Immigration

[neoplacebo]

Wouldn't have thought I'd have to explain my little joke.
Lesbos is widely known as the home of the ancient Greek poet Sappho, from whose association with homosexuality the word lesbian derives its modern meaning.

The island of Lesbos is not mentioned in your post or linked article. Just because it's Greece doesn't necessarily mean the island of Lesbos. After all, there are over 220 Greek islands.

I bet they all have different names, too.

[Ulysses]

Wouldn't have thought I'd have to explain my little joke.
Lesbos is widely known as the home of the ancient Greek poet Sappho, from whose association with homosexuality the word lesbian derives its modern meaning.

The island of Lesbos is not mentioned in your post or linked article. Just because it's Greece doesn't necessarily mean the island of Lesbos. After all, there are over 220 Greek islands.

I bet they all have different names, too.

Most likely.

[Vrede too]

... Except that in the US, the court would be more likely referred to as "LGBTQ+"

Why "LGBTQ+" ? What does sexual preference have to do with immigration, other than perhaps resulting in a greater likelihood of being barred from entry? Or is there something in the LGBTQ+ that has relevance to a court?

He Saved 31 People at Sea. Then Got a 142-Year Prison Sentence.

When Hanad Abdi Mohammad grabbed the wheel of a foundering smuggling boat off the Aegean island of Lesbos in December, he said he was scared but determined to save himself and the other 33 people on board.

Six months later, Mohammad, 28, from Somalia, is in a prison on the Greek island of Chios after receiving a 142-year sentence for human smuggling.

“I still have nightmares about that night,” Mohammad said in comments relayed by his lawyers from prison, describing the fateful crossing from Turkey, in which two passengers died. But he said he had no regrets. “If I hadn’t done it, we’d all be dead.”

A copy of the ruling from the Lesbos criminal court, dated May 13 and seen by The New York Times, said Mohammad had been sentenced to a total of 142 years and 10 days in prison for illegally smuggling migrants into Greece. But it added that he would serve a total of 20 years, the maximum allowed under Greece’s criminal code.

Mohammad is one of several asylum-seekers in recent months to have received long prison terms for trafficking or facilitating illegal entry despite arguing that they were just seeking safety, according to human rights groups. The groups have identified dozens of such cases over the past few years, although it is difficult to arrive at an exact number....

Wouldn't have thought I'd have to explain my little joke.
Lesbos is widely known as the home of the ancient Greek poet Sappho, from whose association with homosexuality the word lesbian derives its modern meaning.

The island of Lesbos is not mentioned in your post or linked article. Just because it's Greece doesn't necessarily mean the island of Lesbos. After all, there are over 220 Greek islands.

It's very impressive that you stay up until 4:22 am just to share your stupidity. That's commitment. As I quoted for you above, the article IDs the island of Lesbos twice. I tried making one of them large, now I'll make both huge just to see if it sinks in.

Maybe O Really chose not to quote me just so we can all laugh at you some more.

[Vrede too]

Wouldn't have thought I'd have to explain my little joke.
Lesbos is widely known as the home of the ancient Greek poet Sappho, from whose association with homosexuality the word lesbian derives its modern meaning.

It's like Useless has never been to the Bay Area.

Your timing is impeccable. Last night, just a few hours after you posted:


Sappho - SNL

[Vrede too]

Texas Gov. Abbott's border inspections prompt Mexico to move lucrative trade link to New Mexico

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott's (R) 10-day-long "enhanced" safety inspections of commercial trucks entering the state from Mexico may have cost Texas $4.2 billion in economic damage, as estimated by Waco-based Perryman Group, but it's been great for business in Santa Teresa, New Mexico, a border crossing just across state lines from El Paso.

Trucks were re-routed through Santa Teresa when Abbott's inspections snarled commercial traffic at Texas border crossings, and now Mexico has decided to move a long-planned trade railway connection worth billions of dollars from Texas to the New Mexico crossing, The Dallas Morning News reported Sunday. "We're now not going to use Texas," Mexican Economy Minister Tatiana Clouthier said. "We can't leave all the eggs in one basket and be hostages to someone who wants to use trade as a political tool."

Clouthier made her announcement in Mexico City on Thursday, a day before Abbott said he will be transferring another $500 million from other Texas agencies to finance his broader state border initiative, Operation Lone Star, which is already costing Texans more than $2 billion a year....

Abbott ain't a long thinker.

[Ulysses]

... Except that in the US, the court would be more likely referred to as "LGBTQ+"

Why "LGBTQ+" ? What does sexual preference have to do with immigration, other than perhaps resulting in a greater likelihood of being barred from entry? Or is there something in the LGBTQ+ that has relevance to a court?

