Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

[Seth Milner]

The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) estimates there are 1.3 million alligators in the state. Yet the agency says that between 1948 and April 2016 there were just 23 unprovoked fatal alligator attacks on people there.

That they know about. Would be interesting to know how many people in that time frame are still on Missing Persons rosters.

To my knowledge, there's no alligators in Russia, but I wonder how many Russians have disappeared as victims of this top predator:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/videos/sleep ... /85072194/

This is some scary crap right here!

[Vrede too]

Army Reserve Officer Who Threatened (NC) Mosque Set for Hearing

[Seth Milner]

Weird shit in the news:

Asheville, NC: the family of the guy killed by police over the weekend is holding a "press conference" ; bringing in a "well-known" civil rights figure as well. (possibly a prelude to bringing charges against the police department) Let me get this straight -- guy pulls out an AR-15 and the cops shoot him. Now, according to his family, his civil rights were violated? Give me an effing break!

Newtown, CT: Parents of children slain in the tragic school shooting have brought a suit against the GUN MANUFACTURER because the weapon they made was the weapon of choice by the madman. Seems that puts a reversal to "guns don't kill people, people kill people". By their thinking, people don't kill people, guns and people who make them kill people. WTF?

Unbelievable that an attorney would take this case all the while knowing that win or lose, his/her sorry ass will get thousands of dollars from the people that initiated the suit; plus getting his/her name plastered in the news. I can't see how the gun manufacturer would be liable!

If a win is declared in this suit, the title of this thread is fitting for the case.

[O Really]

Army Reserve Officer Who Threatened (NC) Mosque Set for Hearing

No mention in the article of the perp's religion, eh? Wonder why.

[O Really]

Weird shit in the news:

Asheville, NC: the family of the guy killed by police over the weekend is holding a "press conference" ; bringing in a "well-known" civil rights figure as well. (possibly a prelude to bringing charges against the police department) Let me get this straight -- guy pulls out an AR-15 and the cops shoot him. Now, according to his family, his civil rights were violated? Give me an effing break!

Newtown, CT: Parents of children slain in the tragic school shooting have brought a suit against the GUN MANUFACTURER because the weapon they made was the weapon of choice by the madman. Seems that puts a reversal to "guns don't kill people, people kill people". By their thinking, people don't kill people, guns and people who make them kill people. WTF?

Unbelievable that an attorney would take this case all the while knowing that win or lose, his/her sorry ass will get thousands of dollars from the people that initiated the suit; plus getting his/her name plastered in the news. I can't see how the gun manufacturer would be liable!

If a win is declared in this suit, the title of this thread is fitting for the case.

1. The part about the rifle wasn't initially known/publicized. Also apparently some around did not see the rifle. May or may not have actually been the dead guy's rifle. Probably a case of poor handling rather poor action, I'd guess.

2. Manufacturers get sued all the time because either their products caused harm. In this case, though, the manufacturer made a product designed to kill, and the user used it in the manner in which it was designed. Likely a losing case, but not an unreasonable attempt, when considering the publicity for the idea.

[Vrede too]

3. As everyone but Seth Milner knows, most such cases are taken on contingency, meaning that the attorney gets a hefty chunk of the award if the plaintiff wins and nothing with a loss.

4. In other cases, the attorneys are hired by or already work for public interest groups hoping to achieve change through the courts. I can't find that this is the case with the Sandy Hook massacre lawsuit, but it still could be.

... The Orlando shooter had nothing on record that prevented his obtaining weapons. The solution is (1) for our lawmakers to pass legislation outlawing weapons of mass destruction (2) Forbidding any Washington pol to have any dealings with the NRA (3) If our lawmakers (local and national) can impose stiff taxes on soft drinks, alcohol, and tobacco and close businesses deemed a nuisance, then they ought to have the power (and balls) to shut down the NRA as a business.

If I understand correctly what Seth Milner means in what you've quoted by, "pass legislation outlawing weapons of mass destruction," we, he and SCOTUS (Scalia) are in agreement on assault-style weapons bans.

For once, you and I have similar opinions.

I have two pistols in my home; I don't need, nor see anyone else's need to own a rapid-fire, high-powered, high-shot capacity weapon in their home or on a hunting trip. Although I'm licensed, or permitted if you will, to carry in a number of states, I've not carried a weapon on my person in public in at least three years; I do carry a pistol in my truck when Spook and I travel for protection for when I stop somewhere late at night or if we're out on a hike somewhere. I don't need an assault weapon to kill a snake; legless or two-legged or any wild animal, two-legged or four-legged, that should attack me. It's beyond me as to why in hell an organization such as NRA should throw the Second Amendment in lawmakers' faces when the subject of assault weapon ban or control is mentioned. I personally feel the NRA itself should be banned. I've have never been, nor never will be a part of that radical bunch of hypocrites.

The NRA has long been shilling for the gun manufacturers. We can't discuss one without discussing the others.

Newtown Families Sue Gun Maker for Sandy Hook Massacre

... A federal law passed in 2005 shields gun makers and dealers from many liability lawsuits, but the families' lawyers say there are exceptions. The suit is using one of them — the theory of negligent entrustment — to argue that the companies are at fault for letting civilians get their hands on weapons meant for the battlefield. Other suits have cited that exception, but only when targeting the retailer — not the manufacturer or the distributor.

Although the suit seeks damages, Soto said money is not the motivation. Instead, she wants gun firms to stop funneling AR-15s to civilians. "No matter what the outcome is, at least we gave it a shot," she said. "If we don't win, we won't regret what we have done in our sister's honor." ...

