I don't personally consider suicides a gun issue. Seems a pretty appropriate use to me.
(Yes, I know. If the gun wasn't lying around a potentially suicidal person might not actually do it, and the gun makes it easier. But still... )
I don't personally consider suicides a gun issue. Seems a pretty appropriate use to me.
(Yes, I know. If the gun wasn't lying around a potentially suicidal person might not actually do it, and the gun makes it easier. But still... )
Speaking of suicides. . .strange thing here: A guy is threatening to kill himself with a gun. . .he's surrounded by police with their guns drawn. . .he raises the gun to his head. . .cops fire and kill him to keep him from shooting himself. . . duhhh!
If someone is going to commit suicide, they don't need a gun; guns just happen to be the quickest. . maybe. (Surviving a serious gsw is a sentence worth than death) Anyway, there's pills, carbon monoxide, cars, knives, razor blades, the neighbor's dog, and so on. I guess it's high time the gummit commences to place restrictions on those....wait a minute. . .there's that Constitution thingy rearing it's ugly head again.
Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive
It's not a matter of "might". Suicide is mostly a spontaneous act, not an inevitable one. Other forms of successful suicide require significantly more effort than reaching for a gun and pulling the trigger. Access to firearms is one of the first questions asked of depressed/suicidal patients and the risk of suicide is the reason that Israel stopped letting most soldiers take their guns home with them on weekends. Anyone with a gun in their home is accepting the greatly increased risk that they or a family member will intentionally kill themselves.
Vrede too wrote:It's not a matter of "might". Suicide is mostly a spontaneous act, not an inevitable one. Other forms of successful suicide require significantly more effort than reaching for a gun and pulling the trigger. Access to firearms is one of the first questions asked of depressed/suicidal patients and the risk of suicide is the reason that Israel stopped letting most soldiers take their guns home with them on weekends. Anyone with a gun in their home is accepting the greatly increased risk that they or a family member will intentionally kill themselves.
Wouldn't be that much of a problem if assisted suicide were legal.
Assisted suicide is (in some states) and likely will ever be legal here for the terminally ill only. These are not the people that make up the vast majority of suicides.
Last edited by Vrede too on Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Vrede too wrote:It's not a matter of "might". Suicide is mostly a spontaneous act, not an inevitable one. Other forms of successful suicide require significantly more effort than reaching for a gun and pulling the trigger. Access to firearms is one of the first questions asked of depressed/suicidal patients and the risk of suicide is the reason that Israel stopped letting most soldiers take their guns home with them on weekends. Anyone with a gun in their home is accepting the greatly increased risk that they or a family member will intentionally kill themselves.
That doesn't address this though: If someone is going to commit suicide, they don't need a gun; guns just happen to be the quickest. . . maybe. . . there's pills, carbon monoxide, cars, knives, razor blades, the neighbor's dog, and so on.
Gotta go, the boat's ready.
Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive
OK, so here's an example offered as part of objecting to making it illegal to sell guns to people on no-fly or watch lists. It's not my example, it's what the author thought was a good example of injustice. And that it is. But even with this example, would it have been so awful to keep this lady from legally buying a gun? Probably she didn't buy one anyway.
Vrede too wrote:Assisted suicide is (in some states) and likely will ever be legal here for the terminally ill only. These are not the people that make up the vast majority of suicides.
I know, and have personal (second hand) experience in how it works in Washington. I'm not addressing only the (physically) terminally ill.
Even if the justifications are expanded beyond the terminally ill - which is unlikely anytime soon, only a very few states allow it for the terminally ill - doctors just aren't going to be assisting many who go on to attempt suicide on their own. As I said, it's mostly a spontaneous act, often fueled by booze, drugs or short term emotional crises. "Wouldn't be that much of a problem if assisted suicide were legal," just ain't accurate.
O Really wrote:OK, so here's an example offered as part of objecting to making it illegal to sell guns to people on no-fly or watch lists. It's not my example, it's what the author thought was a good example of injustice. And that it is. But even with this example, would it have been so awful to keep this lady from legally buying a gun? Probably she didn't buy one anyway.
It's a pain in the butt that you can't copy MSN text. Anyhow, the first paragraph is a hoot with Republicans suddenly decrying national security state abuses when they're really just being sock puppets for the NRA.
Vrede too wrote:... Side note: Lots of focus lately on "terror watch list" members being still able to buy and I think that the NRA (opps, Congress) just shot down a proposal to change that. I have mixed feelings. First, new hurdles for those thousands of "suspects" won't alter our flood of guns very much. Then, there's the fact that the "terror watch list" is notoriously bigoted and inaccurate. So, I don't really care one way or the other about this baby step.
