Gun Legislation

[Roland Deschain]

Shooters kill two in pizzaria, then shoot up Wal-Mart, then shoot each other. Damn, if only those having pizza had been armed.... oh wait.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/two ... ee-n125766

Some of the reports I'm hearing are stating this was an"ambush" style attack on the cops. There are also yet UNCONFIRMED reports that a concealed carrier may have engaged the couple at the Wal-mat and thus ended the spree....why don't you mention that????

Ok, I'll mention it.....ABC news reported last night that an armed citizen (with a gun) confronted the pair inside Wal-Mart "....and he was shot dead" per the story. Opps.

Opps???? That is all you numbnuts have to say about a man that died a hero's death at least ATTEMPTING to, and possibly stopping, what could have been another 20 person mass shooting. Opps? Funny thing that the main stream media keeps NOT saying is that there are again UNCONFIRMED reports that Wilcox got at least one round into Jared Miller before he was shot from behind by the wife and possibly also wounded her before expiring.

[Boatrocker]

. . . there are again UNCONFIRMED reports that Wilcox got at least one round into Jared Miller before he was shot from behind by the wife and possibly also wounded her before expiring.

"Unconfirmed" because wingnut fantasy blogs are not in the same solar system as actual facts.

[neoplacebo]

Shooters kill two in pizzaria, then shoot up Wal-Mart, then shoot each other. Damn, if only those having pizza had been armed.... oh wait.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/two ... ee-n125766

Some of the reports I'm hearing are stating this was an"ambush" style attack on the cops. There are also yet UNCONFIRMED reports that a concealed carrier may have engaged the couple at the Wal-mat and thus ended the spree....why don't you mention that????

Ok, I'll mention it.....ABC news reported last night that an armed citizen (with a gun) confronted the pair inside Wal-Mart "....and he was shot dead" per the story. Opps.

Opps???? That is all you numbnuts have to say about a man that died a hero's death at least ATTEMPTING to, and possibly stopping, what could have been another 20 person mass shooting. Opps? Funny thing that the main stream media keeps NOT saying is that there are again UNCONFIRMED reports that Wilcox got at least one round into Jared Miller before he was shot from behind by the wife and possibly also wounded her before expiring.

Nah, just that "opps" was the first thing to come to mind.......perhaps the concealed carry guy could have had his gun taken away from him and the woman beat the shit out of him with it, or the concealed carry guy could have been a Barney Fife type with trembling hand and sketchy trigger finger who just wasn't who he imagined himself to be....hard to say. Or he could possibly been aiming to rob Wal Mart but instead was presented with the scenario that transpired. And I always thought these public shooters tote a lot of ammo in case they aren't able to kill themselves with the first shot.

[Roland Deschain]

...There are also yet UNCONFIRMED reports that a concealed carrier may have engaged the couple at the Wal-mat and thus ended the spree....why don't you mention that????...However, why do you people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun...

...Wilcox went from the checkout area to Miller and pulled his concealed firearm. But before he could fire, Amanda Miller shot him in the ribs and Wilcox collapsed...

Opps. There's nothing to suggest he "ended the spree" or that he would have been any less effective if he'd gone after them with Silly String. He is just a wannabe hero with a gun like Roland Deschain that wrecked his own family.

There is also nothing to suggest that he did NOT end the spree....

Ummm, everything we know about the events.

Ummm, everything we KNOW about the events points to the Millers be prepared for a lengthy shooting spree or stand off. NEITHER HAPPENED. Why?

well, other than the history of other mass shooting/suicides that show once the perpetrator/s are engaged by any form of a preventative force a vast majority have taken their own life quickly.

By police, rarely by civilian wannabe heroes with a gun.

Facts are facts. Once engaged the perps rarely continue. Makes no difference who engages them.

They were found with "hundreds of rounds of ammunition" and were prepared for what appeared to be a "lengthy gun battle". So what did stop them????

...By now, police had arrived, and two five-officer teams entered the massive store. Near the back, one team confronted the Millers, and exchanged fire. At one point, Jerad Miller tried to blast a rear emergency exit door open with a shotgun, but police had blocked it with a car and he could not escape.

