Gun Legislation

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billy.pilgrim
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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by billy.pilgrim »

billy.pilgrim wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:25 am
Vrede too wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 7:59 am
billy.pilgrim wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:38 am
I still suspect this article may not be the real story. I just checked and lead is commonly used in fracking. It's listed as one of the 6 known worst chemicals used.
Okay, good to know, thanks. Fuck fracking even more than before. Still, fracking's footprint spans a small portion of the nation, and it pollutes more groundwater than surface water. I can't see it poisoning half or more of our eagles.
I don't understand what's going on. I agree that lead shot should be stopped.
https://youtu.be/jhyaYYgc5zs
but there's been such a huge reduction in consumer caused lead pollution over the past 40 years, including lead shot pellets, that its hard for me to accept this explanation for lead poisoned eagles.
As a contributing factor - absolutely.
The primary cause of something new happening to the eagles after their recent comeback must also be something new - like fracking.
Don't pollutants from fracking into ground water find their way into fresh water streams and rivers and then into fresh water fish? Eagles are huge fish eaters.

Aren't the examples in the article from the Midwest? (If I remember correctly) If so, then you are right about field dressing introducing lead to the food supply there. But even then, wouldn't feeding on offal be a bigger problem for buzzards and coyotes rather than eagles who mostly catch live prey?
Field dressing is rare in the South and likely the entire East. Roads and cars are just too close. You've probably seen pictures and even scenes in movies where Bubbas drive around with an undressed deer strapped across the hot hood of a car or truck.

I think that the quicker we eliminate lead shot, the closer we'll be to identifying the real cause. My uneducated guess is that it won't be lead shot. Since it's already been reduced, why this uptick?

Bush removed fracking from any clean water oversight regulations. Obama and Biden seem to love how it makes their economy look. The mainstream media mostly ignores it. It appears here to stay and it will cause great harm the environment and as happened with DDT, the large birds of prey will go first while the industry blames others with paid "scientific" report after financed fake sciency report.

Until then, we all have only our opinions.
And there's this. So maybe I am wrong, but I still can't see how this problem with hawks and eagles is happening after so much lead has been removed from the environment.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/19/us/b ... =url-share
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O Really
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Re: Gun Legislation

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That's a good point about the buzzards, coyotes, and other scavengers. Are they getting lead poisoning also, or does nobody care to check?

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Re: Gun Legislation

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billy.pilgrim wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:31 am
And there's this. So maybe I am wrong, but I still can't see how this problem with hawks and eagles is happening after so much lead has been removed from the environment.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/19/us/b ... study.html
Your NYT article is about the same study that I linked. Here it is without the NYT paywall:
https://news.yahoo.com/mounting-comebac ... 40625.html

You only have your opinions. I've got this science, understanding that science can be erroneous and eventually contradicted.

Sure, some fracking pollutants "find their way into fresh water streams and rivers," but one of the reasons have been able to get away with their filthy deeds is that ground water is not as heavily regulated as surface water is. The article doesn't mention lead poisoned fish as being an issue. One would hope the scientists considered that. I don't remember authorities cautioning us about lead in fresh water fish. Do you?

Bald eagles do prefer fish, while golden eagles prefer mammals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bald_eagl ... nd_feeding
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_b ... eagle#Prey
This MAY make the less numerous golden eagles more vulnerable to lead ammo, but idk. Both Wiki articles mention carrion consumption, especially in winter like the lead study states. The lead article says:
... "Every single time a lead bullet hits a deer, it fragments into many, many pieces," Todd Katzner, a research wildlife biologist at the US Geological Survey and co-author of the study, told Insider. "It only takes a tiny fragment, something the size of the head of a pin, to kill an eagle." ...
Sounds like it doesn't matter what the eagles mostly eat. A single gut pile can be a killer.

The article I linked does not cite "examples ... from the Midwest". It does say:
... The researchers examined the blood, bone, liver, and feathers of more than 1,200 eagles across 38 US states. Of that sample, 47% of bald eagles and 46% of golden eagles had signs of chronic lead poisoning. Birds with chronic or repeated exposure to lead can develop lesions, weakness while flying, or convulsions and paralysis....

"We got samples from Alaska down to Florida, from Maine to California, so we really had this wide sample size that is reflective of this nationwide pattern that we're seeing in these birds," Vince Slabe, a research wildlife biologist at the nonprofit Conservation Science Global and a co-author of the study, told Insider....
If there were regional differences in their findings, the article doesn't mention it. I don't have the energy to plow through the study to see.

