The LEO thread

[Vrede too]

So CalOSHA released it latest worker fatality report, covering 2020. Here's the top ten most dangerous jobs with number of fatalities:

Drivers/sales workers/truck drivers: 70
Heavy and tractor-trailer truck driver: 56
Construction laborers: 34
Grounds maintenance workers: 29
Agricultural workers: 22
Farmworkers and laborers, crop, nursery, and greenhouse: 17
Protective service workers: 17
Tree trimmers and pruners: 17
Security guards and gambling surveillance officers: 16
Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers: 14

Interestingly, cops did not yet again make the top ten, even though they're the ones that claim they "put their lives on the line every day" and they get the big parades even if they die from covid.

And that's the problem. You inferred a relationship between LEO deaths and other professions, did you not? How did you manage to arrive at that ratio without percentages, fractions, or other numerologic data? I submit it's highly misleading to say LEO's are in a much safer profession than, say, construction workers, without the full numeric analysis such a conclusion requires.

"numerologic"? You New Age Californians are a hoot!
https://numerologic.org/

Now you're just making shit up when you're floundering. O Really merely accurately shared media coverage of the CalOSHA report, as you would have rapidly seen here if your google wasn't broken.

What Are California's Most Deadly Occupations?
The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics compiled detailed statistics on how California workers died on the job in 2020.

This is why I challenged you to debunk O Really. You cowered, as usual. Any further inferences are exclusively your comprehension-challenged delusions.

However, O Really did make one error, one that you were neither smart nor informed enough to catch despite your laughable pretensions to expertise on the topic. #6 tie "Protective service workers: 17 (deaths)" includes cops and a bunch of other jobs like prison guards, firefighters, security guards, school bus monitors; crossing guards and flagger, dogcatchers, etc.
https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes330000.htm

Of course this whole conversation is silly, as the article clearly states:

Below are the 10 most dangerous jobs in California, ranked by number of recorded fatalities in 2020:

That's the metric the author chose based off the CalOSHA numbers. If anyone wants to choose a different metric then they should write their own fucking article.

Yup. Silly is what Useless does, then he digs his hole much deeper, every time.

Note: I edited slight while you were composing, adding a link for Useless' goofy "numerologic" and moving two sentences from before my link to the article to after. The new version is quoted in this post and neither change affects your reply.

[Vrede too]

Opps, I stand somewhat corrected. I did not see that they were included with "Protective Service Workers" but still, if you could take them out of the long list below and have them counted alone, they wouldn't make the top ten, which is what I originally said.

Protective Service Occupations comprises the following occupations: First-Line Supervisors of Correctional Officers; First-Line Supervisors of Police and Detectives; First-Line Supervisors of Firefighting and Prevention Workers; First-Line Supervisors of Protective Service Workers, All Other; First-Line Supervisors of Security Workers; Firefighters; Forest Fire Inspectors and Prevention Specialists; Fire Inspectors and Investigators; Bailiffs; Correctional Officers and Jailers; Detectives and Criminal Investigators; Fish and Game Wardens; Parking Enforcement Workers; Transit and Railroad Police; Police and Sheriff's Patrol Officers; Animal Control Workers; Private Detectives and Investigators; Gambling Surveillance Officers and Gambling Investigators; Security Guards; Protective Service Workers, All Other; Transportation Security Screeners; School Bus Monitors; Crossing Guards and Flaggers; Lifeguards, Ski Patrol, and Other Recreational Protective Service Workers

See how easy that is, Useless? You should try it sometime. You could begin here with your similar ignorance of what's included with "Protective Service Workers", your made up stats, and with your hallucinations about what O Really supposedly added to the CalOSHA report.

Or, just cower like you always do when your fuck-ups are proven.

[O Really]

Here's another figure to play with:
In 2020, 295 federal, state, local and tribal officers died in the line of duty - total nationally.
Nearly 200 Californians die each year in police encounters.

[Ulysses]

OK, well. I still don't see how anyone can evaluate the danger of a profession simply by counting the number of deaths without factoring the number of people engaged in the profession. This is perhaps too common a sort of sense to register with some of you?

IDK.

I do stand slightly corrected on my use of 'numerologic', because I didn't intend for it to have anything to do with numerology. I meant logic that depends on numbers, that's all. M'kay? It wasn't until I googled "numerologic" that I realized just now that it can have numerological implications. Perhaps "arithmatic" would have been a better adjective.