He Saved 31 People at Sea. Then Got a 142-Year Prison Sentence.

When Hanad Abdi Mohammad grabbed the wheel of a foundering smuggling boat off the Aegean island of Lesbos in December, he said he was scared but determined to save himself and the other 33 people on board.

Six months later, Mohammad, 28, from Somalia, is in a prison on the Greek island of Chios after receiving a 142-year sentence for human smuggling.

“I still have nightmares about that night,” Mohammad said in comments relayed by his lawyers from prison, describing the fateful crossing from Turkey, in which two passengers died. But he said he had no regrets. “If I hadn’t done it, we’d all be dead.”

A copy of the ruling from the Lesbos criminal court, dated May 13 and seen by The New York Times, said Mohammad had been sentenced to a total of 142 years and 10 days in prison for illegally smuggling migrants into Greece. But it added that he would serve a total of 20 years, the maximum allowed under Greece’s criminal code.

Mohammad is one of several asylum-seekers in recent months to have received long prison terms for trafficking or facilitating illegal entry despite arguing that they were just seeking safety, according to human rights groups. The groups have identified dozens of such cases over the past few years, although it is difficult to arrive at an exact number....

Wouldn't have thought I'd have to explain my little joke.
Lesbos is widely known as the home of the ancient Greek poet Sappho, from whose association with homosexuality the word lesbian derives its modern meaning.

The island of Lesbos is not mentioned in your post or linked article. Just because it's Greece doesn't necessarily mean the island of Lesbos. After all, there are over 220 Greek islands.

It's very impressive that you stay up until 4:22 am just to share your stupidity. That's commitment. As I quoted for you above, the article IDs the island of Lesbos twice. I tried making one of them large, now I'll make both huge just to see if it sinks in.

Maybe O Really chose not to quote me just so we can all laugh at you some more.

V-Bot apparently didn't comprehend that I had him/her/it on full ignore, and thus, as I clearly stated, I didn't see any mention of the island of Lesbos in this thread.

Furthermore, I suspect that equating the Greek Island of Lesbos with LGBTQ is itself homophobic.

What a nasty person V-bot is.

[Vrede too]

I guess Oz won the primary recount 31.1% to 31%. I hadn't heard.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Unit ... ia#Results

Dr. Oz says he'll fight to end illegal immigration. A business owned by his family, in which he is a shareholder, faced the largest fine in ICE history for hiring undocumented workers.

This is why cons never do anything about immigration even when they're in power. They love having the issue to wind up their bigoted followers with AND they love profiting off the backs of oppressed undocumented immigrants.

[neoplacebo]

Yep, they count on the ignorance of their voters to further their greed. And even if manufacturing facilities and jobs come back to the US, which is not going to happen, the ignorant would then bitch about the high price of American made products relative to foreign ones. They love being victims; even of their own stupidity.

[O Really]

Why doesn't somebody in politics or the media ever mention even in passing that it's not "illegal" immigrants that are causing the problematic crowds and that it's not really a "border" issue at all. The big crowds, including those being inhumanely shipped off to places without legal or humanitarian reception facilities, are largely asylum seekers, mostly Venezuelan. These people aren't sneaking in - the come in looking for a cop/border patrol to turn themselves in and start the asylum process. It's a problem caused by and can only be fixed by federal immigration law. When was the last time you heard a Dem, much less a Repug, say "I'm introducing a change to immigration law regarding asylum that will reduce unmanageable influx of potential immigrants"? Nope. It's "Biden has to do something..." WTF do they expect Biden to do that's legal? The law says asylum seekers can come in a plead their case and they'll be heard in a specific court. As much as I hate to say anything good about Trump, his "stay in Mexico" policy had merit, in principle. If I were the one changing the law, I'd say that if a person had escaped from, say, Venezuela, and was no longer in immediate danger, they would have to apply for US asylum in the country where they are, through the US embassy there. If/when they were approved, they'd be allowed into the US to a large processing center where they'd be prepared for their new US life and suitable locations would be found for them. Big operation, lots of money/people required, but a lot less expensive than what we're doing now.

But it's very frustrating that nobody - nobody - even brushes over the real issue and now the concept of "border crisis", "illegal immigrants", "open borders" yada has become so ingrained in the national conversation that tails will just be chased forever.

[Vrede too]

... This is why cons never do anything about immigration even when they're in power. They love having the issue to wind up their bigoted followers with AND they love profiting off the backs of oppressed undocumented immigrants.