Ironically, hijab-wearing Rahinah Ibrahim probably has a more reasonable need for a gun in today's America than anyone in this forum.
Vrede too wrote:It's a pain in the butt that you can't copy MSN text. Anyhow, the first paragraph is a hoot with Republicans suddenly decrying national security state abuses when they're really just being sock puppets for the NRA.
This: ? "As the Senate debated a proposal earlier this month that would have barred gun sales to people on the government’s terrorism watch lists, Republicans decried the lists as unfair, unreliable and un-American. “There’s no due process or any way to get your name removed from it in a timely fashion,” Sen. Marco Rubio told CNN. “This is not a list you can be certain of,” Jeb Bush said. Mike Huckabee asserted that some people end up on the no-fly list due to “suspicion, not necessarily even so much as probable cause.”
Me and MSN; we got this thing.
Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive
What's also funny (not haha) is that their action on the various watch lists is to let those on it continue to buy guns because there may be some on the list that don't deserve to be there. Wouldn't it be better to keep anyone on the list further away from guns and fix the "nomination" process for the lists so that they would be more reliable as a measure for who shouldn't be able to legally buy a gun?
I'm not sure how you mean "reasonable". They are effective.
O Really wrote:What's also funny (not haha) is that their action on the various watch lists is to let those on it continue to buy guns because there may be some on the list that don't deserve to be there. Wouldn't it be better to keep anyone on the list further away from guns and fix the "nomination" process for the lists so that they would be more reliable as a measure for who shouldn't be able to legally buy a gun?
Only if the goal is to rectify injustice and protect Americans rather than to suck up to the gun industry no matter what.
As I said, I don't really care one way or the other about this baby step. Hardcore terrorists will find a way. It's an insignificant diversion from what we really need to do.
I don't disagree. But it just galls my ass to see over and over again in the reporting of criminal/terrorist shootings that the "guns were legally purchased."
They ought to at least have to work a little bit to steal them or risk getting caught buying them from a street vendor.
Plus, legal private sales don't require consulting any list.
Anyhow, the shooters weren't on the watch list and Syed Rizwan Farook did buy 2 pistols legally. Have there been any attacks where people on the watch list bought legal guns, or is this about not preventing, thanks to Congress, the theoretical while doing nothing about the actual?
I don't know if anybody on a watch list has ever done an attack, maybe not. But a lot of them have bought guns over the past 10 years or so. Maybe the watch lists are worthless. But it seems such a reasonable thing that if you have a terrorist or criminal watch list of any sort that has any meaning whatsoever, that not being able to legally buy a gun ought to be part of that membership. Whether it actually makes any difference is somewhat immaterial. Being unwilling to pass even a symbolic effort at reducing access to evil-doers is outrageous. I'm really surprised the laws prohibiting convicted felons from gun ownership are still on the books. After all, felons still get guns, don't they? So why have the law? Just because a guy's a felon doesn't mean he's exempt from the good ol' Second, does it?
Seth Milner wrote:
That doesn't address this though: If someone is going to commit suicide, they don't need a gun; guns just happen to be the quickest. . . maybe. . . there's pills, carbon monoxide, cars, knives, razor blades, the neighbor's dog, and so on.
Gotta go, the boat's ready.
The neighbor's dog? Do tell.
My guy is keyed to protect me, but he'll simply take you down, maybe draw a bit of blood, and give me the opportunity to dial 911.
Seth Milner wrote:That doesn't address this though: If someone is going to commit suicide, they don't need a gun; guns just happen to be the quickest. . . maybe. . . there's pills, carbon monoxide, cars, knives, razor blades, the neighbor's dog, and so on.
Gotta go, the boat's ready.
The neighbor's dog? Do tell.
My guy is keyed to protect me, but he'll simply take you down, maybe draw a bit of blood, and give me the opportunity to dial 911.
He's probably referring to this, extraordinary enough that it made national news:
Otherwise, Seth Milner doesn't have a clue what he's talking about when it comes to suicide and did not take the time to educate himself before posting.
Vrede too wrote:It's not a matter of "might". Suicide is mostly a spontaneous act, not an inevitable one. Other forms of successful suicide require significantly more effort than reaching for a gun and pulling the trigger. Access to firearms is one of the first questions asked of depressed/suicidal patients and the risk of suicide is the reason that Israel stopped letting most soldiers take their guns home with them on weekends. Anyone with a gun in their home is accepting the greatly increased risk that they or a family member will intentionally kill themselves.