The lead article doesn't mention an "uptick". Instead, it says:
... Scientists have known about lead exposure in eagles for several decades.

"Every so often, eagles end up in a rehabilitation facility. They're sick and they get X-rayed and you can see fragments of lead in their digestive tract," Katzner said.

But until Thursday's study, researchers hadn't been able to quantify how dangerous or widespread lead exposure was among US eagles....
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Re: Gun Legislation

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Vrede too wrote:
Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:52 pm
Nearly half of bald and golden eagles in the US have chronic lead poisoning, most likely from bullet fragments

Image
Lead-poisoned bald eagle admitted to The Raptor Center in Minnesota.

It's a common pattern during hunting season in the winter: Hunters shoot elk or deer, then eagles scavenge the waste....

"Every single time a lead bullet hits a deer, it fragments into many, many pieces," Todd Katzner, a research wildlife biologist at the US Geological Survey and co-author of the study, told Insider. "It only takes a tiny fragment, something the size of the head of a pin, to kill an eagle." ...

Image
Copper bullet (left) versus lead core bullet (right) before and after impact.

... "Over a 20-year period, you're talking about thousands and thousands and thousands of [eagles] that are being removed from the population," Katzner said.

Neither golden eagles nor bald eagles are endangered species. The US bald eagle population has more than quadrupled since 2009, from around 72,000 to 317,000 birds. But the US golden eagle population is still relatively small — around 30,000 birds — and at risk of declining.
On the bright side, hunters are also ingesting lead fragments.
Scientists have known about lead exposure in eagles for several decades.

"Every so often, eagles end up in a rehabilitation facility. They're sick and they get X-rayed and you can see fragments of lead in their digestive tract," Katzner said....

(Vince Slabe, a research wildlife biologist at the nonprofit Conservation Science Global and a co-author of the study) said he expects lots of hunters to "willingly switch from lead to non-lead" bullets "once they find out they're potentially poisoning animals."

The California Department of Fish and Wildlife already requires hunters to use non-lead ammunition, such as copper bullets. The New York Department of Environmental Conservation and Alaska Department of Health and Social Services advise hunters to do the same.
Slabe is dreaming. Hunter and ammosexual groups have opposed dumping lead for a long time. Copper, etc would require their Bubba members to be competent shots.
My cynical reading probably had a lot to do with "Business Insider"

Weird that I read this several days before you posted it on the 17th, but the article is dated the 18th.

As I said, maybe this is right, but I still have my doubts that lead shot is the primary cause of lead poisoning.
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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by Vrede too »

billy.pilgrim wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 2:58 pm
My cynical reading probably had a lot to do with "Business Insider"

Weird that I read this several days before you posted it on the 17th, but the article is dated the 18th.

As I said, maybe this is right, but I still have my doubts that lead shot is the primary cause of lead poisoning.
The "Business Insider" article is dated the 17th. Your NYT link is dated the 19th. The study was published in Science. I haven't looked up that article or its date of publication. I'm sure that different outlets do better or worse jobs reporting on what the Science article says.
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Re: Gun Legislation

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Vrede too wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 3:12 pm
billy.pilgrim wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 2:58 pm
My cynical reading probably had a lot to do with "Business Insider"

Weird that I read this several days before you posted it on the 17th, but the article is dated the 18th.

As I said, maybe this is right, but I still have my doubts that lead shot is the primary cause of lead poisoning.
The "Business Insider" article is dated the 17th. Your NYT link is dated the 19th. The study was published in Science. I haven't looked up that article or its date of publication. I'm sure that different outlets do better or worse jobs reporting on what the Science article says.

Why then does it say the 18th?

https://news.yahoo.com/nearly-half-bald ... 00648.html
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Re: Gun Legislation

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Re: Gun Legislation

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Internet algorithms change dates on articles all the time.
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Re: Gun Legislation

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GoCubsGo wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 7:41 pm
Internet algorithms change dates on articles all the time.
Thank you. Every time I open the article it says the 18th, including vrede's links
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Re: Gun Legislation

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GoCubsGo wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 7:41 pm
Internet algorithms change dates on articles all the time.
Every time I open the article it says the 17th. Is that our browsers? What do you see?

Is it because FL is so backwards? :P
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Re: Gun Legislation

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Greenville, SC, Whack9's hood:

12-year-old killed in South Carolina middle school shooting, 12-year-old suspect in custody

:(

The only thing that can stop a bad 12-year-old with a gun is a good 12-year-old with a gun, right NRA?
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Re: Gun Legislation

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True news, not that ammosexual RepuQs will ever believe it:
Republican-controlled states have higher murder rates than Democratic ones: study

Republican politicians routinely claim that cities run by Democrats have been experiencing crime waves caused by failed governance, but a new study shows murder rates are actually higher in states and cities controlled by Republicans.

