Slavery By Another Name

[O Really]

[GoCubsGo]

Hey, isn't that part of Ulysses' state?

What a slaver.

[Vrede too]

Far more relevant to this discussion, not that Useless will ever admit it, is the fact that he and we have all benefited from White privilege for our post-Civil War ancestors and continuing for ourselves. That's the American, all of it, tragedy.

That, and if IIRC he was at one point attempting to guilt us for the possibility of having European ancestors who may or may not have benefitted from slavery while his own forefathers were supposedly squeaky clean and he sleeps well at night (NOT!).

Yep, and in my case Useless turned learning that some of my ancestors were German Jews into an opportunity to express his vile antisemitism.
viewtopic.php?p=153240#p153240

Idk if Useless has actual 'Good German' ancestors, but he certainly is an ideological descendant of them.

Cower, Useless, cower.

( )

Do try to not be such a comedic moron.

M'kay?

[Ulysses]

Were they slaves?

[Ulysses]

1) My family moved to California in 1963. About 100 years after slavery was abolished all across America.

2) Technically the Chinese that built the Central Pacific portion of the transcontinental railroad were not slaves. However they were paid about 10-20% less than the Irish workers. And they had harsher jobs, in part due to the more dangerous conditions of the California Sierra Nevada mountains.

3) The Chinese labourers staged a labor strike in protest over their lower wages. See link. It was ended when the head of the Central Pacific, Charles Crocker, cut off their food and other supplies.

4) Sure, California has a history of racism, not only against the Chinese, but also against the native Californians and immigrants from Mexico. But, AFAIK, it was never a slave state, at least not like most of the pre-Civil War South.

5) Racism still persists all across America.

6) I had to go to work when I was a pre-teen to help support my family in the one of the most expensive cities in America. Where was all your concern then?

[Vrede too]

( )

Forget ancient history.

Human trafficking in California

... California is particularly vulnerable because of its "proximity to international borders, number of ports and airports, significant immigrant population, and large economy that includes industries that attract forced labor." It serves both as an entry point for slaves imported from outside the US as well as a destination for slaves, with major hubs centered on Los Angeles, Sacramento, San Diego, and San Francisco. According to the 2011 Department of State report, California, together with New York, Texas, and Oklahoma, has the largest concentrations of survivors of human trafficking.

I demand that you acknowledge and be accountable for how rotten your slave state is, Useless.

[Ulysses]

It should be added that, AFAIK, slavery has never been legal in the state of California. Additionally, there are today California laws prohibiting the practice of human trafficking in California. Unlike the pre-Civil War South, where slavery was both legal and widely practised.

All posts to the contrary are bitchy to the nth degree, and false.

[O Really]

Interesting article here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... ancipation.

[Ulysses]

Interesting article here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... ancipation.

Interesting, yes.

But mostly about the time before California became a state.

California/Statehood granted
September 9, 1850
In 1849, Californians sought statehood and, after heated debate in the U.S. Congress arising out of the slavery issue, California entered the Union as a free, nonslavery state by the Compromise of 1850. California became the 31st state on September 9, 1850.

https://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=23856

[Ulysses]

That, and if IIRC he was at one point attempting to guilt us for the possibility of having European ancestors who may or may not have benefitted from slavery while his own forefathers were supposedly squeaky clean and he sleeps well at night (NOT!).

Please link to a post I made where I attempted to guilt anybody for "the possibility of having European ancestors who may or may not have benefitted from slavery"...

Bearing in mind that I specifically limited my remarks to American ancestors.

[neoplacebo]

Has anyone else on BRD bothered to watch the documentary in question, "Slavery by Another Name"?

Instead of just making stupid and insensitive jokes about it?

I haven't watched it. But I am cognizant of the concept of it.......sharecroppers, convict leasing, coal miners living in company houses and being paid in company scrip and having to buy everything at the company store, being stuck in a minimum wage job. Past or present situations that are, in effect, slavery. And there's also the almost once a year story about an immigrant working as a housekeeper for some wealthy asshole who basically kept them in a condition of slavery. Just about once a year some rich bitch is convicted of this type thing. And there were the Turpin family who kept their more than a dozen kids chained up in the house until one escaped. I was waiting out on the sidewalk in anticipation of making stupid and insensitive jokes about her parents.

Here's one of those modern day slave stories I mentioned earlier. In this case it appears that the slave as well as the slavers are whiteys.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/man-admits-e ... 08498.html

[Vrede too]

Far more relevant to this discussion, not that Useless will ever admit it, is the fact that he and we have all benefited from White privilege for our post-Civil War ancestors and continuing for ourselves. That's the American, all of it, tragedy.

That, and if IIRC he was at one point attempting to guilt us for the possibility of having European ancestors who may or may not have benefitted from slavery while his own forefathers were supposedly squeaky clean and he sleeps well at night (NOT!).

