The LEO thread

[O Really]

Probably just machine garble. Here's a clean version.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/man-fatally-sh ... d=43905139

Might have been a better story for "Florida Man" thread.

[Vrede too]

And still, a gun in the home makes it much more likely that the owner or a family member will be injured or killed with it than an intruder.

[Vrede too]

Probably just machine garble. Here's a clean version.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/man-fatally-sh ... d=43905139

Might have been a better story for "Florida Man" thread.

... Darlow later told police he was worried that if the suspects weren't already armed, they would arm themselves with one of Darlow's guns that he keeps in plain view on nightstands, according to the affidavits....

:!:

[Vrede too]

And still, a gun in the home makes it much more likely that the owner or a family member will be injured or killed with it than an intruder.

Boy, 14, Allegedly Shoots His Mom and 8-Year-Old Brother Dead as They Sleep: Cops

The only thing that can stop a bad 14 year old with a gun is a good 8 year old with a gun, right?

[Mr.B]

"And still, a gun in the home makes it much more likely that the owner or a family member will be injured or killed with it than an intruder."

And what "more likely" could have happened had the homeowner not had a gun? 3 of them, one of him?

[Mr.B]

"And still, a gun in the home makes it much more likely that the owner or a family member will be injured or killed with it than an intruder."

Boy, 14, Allegedly Shoots His Mom and 8-Year-Old Brother Dead as They Sleep: Cops

"The only thing that can stop a bad 14 year old with a gun is a good 8 year old with a gun, right?"

What's your point?

[O Really]

Not to speak for Vrede, but if those were my posts, I think my point would be clear:
1. firearms can be used for legitimate self defense; but
2. firearms are inherently dangerous; and
3. there are more instances where somebody gets shot "accidentally" than when used to defend; and
4. many of those "accidents" result from negligence

[Mr.B]

"Probably just machine garble. Here's a clean version."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/man-fatally-sh ... d=43905139

"Might have been a better story for "Florida Man" thread."

I pondered which thread to post in; this one seemed more fitting.

The text that I copied and pasted came up after clicking on the headline on the Yahoo! home page. I was going to post the link, but it reverted to a "cleaner version" with no further text, just video.

My first thought was that it was a re-posting by a foreign news source.

[Mr.B]

"Not to speak for Vrede, but if those were my posts, I think my point would be clear:"
1. firearms can be used for legitimate self defense; but
It's clear that Vrede holds any gun-ownership in disdain.

2. firearms are inherently dangerous;
Can't argue that point.

3. there are more instances where somebody gets shot "accidentally" than when used to defend;
I wouldn't say there are "more" instances, but those are risks one takes in owning a gun.
Even a responsible, licensed, gun owner can hurt himself.

4. many of those "accidents" result from negligence
What I said. I believe that CCP testing should be renewed yearly, rather than every five years to determine mental capacity.

[Vrede too]

Not just "accidents" but also familial homicide like the example I linked and suicide. One can come up with all sorts of reasons for being armed, but statistically self and family protection ain't one of them.

[O Really]

"
It's clear that Vrede holds any gun-ownership in disdain.

I disagree. It is clear that he hold some gun owners in disdain, specifically those who think that any restriction on firearm purchase or use is unreasonable - a disdain that I wholeheartedly share with him despite being a trained and licensed firearm owner myself. (who as far as I can tell Vrede does not hold in disdain.)

[Mr.B]

"I disagree. It is clear that he hold some gun owners in disdain, specifically those who think that any restriction on firearm purchase or use is unreasonable - a disdain that I wholeheartedly share with him despite being a trained and licensed firearm owner myself." (who as far as I can tell Vrede does not hold in disdain.)

".....a disdain that I wholeheartedly share"... As well as I. When I got my CCP, I received a deluge of mailings from NRA, various gun-rights groups, and a few other nutjob factions urging me to join, donate, sign petitions, and whatever the heck else they held as an agenda --- mostly political b.s.

I politely mailed their postage-free envelopes back to them thanking them for feeding my shredder. That ended that.

Drawing from my experience in taking the CCP course, I have to disagree with Vrede's past assessment that anyone can walk in and get a permit.
It couldn't be done with the instructor I had who refused permitting two applicants in our class.

[O Really]

Drawing from my experience in taking the CCP course, I have to disagree with Vrede's past assessment that anyone can walk in and get a permit.
It couldn't be done with the instructor I had who refused permitting two applicants in our class.

Yeah, well probably more than two applicants have flunked the drivers' test too. That says more about the test takers than the difficulty of the test.

[Vrede too]

It's clear that Vrede holds any gun-ownership in disdain.

I disagree. It is clear that he hold some gun owners in disdain, specifically those who think that any restriction on firearm purchase or use is unreasonable - a disdain that I wholeheartedly share with him despite being a trained and licensed firearm owner myself. (who as far as I can tell Vrede does not hold in disdain.)