[O Really]

It was a very simple report: how many people died within various job group. That was the report. If you are interested in looking at a different set of numbers, the BLS crunches them a lot of different ways. They count total injuries, and they count deaths and injuries by cause. They crunch their numbers left and right and upside down.

But this report was about the number of fatalities. T-T-That's all folks.

[Vrede too]

OK, well. I still don't see how anyone can evaluate the danger of a profession simply by counting the number of deaths without factoring the number of people engaged in the profession. This is perhaps too common a sort of sense to register with some of you?

Still waiting for you to proved any evidence otherwise, any at all. Perhaps the challenge is too common a sort of sense to register with you? Cower, Useless, cower.

IDK.

No, you don't. Clearly.

I do stand slightly entirely corrected on my use of 'numerologic', because I didn't intend for it to have anything to do with numerology. I meant logic that depends on numbers, that's all. M'kay? It wasn't until I googled "numerologic" that I realized just now that it can have exclusively has numerological implications.

Perhaps "arithmatic" arithmetic would have been a better adjective.

Ftfy.

But, we all know that you meant 'numerical' and are now desperately trying to deflect from your flub, pussy.

[Ulysses]

It was a very simple report: how many people died within various job group. That was the report. If you are interested in looking at a different set of numbers, the BLS crunches them a lot of different ways. They count total injuries, and they count deaths and injuries by cause. They crunch their numbers left and right and upside down.

But this report was about the number of fatalities. T-T-That's all folks.

OK, as such, the report you reported upon is of little use, IMHO.

[Vrede too]

Opps, I stand somewhat corrected....

See how easy that is, Useless? You should try it sometime. You could begin here with your similar ignorance of what's included with "Protective Service Workers", your made up stats, and with your hallucinations about what O Really supposedly added to the CalOSHA report.

Or, just cower like you always do when your fuck-ups are proven.

As predicted.

OK, as such, the report you reported upon is of little use, IMHO.

Still waiting for you to proved any evidence otherwise, any at all.

(signature: obsessed butthurt )

Awww. , Useless. So much for "Ignored". You fail again. Plus, Useless, you've been busted too many times for anyone to believe you're not reading my posts, anyhow. It's just your excuse for cowering. Awww.

[billy.pilgrim]

OK, well. I still don't see how anyone can evaluate the danger of a profession simply by counting the number of deaths without factoring the number of people engaged in the profession. This is perhaps too common a sort of sense to register with some of you?

IDK.

I do stand slightly corrected on my use of 'numerologic', because I didn't intend for it to have anything to do with numerology. I meant logic that depends on numbers, that's all. M'kay? It wasn't until I googled "numerologic" that I realized just now that it can have numerological implications. Perhaps "arithmatic" would have been a better adjective.

https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-to ... ted-states


"based on data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries. They studied professions with minimum employment of 50,000 workers to find the 25 most dangerous jobs among 263 total professions in the study. The fatality rate was normalized by adjusting the number of fatalities by employment in each profession."


Cops don't even crack the top 20

[Ulysses]

OK, so from Billy's link:

"How dangerous is it to be a police officer? Working as a police officer is about 4.1 times as dangerous compared with the average job nationwide, based upon the workplace fatality rate. Police officers have a workplace fatality rate similar to maintenance workers, construction workers, and heavy vehicle mechanics."

4.1 times as dangerous as the average job doesn't sound particularly safe. Plus:

"The most common cause of death for police officers at work is violence by persons."

Doesn't that make everyone here feel all warm and cuddly?

LEO's stand at #22 in the listing. They may not break the top 20, but they do break the top 22.

I've done roofing, when I was much younger and agile. And only on single story structures. Not sure I want to do it now. Plus, I don't need to. I'd rather hire somebody.

[Vrede too]

OK, so from Billy's link:

"How dangerous is it to be a police officer? Working as a police officer is about 4.1 times as dangerous compared with the average job nationwide, based upon the workplace fatality rate. Police officers have a workplace fatality rate similar to maintenance workers, construction workers, and heavy vehicle mechanics."

4.1 times as dangerous as the average job doesn't sound particularly safe.

Pussy straw man. No one said "particularly safe."

Plus:

"The most common cause of death for police officers at work is violence by persons."

Doesn't that make everyone here feel all warm and cuddly?