Yep, and in my case Useless turned learning that some of my ancestors were German Jews into an opportunity to express his vile antisemitism.
viewtopic.php?p=153240#p153240

Idk if Useless has actual 'Good German' ancestors, but he certainly is an ideological descendant of them.

Cower, antisemitic Useless, cower.

Please link to a post I made where I attempted to guilt anybody for "the possibility of having European ancestors who may or may not have benefitted from slavery"...

Bearing in mind that I specifically limited my remarks to American ancestors.

You changed your remarks to specifically American ancestors after billy.pilgrim, O Really and even you responded to what you initially posted.
viewtopic.php?p=151382#p151382

OK, show of hands:

How many here have ancestors who owned slaves?

Me, probably. My mum's side of the family is from England, historically York, which was taken over by Vikings in the 800's, apparently accounting for the bit of Scandinavian DNA in my profile. Vikings owned slaves, apparently some Viking(s) had his/their way with my grand9-mom, so I suppose I had ancestors with slaves. Or not, I don't really know. But nobody I know about was connected to American slavery. Given the degree to which slavery was present in the world, if you go back far enough it might be difficult to find anybody whose tree didn't have either slave-owners, slaves, or both.

Slavs had serfs.

Yes but didn't one of Czars free the serfs?

Looked it up. Tsar Alexander made a speech to that effect in 1856, and by 1861 the serfs were emancipated.

Since my grandparents arrived in the USA about 40 years after that, and they were teens, I doubt they were ever serfs. They then proceeded to have something like 11 kids, all of whom lived to adulthood. I actually met my grandmother. I was very young and all I remember is she held me in her arms for about a 10 seconds. I gather she was a hard, no-nonsense woman. She'd toss a misbehaving kid across the room. So I guess I was lucky, LOL. My grandfather severely injured his arm in a Pennsylvania steel mill; the family photo shows evidence of a misshapen limb.

My Quebequois grandfather wound up in Rhode Island as a salesman for a gumball company (Ford). I remember the gum.

Busted trying to deceive, again. Lie, Useless, lie.

[Vrede too]

Forget ancient history.

I demand that you acknowledge and be accountable for how rotten your slave state is, Useless.

Yeah, that's what I figured.

It should be added that, AFAIK, slavery has never been legal in the state of California. Additionally, there are today California laws prohibiting the practice of human trafficking in California. Unlike the pre-Civil War South, where slavery was both legal and widely practised.

All posts to the contrary are bitchy to the nth degree, and false.

Statehood doesn't change historical fact, duh. Stop being so bitchy about it.

Anyhow, you actually believe that legality = reality . That's adorable. What is wrong with you Californians that you have so much modern slavery despite the supposed law?

[GoCubsGo]

Busted trying to deceive, again. Lie, Useless, lie.

Thx, I honestly didn't care enough to go back and find it.

I wonder who we could talk to at Merriam Webster to get the definition of Ulysses amended to mean 'delusional lying massive failure'?

[billy.pilgrim]

Far more relevant to this discussion, not that Useless will ever admit it, is the fact that he and we have all benefited from White privilege for our post-Civil War ancestors and continuing for ourselves. That's the American, all of it, tragedy.

That, and if IIRC he was at one point attempting to guilt us for the possibility of having European ancestors who may or may not have benefitted from slavery while his own forefathers were supposedly squeaky clean and he sleeps well at night (NOT!).

Yep, and in my case Useless turned learning that some of my ancestors were German Jews into an opportunity to express his vile antisemitism.
viewtopic.php?p=153240#p153240

Idk if Useless has actual 'Good German' ancestors, but he certainly is an ideological descendant of them.

Cower, antisemitic Useless, cower.

Please link to a post I made where I attempted to guilt anybody for "the possibility of having European ancestors who may or may not have benefitted from slavery"...

Bearing in mind that I specifically limited my remarks to American ancestors.

You changed your remarks to specifically American ancestors after billy.pilgrim, O Really and even you responded to what you initially posted.
viewtopic.php?p=151382#p151382

OK, show of hands:

How many here have ancestors who owned slaves?

Me, probably. My mum's side of the family is from England, historically York, which was taken over by Vikings in the 800's, apparently accounting for the bit of Scandinavian DNA in my profile. Vikings owned slaves, apparently some Viking(s) had his/their way with my grand9-mom, so I suppose I had ancestors with slaves. Or not, I don't really know. But nobody I know about was connected to American slavery. Given the degree to which slavery was present in the world, if you go back far enough it might be difficult to find anybody whose tree didn't have either slave-owners, slaves, or both.

Slavs had serfs.

Yes but didn't one of Czars free the serfs?

Looked it up. Tsar Alexander made a speech to that effect in 1856, and by 1861 the serfs were emancipated.