Why doesn't somebody in politics or the media ever mention even in passing that it's not "illegal" immigrants that are causing the problematic crowds and that it's not really a "border" issue at all. The big crowds, including those being inhumanely shipped off to places without legal or humanitarian reception facilities, are largely asylum seekers, mostly Venezuelan. These people aren't sneaking in - the come in looking for a cop/border patrol to turn themselves in and start the asylum process. It's a problem caused by and can only be fixed by federal immigration law. When was the last time you heard a Dem, much less a Repug, say "I'm introducing a change to immigration law regarding asylum that will reduce unmanageable influx of potential immigrants"? Nope. It's "Biden has to do something..." WTF do they expect Biden to do that's legal? The law says asylum seekers can come in a plead their case and they'll be heard in a specific court. As much as I hate to say anything good about Trump, his "stay in Mexico" policy had merit, in principle. If I were the one changing the law, I'd say that if a person had escaped from, say, Venezuela, and was no longer in immediate danger, they would have to apply for US asylum in the country where they are, through the US embassy there. If/when they were approved, they'd be allowed into the US to a large processing center where they'd be prepared for their new US life and suitable locations would be found for them. Big operation, lots of money/people required, but a lot less expensive than what we're doing now.

But it's very frustrating that nobody - nobody - even brushes over the real issue and now the concept of "border crisis", "illegal immigrants", "open borders" yada has become so ingrained in the national conversation that tails will just be chased forever.

I am hearing/seeing SOME reports mention asylum seekers and specifically that the recent Venezuelans bused flown thousands of miles are asylum seekers, but the hatred is so great on the right that the distinction doesn't matter to them, even when the immigrants are fleeing a communist country just like the Cubans do.

Newsome is calling the transport under false pretenses "kidnapping" and Ken Burns is making a comparison to the WW2 trains transporting Jews.
https://www.mediaite.com/politics/gavin ... -migrants/
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/ken ... 20073.html

AOC Loses It On Busing Migrants, Calls It ‘Crimes Against Humanity’: ‘Lying & Trafficking People for TV and Clicks’

I THINK that TRE45ON's "stay in Mexico" policy was one he created under emergency pandemic provisions and would not withstand scrutiny under existing asylum law. For the reasons I cite above - absolutist bigotry, business greed and Repug manipulation - I THINK that reform, even of just asylum law, is impossible and I know that the Dems have given up trying.

I won't hold my breath waiting for Abbott and DerSantis to send immigrants to Moscow Mitch's home in KY or to any other obstructionist GQP states.

So, we're stuck with the only changes that can be implemented or passed are increases in LEO presence, activity and harshness.

[Vrede too]

Possible 2024 matchup?

Watch Pete Buttigieg's Devastating Takedown of Fla.'s Ron DeSantis

[Vrede too]

... But it's very frustrating that nobody - nobody - even brushes over the real issue and now the concept of "border crisis", "illegal immigrants", "open borders" yada has become so ingrained in the national conversation that tails will just be chased forever.

Sometimes literally.

'He thought there were migrants on the bus': Guard officer pursues, confronts senior citizens


Lt. Col, Christopher Hoffman of the Massachusetts Army National Guard at Joint Base Cape Cod holds uses his phone to video his exchanges with the driver of a tour bus and passengers on Sept. 19 in the parking lot of the Admiralty Inn & Suites in East Falmouth. He suspected the bus was carrying migrants who crossed the southern border of the U.S.

... At one point, Hoffman boarded the tour bus. "He was walking right up on the bus uninvited," said (bus driver) Vaughn. At that point, the passengers began yelling at Hoffman.

"These older Black women were on his a--," Vaughn said....

Opps. It's no surprise that bigoted semi-military DerSantis fanboys are really really arrogant and stupid.

[Vrede too]

Why doesn't somebody in politics or the media ever mention even in passing that it's not "illegal" immigrants that are causing the problematic crowds and that it's not really a "border" issue at all....

Oh, really?

Immigration officials say Pelosi attacker was in US illegally

I'm sick of these terrorist invaders . . . from Canada. Build a wall! He even registered to vote at one point. Aha, RW voter fraud. Irony.

[O Really]

Funny - but he didn't "enter" illegally. He just outstayed his welcome. Now I suppose there are those who thinks it's a priority use of immigration enforcement to monitor the passport entry logs for Canadians and release the hounds to go chase them down after 6 months, but if they happened to miss a couple of Mexicans sneaking over to pick lettuce in the process those same people would howl again.