One officer went with store security to screens showing feeds from surveillance cameras and saw that Jerad Miller had built a makeshift barricade around his wife.

As police closed in, Amanda Miller shot her husband several times with a handgun, killing him. She then shot herself in the head...

Thank you for again proving that you're too lazy to learn about the events you're pontificating on, just like Isla Vista and Seattle, and/or are too dumb to understand what you've read.

Nothing in your bloviating confirms nor refutes my statements.

Opps???? That is all you numbnuts have to say about a man that died a hero's death at least ATTEMPTING to, and possibly stopping, what could have been another 20 person mass shooting.

Huh? The Millers could have shot many in the diner or in Walmart before Wilcox acted but instead Jerad Miller fired into the air in Walmart and their apparent target was exclusively cops. This was a misguided revolutionary attack by pathetic rightwing gunhuggers, not a "spree" like so many of our other tragedies. Dang, can't you get anything right, Roland Deschain? Wilcox merely added one body to "the spree" by his actions, numbnuts.

Not being a gunhugging fanatic with tunnel vision I am able to both admire courage and pan foolishness. Turns out that Wilcox was a long term unemployed wannabe cop. Where have we heard that before?

Again, all we have is past history and case study to look at. Unfortunately, for you, those facts support my contention more than yours. It is all really a mater of opinion now.

Opps?

neoplacebo can speak for himself but my "Opps" was mostly about what you posted, Roland Deschain. I'm not surprised that it either went sailing over your head or that you are too wussy to admit it.

Funny thing that the main stream media keeps NOT saying is that there are again UNCONFIRMED reports that Wilcox got at least one round into Jared Miller before he was shot from behind by the wife and possibly also wounded her before expiring.

The "main stream (sic)" media got its info. from the cops who no doubt knew immediately whether Wilcox ever fired his gun or not. Meanwhile, your "UNCONFIRMED reports" are from some gunhugging website that knows how gullible its readers are, as Boatrocker says.

...Wilcox's sister, CJ Foster, said her brother was pro-gun and believed guns don't kill people -- people kill people...

His gun got himself killed by another person with a gun.

True, but his actions MAY have saved many others. We will never know for sure but again, history seems to indicate that as accurate.

[Boatrocker]

Police Fatally Shot Las Vegas Gunman Jerad Miller During Gunfight

Good guy (?) with a gun got himself killed. All those people smart enough not to carry a fucking gun in fucking Walmart are still alive.

[Roland Deschain]

...Lets say Chicago...isn't it called the murder capitol?? What about California....you know, where vrede's mass "shooting" occurred...

LOL, You're still too stupid and cowardly to admit that it was a mass shooting and that the article and my post about an idiot GOP candidate doing a gunhugging robocall the very next day was appropriate all along.

Whether nations, states or homes, the ones with fewer guns consistently have less violence. Yet another fact you'll never have the stones to admit.

...I haven't followed the shotgunner who was pepper sprayed but wasn't he eventually shot too (self inflicted or not)?...

No, he was not shot. Your whole whiny reason for returning was to "fix" a headline about the Isla Vista tragedy and you instead managed to get every single "fact" about it wrong. If there was an intelligence and honesty test for gun ownership you would not be allowed to possess a squirt gun.

You even triple down by screwing up the Seattle and Las Vegas facts.

Run away, Roland Deschain, run away.

Typical vrede tactic, translation of the above:

I'm getting my ass whipped in the actual events and facts surrounding the situations. Let me attempt to discredit my opponent by denigrating them a bit.

Actually, Vrede did not write anything like that. I'm getting my ass whipped in the actual events and facts surrounding the situations but I'm such a pathetic loser denigrating myself and compensating for my huge inadequacies with guns that I become a whiny child. I'm just like Wilcox in only hurting myself.

[Roland Deschain]

Police Fatally Shot Las Vegas Gunman Jerad Miller During Gunfight

Good guy (?) with a gun got himself killed. All those people smart enough not to carry a fucking gun in fucking Walmart are still alive.

Nice language. You know your statements carry a little more credibility when they don't sound like they came out of a middle school boys locker room. Anyway, according to your own headline it was just a different good guy with a gun, that killed the bad guy with a gun. Same result different trigger man.