Since my grandparents arrived in the USA about 40 years after that, and they were teens, I doubt they were ever serfs. They then proceeded to have something like 11 kids, all of whom lived to adulthood. I actually met my grandmother. I was very young and all I remember is she held me in her arms for about a 10 seconds. I gather she was a hard, no-nonsense woman. She'd toss a misbehaving kid across the room. So I guess I was lucky, LOL. My grandfather severely injured his arm in a Pennsylvania steel mill; the family photo shows evidence of a misshapen limb.

My Quebequois grandfather wound up in Rhode Island as a salesman for a gumball company (Ford). I remember the gum.

Busted trying to deceive, again. Lie, Useless, lie.

Funny stuff. I had forgotten his incredible grasp of history. Who knew that having Slavic ancestry means that your ancestors were slaves because slav means slave, or some such.

(psst - owner/slaver plot hole - presumably dumnasses think the slave ownership could have been remotely handled by evil Southern Italians)

[O Really]

This thread should make it clear - as if it wasn't before - that Ulysses has no interest in discussion without adversarial positions. Most all participants in this thread have contributed something related to the original article Ulysses posted. The starting point was the PBS show regarding how the old "official" slavery may have ended, but slavery in other forms continued to and still exists in forms such as indentured servitude, forced labor, human trafficking, etc. After a couple pages or so of ribbing over Ulysses intending to "record" a streaming show, he changed the topic from "things that happen now that could be called slavery" to "whose ancestors owned slaves." And kept changing the parameters as answers came in. It appeared that participants answered with what they knew, which was little. Ulysses seemed determined to get somebody - anybody - to say "my g-g-g-great grandfather was a slave owner. For what reason, who knows. When participants went back to the original topic - "things related to slavery," Ulysses further tightened the parameters. Now it has to be "slavery" in "states" and apparently must relate only to black people being slaves in the states that became the confederacy. Just can't take "yes" for an answer, I guess.

[billy.pilgrim]

For some unknown reason he was trying to start something with me. I've been ignoring his slights until the sanctimonious twit called me a racist and the the protest too much signature was taken from a direct response to me.

I agree with removing confederate monuments, maybe it's also time to end the northern moral superiority bs.
Lincoln fought to preserve the Union. That’s it. He did end slavery in the confederate states when he had the opportunity, but that was an unintended bonus.

Question: would we be the racist country we are today, if the south had been allowed to secede?

Slavery was ending all around the world. I think Brazil where many southerners fled ended slavery in the 1880s. The South would have had a similar or sooner end if the North had completely banned importation of slave produced goods.

I've heard the argument - not one year longer
I submit that 160+ years of race hate, lynchings, Jim Crow, segregation and the which side is better bs argument ... has proven worse

[Ulysses]

This thread should make it clear - as if it wasn't before - that Ulysses has no interest in discussion without adversarial positions. Most all participants in this thread have contributed something related to the original article Ulysses posted. The starting point was the PBS show regarding how the old "official" slavery may have ended, but slavery in other forms continued to and still exists in forms such as indentured servitude, forced labor, human trafficking, etc. After a couple pages or so of ribbing over Ulysses intending to "record" a streaming show, he changed the topic from "things that happen now that could be called slavery" to "whose ancestors owned slaves." And kept changing the parameters as answers came in. It appeared that participants answered with what they knew, which was little. Ulysses seemed determined to get somebody - anybody - to say "my g-g-g-great grandfather was a slave owner. For what reason, who knows. When participants went back to the original topic - "things related to slavery," Ulysses further tightened the parameters. Now it has to be "slavery" in "states" and apparently must relate only to black people being slaves in the states that became the confederacy. Just can't take "yes" for an answer, I guess.

OK, now you're going over the edge.

For the first pages of this thread, you folks did all you could to deny and deflect the topic away from slavery, to a completely irrelevant discussion of... guess what? ROKU!!! What was up with that?

It continued to deteriorate into a discussion of irrelevant distractions, so, yes, I tried to re-focus the thread into whose ancestors owned slaves. Why? Because I was fucking tired of the flippant and holier than thou attitude expressed about slavery. That's why. Sorry if that was uncomfortable for you. And then the deflection and denial started in earnest: slavery in New England, specifically that state of my birth, Connecticut. Or about slavery in Eastern Europe. None of which is really relevant.

So guess what? You folks can continue to wallow in denial. It is shameful, but...

NOT

MY

PROBLEM

!

[O Really]

OKfine. I'll take one for the team. Turns out my when my 3-or4-G grandfather arrived from Canada, he met and wed a southern belle who had become a refugee of civil war aftermath. She was the grand daughter of a major slave owner and apparently used some of the slaves as sex toys before being banished. I'm personally mortified and don't know how I can look at myself in the mirror with her awful genes lying around somewhere in my body.

M'Kay?

[Ulysses]

NMP