It's clear that dishonest and whiny Mr.B makes shit up when he doesn't have the balls to face proven facts about gun ownership.

Drawing from my experience in taking the CCP course, I have to disagree with Vrede's past assessment that anyone can walk in and get a permit.
It couldn't be done with the instructor I had who refused permitting two applicants in our class.

Yeah, well probably more than two applicants have flunked the drivers' test too. That says more about the test takers than the difficulty of the test.

Drawing from our experience with Mr.B, he makes shit up about me when he doesn't have the balls to face proven facts about gun ownership. What I have posted and know:
Felons and those with a violent misdemeanor can't get a permit. Only felons are prevented from purchasing and owning a gun, though.
Those that have been committed for mental disease can't get a permit.
Those that have known mental disease but have not been committed may be able to get a permit. Only those that have been committed for mental disease are prevented from purchasing and owning a gun, though.
Drunks and druggies can get a permit as long as their last impaired driving conviction was more than 3 years ago.
The CCP course is so easy that even a Mr.B can pass it.
There is no ongoing training requirements or assessment other than paying a fee every 5 years, nor is there any assessment of mental health changes barring felonies and violent misdemeanor convictions.

http://www.usacarry.com/north_carolina_ ... ation.html

One other thing I know - Mr.B will be too cowardly to be accountable for his Commandment-level sinful lies.

[O Really]

For example... http://www.gunthorp.com/classes_permit_written_test.htm

But hey, you have to shoot 50 rounds at a target 5 yards, too.

[Mr.B]

For example... http://www.gunthorp.com/classes_permit_written_test.htm

"But hey, you have to shoot 50 rounds at a target 5 yards, too."

How many of those questions did you answer incorrectly?

[Mr.B]

"It's clear that dishonest and whiny Mr.B makes shit up when he doesn't have the balls to face proven facts about gun ownership."

"Drawing from our experience with Mr.B, he makes shit up about me when he doesn't have the balls to face proven facts about gun ownership."

"The CCP course is so easy that even a Mr.B can pass it."

"One other thing I know - Mr.B will be too cowardly to be accountable for his Commandment-level sinful lies."

Since you NEVER "make up shit" about anyone, perhaps you really ought to try your own medicine, Dr. V ----

"There is no ongoing training requirements or assessment other than paying a fee every 5 years, nor is there any assessment of mental health changes barring felonies and violent misdemeanor convictions."
Did you even read what I said before your ran screeching away about me "making shit up" about you?
"I believe that CCP testing should be renewed yearly, rather than every five years to determine mental capacity."

[Vrede too]

For example... http://www.gunthorp.com/classes_permit_written_test.htm

But hey, you have to shoot 50 rounds at a target 5 yards, too.

Bet I would ace it without ever having studied. Of course, I would have to pretend I'm a dishonest moron like Mr.B on a couple in order to do so.

10. If you shoot someone, which of the following might you expect?

a. To withhold any statements without your attorney present.
Ummm, that's a usually wise choice, not an expectation.

b. To undergo a criminal investigation and/or costly trial.
Not necessarily.

c. To be the defendant in a ruinous civil suit.
Not necessarily.

d. All of the above, but you will be alive.
The whiny and inaccurate "correct" answer, and you won't necessarily be alive.

12. Which statement best describes criminal and predator behavior?

a. They won't hurt you if you don't give them a reason to.
Depends on the criminal and crime, duh.

b. When guns are banned for the law abiding,
Never going to happen, crybabies.
they will turn theirs in.
Fewer guns and/or stricter regulation consistently leads to less violence in homes, states and comparable nations.

c. They come to this class to get their permits, just like you do.
True, except for those already convicted of felonies and violent misdemeanors. Why carry concealed illegally when it's so freaking easy to carry concealed legally?

d. None of the above.
The whiny and inaccurate "correct" answer.

[O Really]

To be fair, not all the tests are exactly like that one, but all I've ever seen are equally lame. But from a training standpoint, it's not even that the written test is bad it's that the instructors are so ummmm, "helpful" in assuring their students, ummmm, "learn" what they need to know. I don't know how one could go to a class in good faith and not pass. Mr.B's idea of annual certification is OK, except that if the only thing you had to do was what you did the first time, it really wouldn't matter. Maybe each year gets more difficult. Give everybody a fairly free first year, but for the second they have to show up with real knowledge, demonstrate having received training and practical experience.

[Vrede too]

What's to debate if we all agree on heavier regulation? One thing might be that I would support mandates for ongoing competence and training for all owners, not just CCP holders.

... I don't know how one could go to a class in good faith and not pass....

Review the Gun thread or google "gun + Darwin".