The Religion Thread

[O Really]

No, the polite thing to do would be to wait until the patient asked.

[Seth Milner]

No, the polite thing to do would be to wait until the patient asked.

Suppose the patient had no clue that the doctor was a man or woman of any particular faith? Wouldn't it be offensive for the patient to mistakenly ask a Christian to shake a dead chicken over his head, or ask a Muslim to read some Bible scripture . . .
I mean, after all, we now live in the age of "I'm offended". Just sayin' .

[O Really]

No, the polite thing to do would be to wait until the patient asked.

Suppose the patient had no clue that the doctor was a man or woman of any particular faith? Wouldn't it be offensive for the patient to mistakenly ask a Christian to shake a dead chicken over his head, or ask a Muslim to read some Bible scripture . . .
I mean, after all, we now live in the age of "I'm offended". Just sayin' .

The Christian doc might very well be offended for a patient to ask him to do/say something from another religion, but remember the key point in the origin of this tangent was the power/authority imbalance between the doc and the patient. It's not the same as what might be seen as a client/service provider relationship in another business. And it's certainly not the same as if the patient in the next bed say's "I'll pray for you" as you go out the door.

[Vrede too]

Patients ask for weird shit all the time, we're paid professionally to not take it personally.

... but remember the key point ...

Good luck with that.

By Seth Milner's "reasoning", it's polite for a prison guard to "ask" an inmate for sex.

[Seth Milner]

Patients ask for weird shit all the time, we're paid professionally to not take it personally.
By Seth Milner's "reasoning", it's polite for a prison guard to "ask" an inmate for sex.

Let's review this tangent you started. You originally wrote:

"Interesting kerfluffle developing at my secular hospital - One of the MDs, otherwise one I like a lot, is asking every patient and family whether he can (Christian) pray with them . . . "

When I commented, you, in so many words, accuse me of singling you out and attacking you. Now, your obsession with "weird shit" equates prison guards asking for sex with inmates to doctors asking for permission to pray with someone.

I'm leaving this right here and letting you and the others figure out where this is going.

[Vrede too]

Hospitals have always been happy to call your minister - or a minister of your preferred variety, and many have chapels or quiet spaces for families to pray or whatever they choose to do....

Plus, as I posted originally many, many healthcare workers will pray with a patient and/or family if they request it and I'm fine with that. I've even stood quietly with my eyes closed and head bowed a few times.

Maybe Seth Milner would be accepting of it if he got pulled over by a cop and not see it as inappropriate, abusive or intimidating if the cop said: "You broke the law, sir. Before we move on to discuss how and the penalties, do you mind if we (pray to Jesus, Allah, Trump or the Flying Spaghetti Monster) or (do this Wiccan or Voodoo ceremony)?"

Or, more likely based on his history here, Seth Milner is not so incredibly slow as to not see the problem with a person in power imposing his religion upon a captive and/or needy audience. Rather, he wanted to whine at me, stuck his foot in his obsessive and butthurt mouth again, doesn't have the balls to admit he was wrong and, once he can't even attempt to make a logical, honest or accurate argument anymore, will declare that he was "joking" or really "doesn't care" about the issue at all. Watch.

Or, just as likely, he's a religious bigot and would not be so incredibly slow as to deny the obvious problem if anyone but me had posted about it and the MD was anything but Christian.

No matter, at least one hospital manager already thinks the MD is out of line - I wasn't the first to complain as it turns out - and, being way more socially, healthcare, politically, legally and ethically savvy than Seth Milner - not that it's saying much - just as O Really also is, I'd put the odds at around 90% that the MD will be shut down or let go and Seth Milner will be a looozer yet again.

Sent today:

Re the sensitive topic we discussed Monday morning. Unlikely, but there's the possibility in today's America that this could blow up to a florist/baker/wedding photographer/birth control insurance style mess. There's a huge misunderstanding out there as to what "religious freedom" really means. You have my sympathies, boss, and I'm glad I'm not you.

It's occurred to me that I (and _____?) could have a private, tactful and respectful conversation with him, speaking only for myself/ourselves. I'd have no problem with doing so. On the one hand, this could theoretically resolve the situation without anything becoming "official". On the other hand, it's a _____ policy issue and it could be said that talking to you and passing on any further patient/family complaints is as far as we should go. Let me/us know if you think the former might be the smartest course.

Have you thought about talking with _____? As a chaplain who has always seemed wise to me, he may have a unique perspective and/or ability to resolve things to everyone's satisfaction.

From: (manager)

Good idea, I will mention it to (hospital chaplain).

[O Really]

[ Now, your obsession with "weird shit" equates prison guards asking for sex with inmates to doctors asking for permission to pray with someone.

I'm leaving this right here and letting you and the others figure out where this is going.

The point doesn't equate the prison guards with the doctors, nor the act of guard/inmate sex and doctor/patient praying. What it does is simply taking a bit or reasoning to its logical conclusion. If the act of praying is known to be potentially offensive, but can be made acceptable by asking first, then other acts known to be potentially offensive could, also. As an applicable analogy, it's well known that many inmates have been receptive to such requests, and have also offered. Not that it's not unethical and illegal, but it happens.

