4th of July DUI checkpoint

[bannination]

We all deal with body language. That cop was rude and OBVIOUSLY on a power trip and wanted to make an example of a kid standing up for his rights. There's no law that says you have to roll down your window to an appropriate position designated by the authority. It's pretty obvious from the change in attitude as soon as hey realized they were being recorded. Hm... wonder why.

Nothing says you have drugs like not rolling down your window all the way. The kid was being polite, the cop was being a dick the whole way.

I don't understand why everything has to be either/or. The kid was being an ass. The cop was also an ass. The kid was legally right but clearly was trying to provoke. The cop was on a power trip but the kid was too. His attack on panhandlers has a lot more validity. And he plays guitar pretty well too.

I don't agree that the kid was provoking him. If he was though all you're saying is that a full grown cop can't handle a 21 year old kid so the cop abused his authority.

[Mr.B]

"I don't agree that the kid was provoking him."

Liberals...you gotta love 'em.

[Ombudsman]

consider all the potential encroachments on personal liberties by the nsa as compared to the benefits, as seen from either of your perspectives

then consider something as simple as inspecting cargo containers - the spy guys all agree that the first huge threat - nuclear etc will likely come in a cargo container, yet lil bush all the boys with our credit cards reduced the number of cargo ships inspected from 5% to 2% in 2003

here's an no cost huge benefit idea - inspect 100% and charge the cargo for the inspection and watch the jobs come back to our country.

Let's consider this encroachment. A group of gun nuts living on a compound in Weaverville decide they've had enough of all those damn hippies in Asheville and decide to poison the water supply. NSA computers notice an increased number of calls to the compound, a place known to be the home of several ex-cons and members of the Hell's Angels, and a snitch has warned of the plot so the computer sends a red flag e-mail to a real live person who then suggests that further examination of these people is warranted. So they get a federal warrant at which point they are allowed to listen in on their phones and they discover the plot. According to Banni, these rednecks are too smart for the NSA so surveillance wouldn't matter and saving a 100,000 lives is too expensive because the money might possibly have been spent on breast cancer research which is already overfunded, plus the agent might accidentally hear something really private like a discussion about one of the member's having a yeast infection or something. Do you agree with Banni or would you be in favor of saving lives?

[Ombudsman]

I don't agree that the kid was provoking him. If he was though all you're saying is that a full grown cop can't handle a 21 year old kid so the cop abused his authority.

How could you possibly come to the conclusion he was not provoking? The kids shows up to a DUI check point, with a camera placed exactly where it should be to get his face and the cop's in the shot and refused to roll down the window for no apparent reason? I don't actually believe that you believe a lot things you say you believe.

[Ombudsman]

"I don't agree that the kid was provoking him."

Liberals...you gotta love 'em.

It has nothing to do with being liberal or conservative dumb ass. Don't be an idiot.

[bannination]

consider all the potential encroachments on personal liberties by the nsa as compared to the benefits, as seen from either of your perspectives

then consider something as simple as inspecting cargo containers - the spy guys all agree that the first huge threat - nuclear etc will likely come in a cargo container, yet lil bush all the boys with our credit cards reduced the number of cargo ships inspected from 5% to 2% in 2003

here's an no cost huge benefit idea - inspect 100% and charge the cargo for the inspection and watch the jobs come back to our country.

Let's consider this encroachment. A group of gun nuts living on a compound in Weaverville decide they've had enough of all those damn hippies in Asheville and decide to poison the water supply. NSA computers notice an increased number of calls to the compound, a place known to be the home of several ex-cons and members of the Hell's Angels, and a snitch has warned of the plot so the computer sends a red flag e-mail to a real live person who then suggests that further examination of these people is warranted. So they get a federal warrant at which point they are allowed to listen in on their phones and they discover the plot. According to Banni, these rednecks are too smart for the NSA so surveillance wouldn't matter and saving a 100,000 lives is too expensive because the money might possibly have been spent on breast cancer research which is already overfunded, plus the agent might accidentally hear something really private like a discussion about one of the member's having a yeast infection or something. Do you agree with Banni or would you be in favor of saving lives?