[Boatrocker]

Fuck you and your language commentary. And the police are the folks paid, authorized and TRAINED to carry weapons and use deadly force. They did the job, and the poor schmuck who carried his artificial penis gun to Walmart is dead.

[O Really]

OK, Roland, I'll make it even simpler. Stand Your Ground laws lower the standard for a claim of self-defense. That is undisputable. But that means that it is easier than it used to be to shoot somebody and avoid legal liability. You may (probably) think that's a good thing. Polls show a majority of voting citizens don't. But nobody gets to vote on those laws, do they?

And yes, people do do things with a SYG law that they probably or possibly would't do otherwise - just because the law is there. For example, the guy in Florida who shot the kids in the car next to him over their loud music probably wouldn't have done that had he not thought there was a reasonable chance he could SYG out of it. And he may have gotten by with it if he hadn't shot so many of them. What was the first thing out of his mouth? "I was afraid for my life" or some version of that.

Remember the guy who called 911 during an argument where he was complaining about a loud party and did he say "come help me they gonna kill me?" Nope. He said "I'm standing my ground. I'm afraid they're going to do me harm. I'm standing my ground." This from the guy who left his house to go to the neighbors. Think he would have done that without SYG in mind as a defense?

[Roland Deschain]

Fuck you and your language commentary. And the police are the folks paid, authorized and TRAINED to carry weapons and use deadly force. They did the job, and the poor schmuck who carried his artificial penis gun to Walmart is dead.

Yep...you're a classy one. Why is it that libtards like yourself always use potty mouth in an effort to get your points across. I'm starting to think that it is because you lack the common sense to explain it otherwise.

[Roland Deschain]

OK, Roland, I'll make it even simpler. Stand Your Ground laws lower the standard for a claim of self-defense. That is undisputable. But that means that it is easier than it used to be to shoot somebody and avoid legal liability. You may (probably) think that's a good thing. Polls show a majority of voting citizens don't. But nobody gets to vote on those laws, do they?

And yes, people do do things with a SYG law that they probably or possibly would't do otherwise - just because the law is there. For example, the guy in Florida who shot the kids in the car next to him over their loud music probably wouldn't have done that had he not thought there was a reasonable chance he could SYG out of it. And he may have gotten by with it if he hadn't shot so many of them. What was the first thing out of his mouth? "I was afraid for my life" or some version of that.

Remember the guy who called 911 during an argument where he was complaining about a loud party and did he say "come help me they gonna kill me?" Nope. He said "I'm standing my ground. I'm afraid they're going to do me harm. I'm standing my ground." This from the guy who left his house to go to the neighbors. Think he would have done that without SYG in mind as a defense?

Granted it may "lower the standards". However, when I tasked you with showing how it has been used effectively as a legal defense in what should have been murder or man slaughter cases, you failed miserably and can only present cases where a "normal" self defense claim would have worked equally as well.

[Roland Deschain]

Update:

Las Vegas gunman killed by police, not wife, authorities say

Still no mention of Wilcox contributing a thing or even firing his gun.

Yes, I've noticed that. Wilcox and his actions are slowly being written out of the story. I heard a radio report this afternoon where he was called a "bystander". I wonder why that is????

[Roland Deschain]

Ummm, you're the one making the claim that Wilcox had an impact other than his own death with zero evidence to support it. Try to keep up.

Yes, vrede that "claim" is my OPINION and that opinion is based in case studies and past events regarding other mass shooters. I am entitled to that opinion, just as much as you are entitled to yours with just as little evidence to support it. Unless you are clairvoyant or have spoken to the Millers since their deaths you have ZERO knowledge of their intent or what their thought processes were.

[Roland Deschain]

Update:

Las Vegas gunman killed by police, not wife, authorities say

Still no mention of Wilcox contributing a thing or even firing his gun.

Yes, I've noticed that. Wilcox and his actions are slowly being written out of the story. I heard a radio report this afternoon where he was called a "bystander". I wonder why that is????

Maybe because he was a bystander that didn't contribute a thing or even fire his gun????