[O Really]

Whining about "illegal" immigrants while ignoring the huge number of "legal" asylum seekers reminds me of a guy who finds his basement flooding. He thinks it might be from ground seepage, so he spends a lot of money to regrade the outside of his house. But the flooding continued. So he thought it must be coming down the walls so he spent a lot of money to get his house re-roofed and walls sealed. But the flooding continued. He replaced the water heater, and he replaced the washing machine, all to no avail. Somebody mentioned to him that there was a drain faucet running and spraying water all over everywhere. He looks at it and says "well, I can't do anything about that so maybe I better get the yard re-graded again."

[O Really]

So the US has immigration laws that say a person seeking asylum can come in legally and apply. Title 42 temporarily altered that to require that asylum seekers apply first (e.g. while in Mexico) before being allowed in. What other country in the world allows people to come in and wander around loose for years before some court hearing occurs? It is absolutely clear that the problem here is not in enforcement or lack of walls, but in the law itself. Yet nobody, R or D proposes anything that would actually address the problem. It's too clear and simple that it can't be that the congresscritters don't know this. Nobody is going to get voted out of office for voting for a bill that will have a significant effect on reducing the immigrant inflow. The only remaining reason nobody does anything is that both parties have decided immigration is a good topic to beat each other over the head with, and its easier to just point the fickle finger of blame than to actually do anything.

In the meantime, re-new Title 42, even if it was originally a Trump policy. Blind squirrels.

[Vrede too]

So the US has immigration laws that say a person seeking asylum can come in legally and apply. Title 42 temporarily altered that to require that asylum seekers apply first (e.g. while in Mexico) before being allowed in. What other country in the world allows people to come in and wander around loose for years before some court hearing occurs? It is absolutely clear that the problem here is not in enforcement or lack of walls, but in the law itself. Yet nobody, R or D proposes anything that would actually address the problem. It's too clear and simple that it can't be that the congresscritters don't know this. Nobody is going to get voted out of office for voting for a bill that will have a significant effect on reducing the immigrant inflow. The only remaining reason nobody does anything is that both parties have decided immigration is a good topic to beat each other over the head with, and its easier to just point the fickle finger of blame than to actually do anything.

In the meantime, re-new Title 42, even if it was originally a Trump policy. Blind squirrels.

It's existing policy that Dolt .45 applied. At best, it's a temporary fix.

Title 42 expulsion

Title 42 expulsions are removals by the U.S. government of persons who have recently been in a country where a communicable disease was present. The extent of authority for contagion-related expulsions is set out by law in 42 U.S.C. § 265. During the COVID-19 pandemic, the Trump administration used this provision (section 265) to generally block land entry for many migrants. This practice has been continued by the Biden administration with expansion....

A POTUS has to make the case that there's still a pandemic, which there is, AND that immigrants pose a significant added risk to that pandemic, which I doubt. As you say, immigration laws need major reform, but inappropriate application of Title 42 is not an element of that. In fact, it may delay important change.

[O Really]

Good point, but if Title 42 is all that's available maybe it could be renewed as a stop-gap. If the congresscritters see the Texas parade of horribles and knows that Title 42 will expire in another, say, 9 months, do you think it's possible they'd pass a real law? Ahhhh, nevermind.

[Vrede too]

Good point, but if Title 42 is all that's available maybe it could be renewed as a stop-gap. If the congresscritters see the Texas parade of horribles and knows that Title 42 will expire in another, say, 9 months, do you think it's possible they'd pass a real law? Ahhhh, nevermind.

I'm not sure that Garland can make a case that Title 42 renewal is legally defensible. If not, an honorable and fiscally responsible Admin wouldn't even try.

[O Really]

Good point, but if Title 42 is all that's available maybe it could be renewed as a stop-gap. If the congresscritters see the Texas parade of horribles and knows that Title 42 will expire in another, say, 9 months, do you think it's possible they'd pass a real law? Ahhhh, nevermind.

I'm not sure that Garland can make a case that Title 42 renewal is legally defensible. If not, an honorable and fiscally responsible Admin wouldn't even try.

Maybe not, but I'm not opposed to a little bending of the technicalities in dire straits. If there is still a pandemic (and as you noted, there is), then how could it NOT be an immediate and significant risk to let in thousands of people with no verification of health status? Anyway, they need to do something that slows the tide. Brainstorming...send a few hundred judges to, say, El Paso. Establish that crossing as being the only one available for asylum requests. Anybody tries to cross anywhere else gets denied or ungraciously sent back. Require that they get a decision before leaving El Paso or if they don't, they're considered "illegal" and subject to deportation if identified. Establish large federally funded intake centers in various places for those who are awarded asylum. Follow the current law that allows them in, but limit entry access and put enough resources in place to process them quickly and either take care of them or send them back within a reasonably short time. If you can't/won't change the law, then throw enough money at it to make it manageable.