[Seth Milner]

Why don't you all go ahead and push to have his ass fired? That'll save a lot of time and worries over it becoming a rights issue; not to mention wasted man-hours emailing back and forth. As I said earlier, you all will be much better employees for it and will be much more capable of keeping your social status' in check. I know if I were working wherever it is you work, I definitely wouldn't want anything going on that's beneath my dignity.

BTW, you got any salve or ointment in your meds locker to soothe your poor aching ass?

[Vrede too]

The concept that Seth Milner is too slow to get or too butthurt and wussy to admit is that it's not really an "ask" when done by a person in power.

... but remember the key point ...

Good luck with that....

Point proved.

[Seth Milner]

The point doesn't equate the prison guards with the doctors, nor the act of guard/inmate sex and doctor/patient praying. What it does is simply taking a bit or reasoning to its logical conclusion. If the act of praying is known to be potentially offensive, but can be made acceptable by asking first, then other acts known to be potentially offensive could, also. As an applicable analogy, it's well known that many inmates have been receptive to such requests, and have also offered. Not that it's not unethical and illegal, but it happens.

I wouldn't know. I don't have expertise in that subject. Asking for sex from a captive participant would be offensive. The one being asked if they would like prayer is not a captive participant. He/she can say no without fear of retribution. Of course, he/she could be ridiculed by bystanders, if any were near. . . such as appears to be the case in thread.

[Seth Milner]

The concept that Seth Milner is too slow to get or too butthurt and wussy to admit is that it's not really an "ask" when done by a person in power.

Well, gee. You didn't say the doctor tied the patient to the bed and "asked" that he/she pray for the patient. That's just too much power for one person to wield. You're right; fire his ass; then go get your salve.

[Vrede too]

... I'm leaving this right here ...

[Seth Milner]

but I can't be had. . . .

[neoplacebo]

Since I've come back to TN I've been thinking that maybe I will join up, or at least attend services at one of those snake handling churches. I've read in the past that those are not uncommon in these parts. Just the idea of "taking up serpents" has an inexplicable allure for me. See you Sunday.

There are, indeed. A couple of years ago Lady O Really and I were over there at, I think, Warrior Path state park and somebody in one of the churches that was close by got bit. No faith, I guess.

That State park is just a few miles from where I am. I used to go swimming there as a kid growing up here. I have decided to seek out this house of worship and explore it assiduously and just to get into their good graces, I figure to make my initial appearance there wearing a boa constrictor for a tie. It'll be great.

[Seth Milner]

I figure to make my initial appearance there wearing a boa constrictor for a tie. It'll be great.

Won't work. It's got to be a poisonous serpent . . . You know, that "they shall take up poisonous serpents" part?

[neoplacebo]

I figure to make my initial appearance there wearing a boa constrictor for a tie. It'll be great.

Won't work. It's got to be a poisonous serpent . . . You know, that "they shall take up poisonous serpents" part?

Yeah, well, the boa is just for appearance sake; just to sort of let them know I'm not a rookie. And I'm no Bible scholar but I remember the line as being that they shall just "take up serpents."

[Vrede too]

I got that the boa constrictor was just for neoplacebo's flashy entrance without needing to have it explained, though I did get an image of him in drag as Britney Spears. Not sure what the Pentecostals would think of that.

KJB, Mark 16:17-18

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

They shall take up serpents ...

"Investigative journalist" Seth Milner flubs research and accuracy, again.

Plus, since he was just making it up anyhow, some snakes are venomous, not "poisonous". Seth Milner flubs English, again.

[Seth Milner]

I got that the boa constrictor was just for neoplacebo's flashy entrance without needing to have it explained, though I did get an image of him in drag as Britney Spears. Not sure what the Pentecostals would think of that.
Don't know about them, but you'd bitch if they started praying. (I know what I'd pray for!)

KJB, Mark 16:17-18

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
They shall take up serpents ...

"Investigative journalist" Seth Milner flubs research and accuracy, again.
Plus, since he was just making it up anyhow, some snakes are venomous, not "poisonous". Seth Milner flubs English, again.
Damn grammar police!

[Seth Milner]

Yeah, well, the boa is just for appearance sake; just to sort of let them know I'm not a rookie.
Jesse Ventura wore a feather boa. That's as close to a boa I'd get to.

And I'm no Bible scholar but I remember the line as being that they shall just "take up serpents."
Teah well, even though I used quote marks, I added "poisonous" because I don't think their handling a non-poisonous snake would impress others with their show of faith. There's another video on YouTube of this same bunch of clowns who's pastor died of a snake-bite.
I suppose that means his faith wavered? Anyway, poisonous or not, I'm not going to "take up" ANY damn snake (or serpent).

[neoplacebo]

I got that the boa constrictor was just for neoplacebo's flashy entrance without needing to have it explained, though I did get an image of him in drag as Britney Spears. Not sure what the Pentecostals would think of that.

KJB, Mark 16:17-18

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

They shall take up serpents ...

"Investigative journalist" Seth Milner flubs research and accuracy, again.

Plus, since he was just making it up anyhow, some snakes are venomous, not "poisonous". Seth Milner flubs English, again.

Ah, I thought we agreed not to let this become public......I may as well go all out now.