Any Green Industries that HAVEN'T failed?

[O Really]

So, what was your handle on BRN?

You know he's the poster formerly known as "Big Ugly" right? In "Reality" he can claim the Guinness record for most ironic screen name.

[DooHickey]

In the mean time, whilst getting back on topic, this piece arrived to coincide with wneglia's original post.

Workers at Chevy Volt battery plant built with $151 million in federal money paid to do nothing for months




Ahhhh......stimulus money. Promises of better times a'coming.

[gongoozler]

No we are lamenting the loss of good money by an ignorant President.

Bush has been out of office for nearly 4 years. ... Do keep up ..

Please let the president know this.

[DooHickey]

No we are lamenting the loss of good money by an ignorant President.

Bush has been out of office for nearly 4 years. ... Do keep up ..

Please let the president know this.

Absolutely! I mean, after all, this "Stimlus" was Bush's idea to begin with, huh?

[neoplacebo]

So it's Ok to break the rules as long as it's in your own best interest. Humm sounds like a liberal to me.

It's a duty to joyfully break unjust rules and ridiculous application of them. Not everyone is as ovine as you.

Absolutely....I myself take every opportunity to break, violate, and stomp on any and all rules, regulations, suggestions, and policies that I find to be questionable or just stupid and wrong. Shoot, I even go out of my way to rip those tags off mattresses that say "do not remove under penalty of law."

[Colonel Taylor]

Vrede the forum Editor. You can't help yourself can ya?

[Colonel Taylor]

Vrede the forum Editor. You can't help yourself can ya?

Det.Thorn, the forum illiterate. Explain how my linked summary was unfair. This should be good.

I never said it takes a leader to follow. I said it takes a leader to Follow Rules or Laws. Two different things when you are talking of a person who is a FOLLOWER. Are you that dumb that you think editing others post to fit what you say then answering them is normal ?

[Colonel Taylor]

Vrede the forum Editor. You can't help yourself can ya?

Det.Thorn, the forum illiterate. Explain how my linked summary was unfair. This should be good.

I never said it takes a leader to follow. I said it takes a leader to Follow Rules or Laws. Two different things when you are talking of a person who is a FOLLOWER. Are you that dumb that you think editing others post to fit what you say then answering them is normal ?

They are the same thing, I paraphrased you accurately, your post makes no sense, and you are too dumb to realize it.

I knew it would be good.

Bla Bla Bla Bla your not worth it.

[Crock Hunter]

No we are lamenting the loss of good money by an ignorant President.

Bush has been out of office for nearly 4 years. ... Do keep up ..

Please let the president know this.

I'll ask the mod to turn on the [irony][/irony] feature so you'll have a clue.. ..

[Tertius]

Green energy has not become cast efficient. Manufacturing cost are too high in the US. When the pay back period is less than two years then if and only if the equipment will hold up for more than ten years. Then green energy will become part of the energy mix.

Yes, there are a few special applications that work today.

Somewhat true, though much more than "a few" and more than "special".

Why is 2 years your cut-off?

If we remove the massive direct and indirect subsidies - pollution, wars, trade imbalance, support for dictators, flattened Appalachians, liability limits, tax breaks, grants, etc. - that fossil fuels and/or nukes enjoy, green energy will suddenly become far more competitive.

Generally when upgrading a piece of equipment or process 18 to 24 months is the payback justification. Technological improvements come so fast longer paybacks will not expire before another upgrade is necessary to compete.

It was the rule of thumb that my bosses required. I used it hen I upgraded my heat and air system 4 years ago. The payback was too long for both solar and geothermal.

Fossil fuel plants take longer than that just to build, nukes far longer. Your personal experience does not apply on the macro level of electricity generation, and with plants whose lifespan is anticipated to be 30 years or longer. Even a homeowner would be penny wise and pound foolish to restrict him or herself that way.

Most green energy companies that failed were not selling products to utility companies.

Most solar sales were targeted at end users. Wind require a change in land use attitudes.

So you say my time line is penny wise and pound foolish. I have my upgrades paid for and am consider addition insulation up grades.

Tell us about your home upgrades. What were the cost and savings of your solar or geothermal system.

It is easy to tell others how to invest and spend their money. There are few of you setting by verifiable example. Most viable solar/geothermal home applications must start before land is purchased and home designed.

[gongoozler]

No we are lamenting the loss of good money by an ignorant President.

Bush has been out of office for nearly 4 years. ... Do keep up ..

Please let the president know this.

I'll ask the mod to turn on the [irony][/irony] feature so you'll have a clue.. ..

I think you need the [BS][/BS] feature instead.

[Tertius]

Your post immediately followed mine discussing a failed large scale, not consumer, Mitten family product. If you're going to change things up you should make yourself more clear.