Sandy Hook families sue gun manufacturer of military-style assault weapon

... In their legal motion, made public on Monday, the families say the rifle shouldn’t have been entrusted to the general public because it is a military-style assault weapon that is unsuited for civilian use, “engineered to deliver maximum carnage with extreme efficiency.” Individuals deemed mentally unfit to operate the weapon can gain access to the firearm, they added. The families ask that the company admits accountability for the consequences of selling the rifle.

Bushmaster’s parent firm, Remington Outdoor Company, did not immediately respond to msnbc’s request for comment. Bushmaster is the largest supplier of combat rifles to civilians, according to the lawsuit.

The families allege that Bushmaster knew, or should have known of the high risks posed by the rifle, including the ability to use it to inflict maximum casualties and to generate multiple deaths and serious injury....

5. Odd, the grieving families are making essentially the same argument about these guns that Seth Milner made just 2 weeks ago, but now Seth Milner claims that it's "Weird shit ... Unbelievable".

[Seth Milner]

Odd, the grieving families are making essentially the same argument about these guns that Seth Milner made just 2 weeks ago, but now Seth Milner claims that it's "Weird shit ... Unbelievable".

"Essentially the same" and "the same" are not the same, if you can grasp that.

As everyone but Vrede comprehended, the weird shit is the idea of the lawsuits in the two cases. Another weird shit is Vrede's inability to grasp that thought; but then, that's Vrede; that explains everything. Strawman much?

[JTA]

GOP's official platform includes opening up public lands (wildlife refuge, national forests, national parks maybe?) To development as they believe private stewardship is the best means of preservation.

Whaaat!?

I feel like the GOP is a good example of what happens when you don't temper ideology with reason and common sense and instead become stuck in a little self referential bubble of dogma, or something. See trickle down economics.

[Seth Milner]

Asheville, NC: the family of the guy killed by police over the weekend is holding a "press conference" ; bringing in a "well-known" civil rights figure as well. (possibly a prelude to bringing charges against the police department) Let me get this straight -- guy pulls out an AR-15 and the cops shoot him. Now, according to his family, his civil rights were violated?

The part about the rifle wasn't initially known/publicized. Also apparently some around did not see the rifle. May or may not have actually been the dead guy's rifle. Probably a case of poor handling rather poor action, I'd guess.

This news item has the smacking of suppression. I've not heard any more of the outcome of this shooting other than the mayor's apology surrounding the events, other than the victim was some sort of civil rights hero now. Did the guy have a gun or not? If so, did he aim it at the officers? Was the gun a plant by the officer(s)?

Has anyone heard any thing more of this?

[Vrede too]

Je suis Baghdad, Nice et Ankara.

Heard on the radio that the long term worldwide trend for violence is decreasing, with some occasional blips. Hard to comprehend with our instance access to the ugliness, but the guy studying it seemed credible. If so, cool, I've long felt that the real rift was between the violent bastards and the rest of us, more so than any other religious or ideological divide.

[rstrong]

If so, cool, I've long felt that the real rift was between the violent bastards and the rest of us, more so than any other religious or ideological divide.

Erdogan’s goal is to turn Syria into a Saudi-style Sunni-ruled Islamic state. With Saudi backing. No democracy. To that end he's taken totalitarian control of the media, the police, and the judiciary. Broadly speaking every time the Islamists try to do this, the military steps in to stop it.

Gwynne Dyer provided a good overview of the situation in Turkey last November: Turkey: Next Stop Civil War?

[Vrede too]

I have mixed feelings, so I'm not gonna debate it.

As you say, Turkey has a history of the military being a moderating force. Otoh, we should give some deference to democratic elections rather than military coups. Then, there's Turkey's mixed aims of being " a Saudi-style Sunni-ruled Islamic state" and part of Europe politically and economically, along with a relatively progressive Muslim populace vs. Erdogan’s mullahs, not to mention the US military presence, the Kurds and neighboring Syria and Iraq. What a mess.

[rstrong]

Gwynne Dyer, from today: Coup attempt a death knell to Turkish democracy

There's also reports that 2,745 judges have been removed from office following the coup attempt. Erdogan is taking advantage of the coup to consolidate power.

[Vrede too]

Sad, I had Turkish friends when I was sailing. Had hoped to visit someday.

[Seth Milner]

Sad, I had Turkish friends when I was sailing. Had hoped to visit someday.

Not to make light of the events there, but you've still got one Turkish friend: That big turkey up in Canada!
Maybe you can go visit someday.
Tweedle Dweeb and Tweedle Dumb together. Yep, that's the ticket.

[rstrong]

Sad, I had Turkish friends when I was sailing. Had hoped to visit someday.

Not to make light of the events there, but you've still got one Turkish friend: That big turkey up in Canada!
Maybe you can go visit someday.

And through Seth you have a friend in the KKK!

[Vrede too]

Not to make light of the events there,

He says right before making light of the events there.

but you've still got one Turkish friend: That big turkey up in Canada!

Pretty lame cut, not even worth the effort.

Maybe you can go visit someday.

Point rstrong for getting to you enough that you're this desperate get back at him.

[Seth Milner]

Point rstrong for getting to you enough that you're this desperate get back at him.

Proofread much? Getting to me? Hardly! I'm enjoying hell out of this.
I'm sure he's happy that you're standing by his side, though. Twins do that you know.

[rstrong]

Aw, Seth Milner still can't comprehend more than one person disagreeing with his bigotry and delusions.

[Vrede too]

Not much to agree or disagree about, it was just a whiny and dumb Seth Milner tangent.