Or maybe it's because giving him any mention doesn't fit the narrative that the media wants the blindly following sheeple like you to hear. Who knows why, but the story is changing more everyday from the original reports given by the police. Believe what you want, as will I and we can agree to disagree. However, I know that you will never even agree to that. So bloviate on, and I will attempt to at least have a discussion with o'really while you waste bandwidth trying to impress everyone with your endless posting.

[O Really]

Granted it may "lower the standards". However, when I tasked you with showing how it has been used effectively as a legal defense in what should have been murder or man slaughter cases, you failed miserably and can only present cases where a "normal" self defense claim would have worked equally as well.

I'm not playing that game. If I find you one case as an example, you'll just claim it was a fluke. If I find you 50 cases, you'd just nitpick over the meaning of "is." Each case always has its own specific facts and circumstances. In those 147 Florida fatal cases where SYG was claimed, that law was an integral part of the defense - some worked; some did not. But I think making it easier to avoid legal liability after shooting somebody is not a good thing. You disagree, and apparently do think making it easier to avoid legal liability after shooting somebody is a good thing. Okfine.

[O Really]

If Wilcox had actually shot one of the evil-doers, he would be lauded as a hero - like the kid with the pepper spray - and would surely have been the darling of the NRA for years to come. Unfortunately, his bravado overcame his wisdom in that he jumped in without getting a complete understanding of the situation and was killed. This is one example of what people (cops, security experts, people way more knowledgeable than I) fear from people such as Wilcox. If somebody is waving a gun, they don't know if he's good guy or bad guy; innocent people shot - either by mis-identification or by accident; etc.

[GoCubsGo]

Wait, what another one? Did I miss something?

Code: Select all

[quote]Oregon shooting: 'This is becoming the norm' -- but will anything change?[/quote]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/11/justice/o ... ?hpt=hp_t1

74 school shootings since Newton, when does this country wake up to the fact that the second amendment is an antiquated piece of shit that was not designed for modern society and weaponry and needs to be changed.......sadly not in my lifetime, let the senseless gun deaths continue.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/11/us/school ... index.html

[Boatrocker]

Fuck you and your language commentary. And the police are the folks paid, authorized and TRAINED to carry weapons and use deadly force. They did the job, and the poor schmuck who carried his artificial penis gun to Walmart is dead.

Yep...you're a classy one. Why is it that libtards like yourself always use potty mouth in an effort to get your points across. I'm starting to think that it is because you lack the common sense to explain it otherwise.

I give up- why? And why do you subsentient trailer trash attach so much frustrated sexual significance to firearms? I bet you actually give your guns blowjobs.
Meanwhile, back to the topic . . . .

[O Really]

Yeah, "The shooter obtained the weapons from his family home," the chief said. "The weapons had been secured, but he defeated the security measures."

Some "security."
I wonder if Jared's parents now agree with "Joe the Plumber" when he said "your dead kids don't trump my Constitutional rights."

Oh sure, if the parents hadn't provided the arsenal, an innovative 15 year old could get an AR-15 and a semi-auto on most any street corner, right? But he didn't - he brought it from home.

[Mr.B]

Comments from a Yahoo! poster:

You may have heard on the news about a Southern California man who was put under 72-hour
psychiatric observation when it was found he owned 100 guns and allegedly had 100,000 rounds
of ammunition stored in his home. The house also featured a secret escape tunnel.

By Southern California standards, someone owning 100,000 rounds is considered "mentally unstable."

In Michigan, he'd be called "The last white guy still living in Detroit."

In Arizona, he'd be called "an avid gun collector."

In Arkansas, he'd be called "a novice gun collector."

In Wyoming he’d be called “an average guy.”

In Utah, he'd be called "moderately well prepared," but they'd probably reserve judgment until they made sure that he had a corresponding quantity of stored food."

In Kansas, he'd be "A guy down the road you would want to have for a friend."

In Wisconsin, he'd be called "The neighborhood 'Go-To' guy."

In Alabama, he'd be called "a likely gubernatorial candidate."

In Georgia, he'd be called "an eligible bachelor."

In North Carolina, Virginia, Mississippi, Tennessee, Kentucky and South Carolina he would
be called "a deer hunting buddy."

And in Texas he'd just be "Bubba, who's a little short on ammo."