Yes, automatically declining to save money with a 3 year payback for a fixed asset like a home is penny wise and pound foolish.

Unfortunately, I'm in a condo with restrictions that I bought in order to keep a dying family member out of a nursing home as long as possible. Once I sell it and purchase something else I'll get back to you with my efforts beyond the conservation I'm doing now.

It is a good thing you did. Sorry about the condo mistake. I never met a condo owner that did not regret it.

If green energy is such a good idea you should have no trouble convincing the board or two-thirds of the owners to change the covenants. Just think of all the good you will be doing then.

[Tertius]

It wasn't a mistake, family comes first.

If I intended to stay I'd be more enthusiastic about lobbying the HA. I did try getting just a study of more efficient outdoor lighting. I got summarily shot down and just can't work up the energy for a long term campaign. Have you been to Hooterville?

I'm our HOA treasurer. We just replaced our outdoor lighting with low voltage lights and re-worked the sprinkling system installing plants that tolerate dryer soil. It will be next year this time before I can tell if my forecast are correct.

I don't know how big your association is but my experience is: Just work up the projections yourself and submit the findings. Duke may upgrade your street lighting at no cost to the association.

I assume you pay your own electric bill. Adding insulation to your attic space you can do your own. If you are in an interior unit walls shouldn't be an issue.

I'm off the subject.

[Colonel Taylor]

I was a Certified High Efficient HVAC Contractor a few years back and much of what you read will never pay back. Just a few, I do not remember the exact number but you should be able to find a program online maybe. I paid thousands for mine about 15 years ago.
On a house using six in. walls to get R-19 over R-13 the pay back is most likely longer then you will live after you price the 2x6 over the 2x4, then the price of the insulation, extension jams for the windows and doors, just don't add up. The attic insulation will work up to a point I think anything over R-39 will never pay back. Attic fans are worth their weight in gold. This biggest misnomer of bigger is better, this is the biggest waste of energy there is. Of all the newer furnaces and A/C's I've installed 90% were smaller then the ones I removed.
The second biggest waste was those who on the inside of their home put up plastic and made the house virtually air tight. It don't work the house has to breath, many homes built like this in the 80's had severe mold problems. Cook fish in Jan. and you still smelt it in Oct.
Duke isn't the greatest for helping out. I have had electric companies PAY to have lighting upgrades for commercial buildings over the years. You must remember the less energy used the less wires in the street the electric co. needs to replace/upgrade. Same with High eff. A/c units, less amps is less load on their equipment.
I think is was Oreally in the other forum who brought up windmills at one time. I looked into it for my home here and it's just not worth it. I look at payback of 7 years because that's what the average person used to stay in their home, and what we were told when I took one of the classes. My PB would have been 17 years if I remember and that was with me doing much of the labor.
Also the new thing seems to be geothermal, while you electric bill for the unit may be cheaper there is an added expenses like a pump or maybe even you well running when the unit does and I know the failure rates were pretty high at one time. Compressors and cond. coil failure were pretty high and not cheap to replace. I was once a Heat Pump distributor and installer even longer ago.
I have a 1400 sq. ranch and my elect. bill for the year averages about $70.00 a month with a pool pump that runs 24-7 for 4.5 months, central A/C. and electric heat. Last months bill was $48.00 on an all electric house. I do have a wood stove after Duke and I had it out a few years back. They are thieves who will rob from you like bully taking a lolly pop from a baby. If you think your bill is to high demand they check your meter, they will just say no and no and no but have it done.
Common sense more then anything.

[Leo Lyons]

In the meantime, "The private sector's doing fine". :-0?>

[Wneglia]

Solyndra may cost taxpayers $849 million

[Tertius]

Someone should try to break the corporation. If it can be shown that the individuals acted in a way for personal benefit then they can be held personally libel for the company's debts.

[Supsalemgr]

Solyndra may cost taxpayers $849 million

What tangled webs we weave sometimes. However, If Obama gets re-elected it will only get worse. This deal with Solyndra is just another example of either total incompetence or pure crony capitalism on the part of the Obama administration.

[O Really]

Solyndra may cost taxpayers $849 million

What tangled webs we weave sometimes. However, If Obama gets re-elected it will only get worse. This deal with Solyndra is just another example of either total incompetence or pure crony capitalism on the part of the Obama administration.

You must be getting soft here closer to the election. Usually you have to throw in at least one "failed policies" and one "job-killing regulations" to go along with the "crony capitalism" cliche. Reminds me of a Corporate BS Generator" http://www.atrixnet.com/bs-generator.html

Oh - here's one that's more fun as well as being more on point... http://phrasegenerator.com/politics

[Supsalemgr]

Notice how O Really and Vrede cleverly dodged the fact this fiasco will cost us taxpayers almost $1B? New forum, same BS.