The Religion Thread

[bannination]

What's nonsensical about the question?

2 Timothy 2:23---- "But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes."

What's "foolish and unlearned" about bannination's question?

Firstly, it's a foolish question, secondly, I am not "learned" enough to attempt to answer it. I am "learned" enough to know the difference between God and Satan.....I think.

How can it be an "unlearned question" and simultaneously be that you aren't learned enough to answer it? Contradict much?

Granted it is a hard question considering that god was much more evil in the book than the very few mentions of satan doing anything. At least it's giving you something to think about. When a seemingly easy question isn't, maybe it's time to reevaluate.

[Mr.B]

Why not? It is clearly the document by which you live your life - and which you believe will affect your afterlife into infinity. Seems to me being a Biblical scholar would be at the top of the physical life's bucket list. Putting into lowly Earthly terms, if I'm negotiating a new contract or handling grievances or challenges to an existing contract, I'm going to know that document like it was my wife's ass (from another thread). You believe that the Bible is inerrant, and that following it will determine whether you spend life after death lolling around with angels or frying on the brimstone. And you're not a scholar of that document? Seriously?

So why aren't you a scholar when it comes to "negotiating a new contract or handling grievances or challenges"...why do you have to look up anything...you don't have everything memorized? Do you just have one book that covers every scenario you encounter?

I make no excuses....I have never pretended to be all-knowing about the Bible; there's many men of God who can quote you verse by verse, possibly meaning by meaning, and many who have preached for years but can't explain something until they've studied up on it....that doesn't mean that I or anyone else, as a Christian, has to stand ready at every question posed to him or her.
I'm happy with what I know, I'm happy in realizing that there's always much more to learn.

"It's not a foolish question in context. You have said several times that Satan tries to get humans to do things; and that Satan takes various forms. So if Satan is pretending to be God, or God is asking for something Satanic, how does a mere mortal tell the difference. Might be metaphysical, but not foolish."

Satan doesn't "try to get people to do things" ; he's very adept at what he does; however my belief is that God would not allow Satan to impersonate Him. As I said, I am not in a position to give an accurate reply to Banni's (or your) question.

"How can it be an "unlearned question" and simultaneously be that you aren't learned enough to answer it? Contradict much?"

Comprehend much...? It's a foolish question from you, it's an unlearned question that I am unqualified to give an accurate reply.

[bannination]

In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values.

Leon Festinger's theory of cognitive dissonance focuses on how humans strive for internal consistency. When inconsistency (dissonance) is experienced, individuals tend to become psychologically uncomfortable and they are motivated to attempt to reduce this dissonance, as well as actively avoiding situations and information which are likely to increase it.

Classic case if I've ever seen one. I suppose I'm unlearned though.

EDIT: Mr. B's original post reply had "I'm done with this" at the bottom.

[O Really]

So why aren't you a scholar when it comes to "negotiating a new contract or handling grievances or challenges"...why do you have to look up anything...you don't have everything memorized? Do you just have one book that covers every scenario you encounter?

I make no excuses....I have never pretended to be all-knowing about the Bible; there's many men of God who can quote you verse by verse, possibly meaning by meaning, and many who have preached for years but can't explain something until they've studied up on it....that doesn't mean that I or anyone else, as a Christian, has to stand ready at every question posed to him or her.
I'm happy with what I know, I'm happy in realizing that there's always much more to learn.
...]

Oh, I am a scholar in such things. It's not a matter of memory, it's a matter of understanding. And it's the mind, not "one book" that covers every scenario. My question for you isn't why you don't know everything, but why you're not trying to.

[Mr.B]

"Granted it is a hard question considering that god was much more evil in the book than the very few mentions of satan doing anything. At least it's giving you something to think about. When a seemingly easy question isn't, maybe it's time to reevaluate."

You know...you're absolutely correct! I'm gonna run right out right now...no, wait, it's dark already...I'll run right out tomorrow and renounce every thing and anything in my life about God, the Bible, etc, tell everyone in my church where they can get off, come back here to this forum and give y'all and 'ol homerfobe a run for your money! You think homey's one bad egg, wait'll the new me gets back! How many Christians are left here anyway? Gimme their names; I'll show 'em!



Yeah, right.

"
EDIT: Mr. B's original post reply had "I'm done with this" at the bottom."

You're just too fast Banni.....I removed it to put it here...

I'm done with this.

[Mr.B]

Oh, I am a scholar in such things. It's not a matter of memory, it's a matter of understanding. And it's the mind, not "one book" that covers every scenario. My question for you isn't why you don't know everything, but why you're not trying to.

It's also a matter of that being what you do all day long, and how long you've done it. I do not sit with my Bible open in front of me all day long, nor does my ability to support my family depend on my knowing every answer put to me in regards to the Bible.

There's a lot in the Bible that I don't understand, therefore I don't attempt to explain it away.




Now I am finished.