“We’re seeing murders in our cities, all Democrat-run,” former President Donald Trump asserted at a March 26 rally in Georgia. “People are afraid to go out.”

In February, Sen. Tom Cotton, R-Ark., blamed Democrats for a 2018 law that reduced some federal prison sentences — even though it was signed by Trump after passing a GOP-controlled Congress. “It’s your party who voted in lockstep for the First Step Act that let thousands of violent felons on the street who have now committed innumerable violent crimes,” Cotton said during a speech in the Senate.
:roll: Dolt .45 even campaigned on it, both before and after passage.
Last December, Rep. Dan Crenshaw, R-Texas, told Fox News viewers, “America’s most beautiful cities are indeed being ruined by liberal policies: There’s a direct line between death and decay and liberal policies.”

But a comparison of violent crime rates in jurisdictions controlled by Democrats and Republicans tells a very different story. In fact, a new study from the center-left think tank Third Way shows that states won by Trump in the 2020 election have higher murder rates than those carried by Joe Biden. The highest murder rates, the study found, are often in conservative, rural states.

The study found that murder rates in the 25 states Trump carried in 2020 are 40% higher overall than in the states Biden won. (The report used 2020 data because 2021 data is not yet fully available.) The five states with the highest per capita murder rate — Mississippi, Louisiana, Kentucky, Alabama and Missouri — all lean Republican and voted for Trump....

Broadly speaking, the South, and to a lesser extent the Midwest, has more murders per capita than the Northeast, interior West and West Coast, the study found.

Those findings are consistent with a pattern that has existed for decades, in which the South has had higher rates of violent crime than the nation as a whole.

“We as criminologists have known this for quite some time,” Jennifer Ortiz, a professor of criminology at Indiana University Southeast, told Yahoo News. “States like Mississippi, Louisiana and Alabama have historically had high crime rates.”

Criminologists say research shows higher rates of violent crime are found in areas that have low average education levels, high rates of poverty and relatively modest access to government assistance. Those conditions characterize some portions of the American South.

“They are among the poorest states in our union,” Ortiz said of the Deep South. “They have among the highest rates of child poverty. They are among the least-educated states. They are among the states with the highest levels of substance abuse. All of those factors contribute to people engaging in criminal behavior.”

... Few large cities are governed by Republicans — only 26 of the 100 largest U.S. cities have Republican mayors — making apples-to-apples comparisons difficult. But cities that do have Republican mayors do not have lower murder rates than similarly sized Democratic-led cities, the study found....
Vote for law, order and public safety, vote Dem.
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Re: Gun Legislation

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But if you want lies, bullshit, and nonsense, vote GQP

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Re: Gun Legislation

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GoCubsGo wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 7:41 pm
Internet algorithms change dates on articles all the time.
What you don’t know about Internet algorithms is hurting you. (And you probably don’t know very much!)
...See, Pinterest is far from the only site on which computer code decides what content you see and what you do not. And on sites like Google or Facebook, now the primary news source for people under 35, algorithms aren’t just keeping you from the next great cake recipe — they could be isolating you from opposing views, exacerbating your own biases, or, as more disturbing and recent examples have shown, even perpetuating racial and gender biases of their own.

In fact, algorithms are now so widespread, and so subtle, that some sociologists worry that they function as a form of “social control.” (That is, at least, the title of a keynote at an upcoming academic conference called Theorizing the Web, where technologists and sociologists will discuss “algorithms as a type of social engineering.”)

“Quite literally, this one algorithm has changed millions of lives,” write OkCupid’s founders of their site’s matching algorithm, which — as if to prove exactly how important algorithms are to modern culture — just went up for sale as part of an “algorithm auction” in New York.

Admittedly, this is not the most accessible stuff. Even the word algorithm — a throwback to high-school calculus that no one asked for — threatens to scare off the casual Web user. But essentially, an “algorithm” is just a piece of computer code that makes a decision or recommendation of some kind....
Indeed...

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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by O Really »

"And on sites like Google or Facebook, now the primary news source for people under 35..."

I would submit there's a substantial difference in Google and Facebook. Sorta like in earlier times they might have said, "And in publications like Mad Magazine and World Book, now the primary news sources..."

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Re: Gun Legislation

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O Really wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:21 am
"And on sites like Google or Facebook, now the primary news source for people under 35..."