LOL, you just said the current PRISM surveillance is worthless in your own fantasy story. If the NSA is tipped off they can get warrants and eavesdrop on the communications just like they always could. As usual, the first line of defense is your average American! There's nothing wrong with this at all!

Over funded medical research?

[Bungalow Bill]

Random stops and dragnets belong in totalitarian states, not here, though the
Supreme Court has a different opinion on the matter. I'll bet they get more people
without insurance or driver's licenses than they do drunk drivers. I'd have a lawyer
in the passenger's seat who is up on the exact rules for these kinds of stops. Let
the pros handle it. Of course he's garnered a lot of sympathy, there are a lot of
people who feel, rightly or wrongly, that the police are arrogant and bullying Liberals,
we like to stand by our Constitutional rights.

[Ombudsman]

LOL, you just said the current PRISM surveillance is worthless in your own fantasy story. If the NSA is tipped off they can get warrants and eavesdrop on the communications just like they always could. As usual, the first line of defense is your average American! There's nothing wrong with this at all!

What about the second line of defense? In your scenario that should not exist, which would make the first line totally useless.

According to Banni, these rednecks are too smart for the NSA so surveillance wouldn't matter and saving a 100,000 lives is too expensive because the money might possibly have been spent on breast cancer research which is already overfunded, plus the agent might accidentally hear something really private like a discussion about one of the member's having a yeast infection or something.

Over funded medical research?

Yep.

Our analysis reveals a considerable mismatch between funding levels and burden. Some cancers are funded at levels far higher than their relative burden suggests (breast cancer, prostate cancer, and leukemia) while other cancers appear underfunded (bladder, esophageal, liver, oral, pancreatic, stomach, and uterine cancers).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3411479/

Want to try again?

[neoplacebo]

What the kid should have done is roll down the window all the way, turn the radio up all the way, and ask the cop if he wants to buy some heroin.

[homerfobe]

It has nothing to do with being liberal or conservative dumb ass. Don't be an idiot.

You afraid you're going to be out-classed? I saw nothing in the video that the cop did wrong; in the beginning.
You said yourself: Refusing to roll down the window is not being polite. Cops work largely from body language and attitude.
He clearly showed up with the intent to provoke the cop so he could post it on you tube.

The dumb fuck driver started his bullshit by being a smartass; and the liberal dumbfucks side with the kid;
but it has nothing to do with being liberal...oh noooo.

[Ombudsman]

It has nothing to do with being liberal or conservative dumb ass. Don't be an idiot.

You afraid you're going to be out-classed? I saw nothing in the video that the cop did wrong; in the beginning.
You said yourself: Refusing to roll down the window is not being polite. Cops work largely from body language and attitude.
He clearly showed up with the intent to provoke the cop so he could post it on you tube.

The dumb fuck driver started his bullshit by being a smartass; and the liberal dumbfucks side with the kid;
but it has nothing to do with being liberal...oh noooo.

Like Vrede you have difficulty with complexity. A rational person can see that both of the following things are true. The kid intentionally provoked the cop and the kid was legally right. It's not an either/or scenario. It's not a left or right issue. It's an issue of thinking clearly.

[O Really]

Excuse me if it's been mentioned earlier, but can somebody tell me where the "Big Brother" people are on this, since obviously it's a case of the government not only looking at but stopping everybody, most of whom are "innocent" in the hopes of catching some wrongdoers. Seems to me the risk of individual danger is greater driving home than making a phone call.

[Ombudsman]

Excuse me if it's been mentioned earlier, but can somebody tell me where the "Big Brother" people are on this, since obviously it's a case of the government not only looking at but stopping everybody, most of whom are "innocent" in the hopes of catching some wrongdoers. Seems to me the risk of individual danger is greater driving home than making a phone call.

An excellent point which will surely fly over at least one head. According to the logic of the Henny Pennys this kid's you tube metadata will land him in Gitmo. In reality, the content he posted will probably just make the local bubba cops anxious to find a reason to pull him over. But yeah, it's NSA we should be worried about.