[bannination]

"Granted it is a hard question considering that god was much more evil in the book than the very few mentions of satan doing anything. At least it's giving you something to think about. When a seemingly easy question isn't, maybe it's time to reevaluate."

You know...you're absolutely correct! I'm gonna run right out right now...no, wait, it's dark already...I'll run right out tomorrow and renounce every thing and anything in my life about God, the Bible, etc, tell everyone in my church where they can get off, come back here to this forum and give y'all and 'ol homerfobe a run for your money! You think homey's one bad egg, wait'll the new me gets back! How many Christians are left here anyway? Gimme their names; I'll show 'em!



Yeah, right.

"
EDIT: Mr. B's original post reply had "I'm done with this" at the bottom."

You're just too fast Banni.....I removed it to put it here...

I'm done with this.

Evaluating one question is going to cause you to not be a Christian? You don't think you might be overreacting just a tad?

Here's my prediction, you'll never try to find an answer, and you'll do your best to never think about it again. But hey, miracles happen.

[O Really]

Some may attack Mr.B for what he believes; I just wonder why he takes a document he that he believes to show the way to eternal oneness with the creator of the universe to be so frivolous that he doesn't bother to become a scholar of it. That he doesn't attempt to resolve apparent contradictions. That he doesn't read the writings of theologians who have spent their lives studying the Bible. That he doesn't ask himself, given the eternal and infinite stakes at hand, "have I really got this right?" (If you're still around, Mr.B, sorry to be talking about you like you were furniture, but you said you were gone)

[Mr.B]

Some may attack Mr.B for what he believes; I just wonder why he takes a document he that he believes to show the way to eternal oneness with the creator of the universe to be so frivolous that he doesn't bother to become a scholar of it. That he doesn't attempt to resolve apparent contradictions. That he doesn't read the writings of theologians who have spent their lives studying the Bible. That he doesn't ask himself, given the eternal and infinite stakes at hand, "have I really got this right?" (If you're still around, Mr.B, sorry to be talking about you like you were furniture, but you said you were gone)

OK...one more time, but let's correct that first line....."Some may We attack Mr.B for what he believes"....
Firstly, the Bible is more than a mere document. Every Christian is not expected to know or memorize the Bible inside out...People have spent years studying it; I for one did not make my religion my career when I accepted Christ in 1982; i.e. to become a scholar or a preacher, or a teacher. Had I done so, my inabilities to answer every question that comes along would not be present. Hope this answers your question.

[Mr.B]

Something Different for You...

What is the shortest chapter in the Bible?..... Psalms 117
What is the longest chapter in the Bible?....... Psalms 119
What chapter is in the center of the Bible?..... Psalms 118

In the Bible, there are 594 chapters before Psalms 118....
There are 594 chapters after Psalms 118.....................
Add these numbers up, and you get 1188.....................

What is the center verse in the Bible?............ Psalms 118:8

"It is better to trust in the Lord, than to put confidence in man"

Isn't that strange how this worked out...or do you think maybe God is in the center of it all...?

[O Really]

It's also a matter of that being what you do all day long, and how long you've done it. I do not sit with my Bible open in front of me all day long, nor does my ability to support my family depend on my knowing every answer put to me in regards to the Bible.

There's a lot in the Bible that I don't understand, therefore I don't attempt to explain it away.
...

But neither do I consider labor law to have any affect on my afterlife, or to have any significant impact on the Earth or universe at large.

You believe the Bible to be the specific words/work of the creator of the universe, and provide an inerrant guide to human and after-human existence. That sounds like it would be pretty important to your fundamental belief system. And yet you say, and repeat, that you're not a Biblical scholar. I'm just sayin'.

If I believed the Bible to be my guidebook to either Heaven or Hell, I'm pretty sure I'd spend more effort making sure I knew what it said than to just blow off a confusing part with, "Oh well." I'm pretty sure I'd do diligent research on parts of apparent conflict and do my best to understand how (or if) that occurred. It's not just you, Mr.B - it seems most people who believe the Bible to be the word/work of the creator of the universe don't bother to give it the level of significance that such a document would demand. It's too easy to use it like a "Confucius Says" game, or an I Ching, where text without context can be stretched over any issue. That's fine for people who don't take Biblical writings all that seriously, but real believers should do more.

[O Really]

Something Different for You...

What is the shortest chapter in the Bible?..... Psalms 117
What is the longest chapter in the Bible?....... Psalms 119
What chapter is in the center of the Bible?..... Psalms 118

In the Bible, there are 594 chapters before Psalms 118....
There are 594 chapters after Psalms 118.....................
Add these numbers up, and you get 1188.....................

What is the center verse in the Bible?............ Psalms 118:8

"It is better to trust in the Lord, than to put confidence in man"

Isn't that strange how this worked out...or do you think maybe God is in the center of it all...?