I would submit there's a substantial difference in Google and Facebook. Sorta like in earlier times they might have said, "And in publications like Mad Magazine and World Book, now the primary news sources..."
I don't Facebook very much, besides friends stuff I get puppies not politics.

Part of the reason I visit CPF or LNF is to see what the loonies are saying and where they get their information from.

And oftentimes after visiting those sites I feel the need for a shower.
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Re: Gun Legislation

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GoCubsGo wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:32 am
O Really wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:21 am
"And on sites like Google or Facebook, now the primary news source for people under 35..."

I would submit there's a substantial difference in Google and Facebook. Sorta like in earlier times they might have said, "And in publications like Mad Magazine and World Book, now the primary news sources..."
I don't Facebook very much, besides friends stuff I get puppies not politics.

Part of the reason I visit CPF or LNF is to see what the loonies are saying and where they get their information from.

And oftentimes after visiting those sites I feel the need for a shower.
Yeah, the thing that warps a lot of people isn't so much that they read from questionable sources, it's that they only read from questionable sources. I've had a Facebook account for years and rarely use it at all. But I can't imagine using that as a major source of information. Nowadays you pretty much have to cross-check anything you see. Of course, part of that also is an epidemic of poor writing/editing and attention-getting. I saw a headline last week that clearly pronounced that marijuana was now legal throughout the US. Sure, the article itself said that the House had passed a bill, and it might have an uphill run in the Senate, but by then the damage would have been done for a lot of casual readers. One of our local TV stations has a feature they call Verify, where they address various bits of misinformation. That's a good service and all well and good - except - they tease the feature with something like, "Alien spaceship lands in Petco - we'll look into this story on Verify" and of course by the time Verify actually comes on and debunks the alien report, a million people have heard on CBS News, they think, that an alien spacesip landed on the baseball field.

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Re: Gun Legislation

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O Really wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:48 am
Nowadays you pretty much have to cross-check anything you see. Of course, part of that also is an epidemic of poor writing/editing and attention-getting.
Big part that and a big part intentionally misleading.

A generic way oversimplification in my mind is the right will take a line or narrative that may or may not have some basis in truth and make it their own.

Saw this this morning.
https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/ ... e-dossier/

Read the thread and quote and you'd think the Hillary campaign committed some sort of high crime and deep stated their way out of it by paying a fine instead of paying for opposition research out of the wrong account or something.

The left seemingly lies more by omission, Black Lives Matter demonstrations are righteous and just and we'll ignore the destruction of property.
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Re: Gun Legislation

Unread post by billy.pilgrim »

GoCubsGo wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 12:01 pm
O Really wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:48 am
Nowadays you pretty much have to cross-check anything you see. Of course, part of that also is an epidemic of poor writing/editing and attention-getting.
Big part that and a big part intentionally misleading.

A generic way oversimplification in my mind is the right will take a line or narrative that may or may not have some basis in truth and make it their own.

Saw this this morning.
https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/ ... e-dossier/

Read the thread and quote and you'd think the Hillary campaign committed some sort of high crime and deep stated their way out of it by paying a fine instead of paying for opposition research out of the wrong account or something.

The left seemingly lies more by omission, Black Lives Matter demonstrations are righteous and just and we'll ignore the destruction of property.
You can thank a neut and Roger ailes for that.

Karl Rove gets the award for teaching them to reverse every strength and truth. CVS stockholders are currently voting to decide if diversity in hiring is racism. Of course the basis is a study by some right wing think tank that claims acknowledging races is the new and improved racism (aka Jim Crow)
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Re: Gun Legislation

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9-year-old girl shot while waiting to see Easter Bunny at California mall; store owner arrested

... Marqel Cockrell, 20, was arrested in Nevada a few hours after the shooting, the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department said Wednesday. Cockrell is co-owner of the shoe store Sole Addicts at the Mall of Victor Valley in Victorville in San Bernardino County.

Ava Chruniak, 9, was getting ready to see the Easter Bunny with her family on Tuesday when shots were fired, hitting her twice in the arm, according to her family.

Deputies responding to the shooting found the girl suffering from at least one gunshot wound. She was airlifted to a hospital in stable condition, police said.

According to the sheriff's department, Cockrell did not intend to shoot the girl but was instead chasing two shoplifters out of his store.

"Cockrell’s shots missed the shoplifters and instead hit the 9-year-old female victim," the statement said....
Ammosexual idiot. If his wares aren't insured against theft they should be. If he had hit the alleged shoplifters he still should have been arrested.
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