So what? I sure don't want to be sliced in half by a slipped or snapped choker cable, either. The issue all along has been deaths by any means.

LEO's stand at #22 in the listing. They may not break the top 20, but they do break the top 22....

Oooh, you're so close. Grow a pair and admit that O Really was correct, all of your whining was stupid, and you were too lazy and slow to look it up yourself even when challenged.

[O Really]

Nobody says being a police officer is without some risk. Even being in the top 50 dangerous jobs is significant. My beef is that they make such a big deal of their risk, and get parades for getting killed when many others go to work every day with even greater risks, doing more difficult jobs in many cases and die unrecognized. As I said, there are cop heroes, alive and dead. But not all dead cops are heroes. Some just missed a curve; some refused the vaccine and died from covid; some fell down the steps from the donut shop. [Note to Ulysses - not a literal, evidence-supported event]

[billy.pilgrim]

OK, so from Billy's link:

"How dangerous is it to be a police officer? Working as a police officer is about 4.1 times as dangerous compared with the average job nationwide, based upon the workplace fatality rate. Police officers have a workplace fatality rate similar to maintenance workers, construction workers, and heavy vehicle mechanics."

4.1 times as dangerous as the average job doesn't sound particularly safe.

Pussy straw man. No one said "particularly safe."

Plus:

"The most common cause of death for police officers at work is violence by persons."

Doesn't that make everyone here feel all warm and cuddly?

So what? I sure don't want to be sliced in half by a slipped or snapped choker cable, either. The issue all along has been deaths by any means.

LEO's stand at #22 in the listing. They may not break the top 20, but they do break the top 22....

Oooh, you're so close. Grow a pair and admit that O Really was correct, all of your whining was stupid, and you were too lazy and slow to look it up yourself even when challenged.

4.1 x more dangerous than a secretary, a stock broker ...

Admit it useless, cops do not have a very dangerous job.

[O Really]

According to the FBI, including all law enforcement officers local, county, state, and federal. 94% retire without ever firing a round in the line of duty.

Spoiler:

But among those who have shot at somebody, they have generally done so multiple times

[neoplacebo]

Nobody says being a police officer is without some risk. Even being in the top 50 dangerous jobs is significant. My beef is that they make such a big deal of their risk, and get parades for getting killed when many others go to work every day with even greater risks, doing more difficult jobs in many cases and die unrecognized. As I said, there are cop heroes, alive and dead. But not all dead cops are heroes. Some just missed a curve; some refused the vaccine and died from covid; some fell down the steps from the donut shop. [Note to Ulysses - not a literal, evidence-supported event]

I suspect that more than a few cop deaths are the result of the cop's own actions, like "I'm driving a police car, so I don't have to observe any speed limits." This is what happened when an Asheville city cop went over the high side on the Smoky Park bridge in his cop car about ten years ago. That cop car hit the ground just like a regular car would and the cop died in it. And just recently there was the NC state trooper who caused similar mayhem when responding to a call to assist another officer. I've always done my responsible citizen part when I observe a cop violating speed limits without his lights and siren going; I pull in behind him and keep pace no matter the speed. Sometimes this makes them slow down, move over, and try to get behind me and sometimes they just ignore me. None of them have ever pulled me over for this.

[billy.pilgrim]

Nobody says being a police officer is without some risk. Even being in the top 50 dangerous jobs is significant. My beef is that they make such a big deal of their risk, and get parades for getting killed when many others go to work every day with even greater risks, doing more difficult jobs in many cases and die unrecognized. As I said, there are cop heroes, alive and dead. But not all dead cops are heroes. Some just missed a curve; some refused the vaccine and died from covid; some fell down the steps from the donut shop. [Note to Ulysses - not a literal, evidence-supported event]

I suspect that more than a few cop deaths are the result of the cop's own actions, like "I'm driving a police car, so I don't have to observe any speed limits." This is what happened when an Asheville city cop went over the high side on the Smoky Park bridge in his cop car about ten years ago. That cop car hit the ground just like a regular car would and the cop died in it. And just recently there was the NC state trooper who caused similar mayhem when responding to a call to assist another officer. I've always done my responsible citizen part when I observe a cop violating speed limits without his lights and siren going; I pull in behind him and keep pace no matter the speed. Sometimes this makes them slow down, move over, and try to get behind me and sometimes they just ignore me. None of them have ever pulled me over for this.

I couldn't find the one I was looking for. It was a single car crash by a trooper going over 130 for no reason.