Clever. Sort of like the story of Kennedy and Lincoln - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln%E2 ... ban_legend

BTW, what do you get from the verses continuing after 8 (10-12)? Advocates violence or not?
10 All nations compassed me about: but in the name of the LORD will I destroy them.

11 They compassed me about; yea, they compassed me about: but in the name of the LORD I will destroy them.

12 They compassed me about like bees; they are quenched as the fire of thorns: for in the name of the LORD I will destroy them.

[bannination]

It's also a matter of that being what you do all day long, and how long you've done it. I do not sit with my Bible open in front of me all day long, nor does my ability to support my family depend on my knowing every answer put to me in regards to the Bible.

There's a lot in the Bible that I don't understand, therefore I don't attempt to explain it away.
...

But neither do I consider labor law to have any affect on my afterlife, or to have any significant impact on the Earth or universe at large.

You believe the Bible to be the specific words/work of the creator of the universe, and provide an inerrant guide to human and after-human existence. That sounds like it would be pretty important to your fundamental belief system. And yet you say, and repeat, that you're not a Biblical scholar. I'm just sayin'.

If I believed the Bible to be my guidebook to either Heaven or Hell, I'm pretty sure I'd spend more effort making sure I knew what it said than to just blow off a confusing part with, "Oh well." I'm pretty sure I'd do diligent research on parts of apparent conflict and do my best to understand how (or if) that occurred. It's not just you, Mr.B - it seems most people who believe the Bible to be the word/work of the creator of the universe don't bother to give it the level of significance that such a document would demand. It's too easy to use it like a "Confucius Says" game, or an I Ching, where text without context can be stretched over any issue. That's fine for people who don't take Biblical writings all that seriously, but real believers should do more.

I think that's the crux of the problem, real believers that do more research eventually turn into atheists or agnostics. That was my experience and the experience of lot of people I've met in my life.

The biggest mistake you can make as a believer is actually read and understand the bible which you state your beliefs on, doesn't matter if your Christian, Muslim, whatever.

[Mr.B]

Banni, did you check your PM?

[bannination]

Banni, did you check your PM?

Yep, read it. Takes me a while, today was Obama check day, so I had to be waiting at the mailbox. No wifi- freaking Obama phone cheapskate.

[O Really]

I think that's the crux of the problem, real believers that do more research eventually turn into atheists or agnostics. That was my experience and the experience of lot of people I've met in my life.

The biggest mistake you can make as a believer is actually read and understand the bible which you state your beliefs on, doesn't matter if your Christian, Muslim, whatever.

I don't think more study necessarily leads to atheism or agnosticism, although as you note, it certainly can. I think another possibility is one realizes this topic of "god" - all powerful, creator of the universe - is much more complicated than most think. So you can learn not necessarily that everything in the Bible (or Qu'ran, or Vedas) is wrong, but that nobody has it all right. Portraying an entity considered to be "god" (or "God") as some humanoid who plays with the lives of individual humans and might even care who wins the NASCAR race is incredibility over-simplified and disrespectful to the entire concept of infinite existence.

[Boatrocker]

. . . Portraying an entity considered to be "god" (or "God") as some humanoid who plays with the lives of individual humans and might even care who wins the NASCAR race is incredibility over-simplified and disrespectful to the entire concept of infinite existence.

I also came to believe that it was not possible for a thinking person to reconcile the evangelical notion of The Lord God Almighty, omniscient and omnipotent, creator of Heaven and Earth and all the universe, who watches over us and has a plan for each and every one of us, with His alter ego- who demands 24/7 praise and worship and credit for anything we can think of (AKA ass-kissing) or He get His knickers and in wad.

[rstrong]

The biggest mistake you can make as a believer is actually read and understand the bible which you state your beliefs on, doesn't matter if your Christian, Muslim, whatever.

I thinks that's the second biggest mistake.

The biggest is to study early Christianity. Which leads to the discovery that Christianity was Jewish doomsday cult - with Jesus absolutely clear that The End was coming "within a generation", with those around him living to see it. With Jesus & Friends still being undeniably Jewish. You discover that Christianity gradually only evolved into a separate religion over several generations after the time of Jesus. You discover that it continued to evolve for 400 years, with many Christian beliefs and scriptures edited out and others - like the resurrection and Revelations - added in over the following centuries.

Personally I'm still freaked out to discover that the Lock Ness Monster is a Christian icon. The earliest reference being when Saint Columba converted the Picts by telling Nessie to bugger off. Saints and the rest may not be part of today's Protestant Christianity, but they're certainly in its lineage back to early Christianity.

[Mr.B]

I suppose that one day we'll find out who's right and who's wrong.

[bannination]

I suppose that one day we'll find out who's right and who's wrong.

Nope, you'll just live your life hating other people because of a fairy tale, and when you die things go black. The end.

Make the most of what you have now and love everyone, cause that's all there is.

... and even if not, you lived a better and more moral life than you would have as a Christian.


No need to wait, just describe why all other religions are wrong and yours is correct. Then apply that same principle to your own.