin of a Concept (Missoula, MT: Scholars Press for Harvard Theological Review, 1975), pp. 38 – 41.
13. David Seeley, The Noble Death (Sheffield: JSOT Press, 1990), pp. 83 – 112.
14. Stanley Stowers, A Rereading of Romans: Justice, Jews, and Gentiles (Ann Arbor: Yale University Press, 1997), p. 212f.
15. Jarvis J. Williams, Maccabean Martyr Traditions in Paul's Theology of Atonement (Eugene, OR: Wipf and Stock, 2010)
16. S. A. Cummins, Paul and the Crucified Christ in Antioch (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2001).

Modern day ideas and opinions. Somebody had some books for sale.

[Ombudsman]

I stand corrected...EXCEPT: I have never in my life heard Jesus referred to as a martyr.

LOL - What? You must not know what the word martyr means. Jesus popularized martyrdom. He's the reason guys like you so desperately want to be perceived as victims.

[O Really]

Expand your education a bit, Mr.B... http://www.cuf.org/2002/07/learning-fro ... he-martyr/

[Mr.B]

"I have never in my life heard Jesus referred to as a martyr."

"Expand your education a bit, Mr.B..."

That explains why I've never heard of such....I'm not Catholic.

[Mr.B]

"LOL - What? You must not know......He's the reason guys like you......"

Sure's strange how you suddenly pop out of the woodwork after I post......your obsession with me is unnerving.

[Mr.B]

The 'version' I use doesn't involves saints, statues, martyrs, and a chain of command dressed in glittering attire......
I apologize that my ignorance is so overwhelming....to you, that is; O'Great One Who Is So Well-Versed in All That Concerns Religion.

O'Great One

[Mr.B]

"Childish response."
I thought it was a pretty good response myself; funny too.

"Link a definition of "martyr" that excludes Jesus as being one. Good luck."
No.....not really that interested in pursuing something I do not believe.

"I know more about English and competent research than I do religion."
Ask me if I care.

[neoplacebo]

This is obviously an "opps" for the hopeful.

[O Really]

"I have never in my life heard Jesus referred to as a martyr."

"Expand your education a bit, Mr.B..."

That explains why I've never heard of such....I'm not Catholic.

No, it has nothing to do with being Catholic. It has to do with being well-read, or having an education even on things you may not agree with. Or being able and willing to research something you don't know. I'm not Catholic either. Nor am I Buddhist but if you want to discuss Buddhism I can hold up my part. Are you saying now that Catholics aren't Christians, too?