Here's a trooper death that from stupid driving.

https://www.wcvb.com/article/5-investig ... m/39328766


And here's a on duty drunk trooper caused death that he'll get to walk from.

https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/tri ... ZaaGxjXvJ/

"Scott was driving 90 mph in a 55-mph zone"

"Kylie Lindsey, 17, and Isabella Chinchilla, 16, seated in the backseat of the Nissan, died from their injuries. Both were students at South Paulding High School. Two others — Dillon Lewis Wall, then 18, and Benjamin Alan Finken, then 17, both of Douglasville — were injured and taken to Grady Memorial Hospital. Both Wall and Finken survived.

Scott, a former Marine who became a trooper in 2012, did not have emergency lights on at the time of the crash, according to investigators. He was treated and released from Tanner Medical Center in Carrollton.

Two months after the crash, Scott won a seat on the Buchanan City Council in Haralson County. He still holds the position."

And then there are the cop caused crash deaths of bystanders and people being chased. Maybe there should be a category of deaths of others caused by each profession. I bet cops would rate their #1. Yeah cops.

[Vrede too]

... And here's a on duty drunk trooper caused death that he'll get to walk from.

https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/tri ... ZaaGxjXvJ/

"Scott was driving 90 mph in a 55-mph zone"

"Kylie Lindsey, 17, and Isabella Chinchilla, 16, seated in the backseat of the Nissan, died from their injuries. Both were students at South Paulding High School. Two others — Dillon Lewis Wall, then 18, and Benjamin Alan Finken, then 17, both of Douglasville — were injured and taken to Grady Memorial Hospital. Both Wall and Finken survived.

Scott, a former Marine who became a trooper in 2012, did not have emergency lights on at the time of the crash, according to investigators. He was treated and released from Tanner Medical Center in Carrollton.

Two months after the crash, Scott won a seat on the Buchanan City Council in Haralson County. He still holds the position."

And then there are the cop caused crash deaths of bystanders and people being chased. Maybe there should be a category of deaths of others caused by each profession. I bet cops would rate their #1. Yeah cops.

Your article says that there was alcohol in the teen's car, but not that the teen driver nor the cop were drunk.

Mistrial.
https://www.11alive.com/article/news/cr ... 461e0449e4

The cop was fired, but I can't find that he was ever retried.

[O Really]

In 2020, 295 police officers died from causes considered "line of duty." That was substantially up from the previous year, when 139 died. Maybe it's time for more hand-wringing.

Spoiler:

Or not. 182 of those were covid. Deaths by all other causes were 113, lower than any of the previous 10 years. Cops shot were 45, also the lowest of the decade.

[billy.pilgrim]

In 2020, 295 police officers died from causes considered "line of duty." That was substantially up from the previous year, when 139 died. Maybe it's time for more hand-wringing.

Spoiler:

Or not. 182 of those were covid. Deaths by all other causes were 113, lower than any of the previous 10 years. Cops shot were 45, also the lowest of the decade.

But they were exercising their freedums not to wear a mask and that somehow is part of their jobs.

[billy.pilgrim]

... And here's a on duty drunk trooper caused death that he'll get to walk from.

https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/tri ... ZaaGxjXvJ/

"Scott was driving 90 mph in a 55-mph zone"

"Kylie Lindsey, 17, and Isabella Chinchilla, 16, seated in the backseat of the Nissan, died from their injuries. Both were students at South Paulding High School. Two others — Dillon Lewis Wall, then 18, and Benjamin Alan Finken, then 17, both of Douglasville — were injured and taken to Grady Memorial Hospital. Both Wall and Finken survived.

Scott, a former Marine who became a trooper in 2012, did not have emergency lights on at the time of the crash, according to investigators. He was treated and released from Tanner Medical Center in Carrollton.

Two months after the crash, Scott won a seat on the Buchanan City Council in Haralson County. He still holds the position."

And then there are the cop caused crash deaths of bystanders and people being chased. Maybe there should be a category of deaths of others caused by each profession. I bet cops would rate their #1. Yeah cops.

Your article says that there was alcohol in the teen's car, but not that the teen driver nor the cop were drunk.

Mistrial.
https://www.11alive.com/article/news/cr ... 461e0449e4

The cop was fired, but I can't find that he was ever retried.

oops, my mistake, I read several articles and must have confused this one with one of the others.