[bannination]

An excellent point which will surely fly over at least one head. According to the logic of the Henny Pennys this kid's you tube metadata will land him in Gitmo.

Straw man, as usual. No one has suggested anything of the sort here.

In reality, the content he posted will probably just make the local bubba cops anxious to find a reason to pull him over.

Which would be an abuse of authority.

But yeah, it's NSA we should be worried about.

Why not? Take the same dishonest, Constitution-detesting attitude these cops displayed, along with the revenge motive you cite, hand even more intrusive power with fewer real world restrictions to government and its private contractors with their long history of national security state abuses and the result is predictable.

This.

[Mr.B]

Mr.B wrote:
We all have been stopped at checkpoints at one time or the other, and generally the purpose of is to apprehend holiday drivers that
are under the influence, or with revoked driving privileges.
Vrede replied: Not in this case.
So what was the "case"? In the video I saw him pulling into an established checkpoint where he was told to move forward to the front of the line. Do you know if the kid deliberately sought out a checkpoint so as to create a confrontation?

Mr.B:
The kid was merely a smart-ass who gets his jollies posting on YouTube to make it appear he was the poor victim of police abuse.
Vrede: He was, a faked dog alert by a lying cop.
After he created a suspicious attitude by being a smart-ass.

Mr.B:
Rolling the window down would afford the possibility of smelling alcohol or other substances had he been indulging in same.
Vrede: Wrong, the window was open enough to do that.
It's dark, the window is dirty; I would want to see who I was talking to myself. The kid had his hands on the wheel, but
how would the cop know whether or not he had a gun on his lap?

Mr.B:
Had he complied with the officer's request in the beginning, he would have long been on his way; instead he chose to be an all constitution-knowing butthole.
Vrede: Knowing the Constitution and being a butthole are not illegal.
Being a butthole cop is not illegal either. As I stated, the liberal anti-authority hero in this scenario is the kid who provoked the cop, whereas the cop, reacting to gut-instinct, is the Gestapo-type scumbag.

[Mr.B]

"Why is it that you are so strenuously defending the only illegal activity we witnessed in this video?
What part of "illegal" so difficult for you to understand?"

It's not illegal if the cop has cause; the kid created the cause. Had he complied with the officer's request, like everyone else did/does,
there would not have been any problem; he challenged the cop....but then we wouldn't be discussing this smart-assed kid's glory-seeking video either,
would we?

[Mr.B]

"If a cop requests that I suck him off I'm not going to."

Was that really necessary?

[bannination]

"Why is it that you are so strenuously defending the only illegal activity we witnessed in this video?
What part of "illegal" so difficult for you to understand?"

It's not illegal if the cop has cause; the kid created the cause. Had he complied with the officer's request, like everyone else did/does,
there would not have been any problem; he challenged the cop....but then we wouldn't be discussing this smart-assed kid's glory-seeking video either,
would we?

Mr. B's version of probable cause for a drug search is not rolling a window down to it's correct height? Crap, what if my Window is broken?

[billy.pilgrim]

"Why is it that you are so strenuously defending the only illegal activity we witnessed in this video?
What part of "illegal" so difficult for you to understand?"

It's not illegal if the cop has cause; the kid created the cause. Had he complied with the officer's request, like everyone else did/does,
there would not have been any problem; he challenged the cop....but then we wouldn't be discussing this smart-assed kid's glory-seeking video either,
would we?

Mr. B's version of probable cause for a drug search is not rolling a window down to it's correct height? Crap, what if my Window is broken?

ol bb doesn't even push for a "probable cause", in is version of our rights, the cop only needs a "cause" - "a cause I want to clause", if you will, or maybe a "cause I gotta gun" clause

[Mr.B]

"You don't understand probable cause at all, do you?"

"ol bb doesn't even push for a "probable cause", in is version of our rights, the cop only needs a "cause" - "a cause I want to clause",
if you will, or maybe a "cause I gotta gun" clause"

Good lord. You think maybe "cause" and "probable cause" meant the same thing? Do you need me draw you a picture as well?
You two sure get your step-ins wadded in a hurry, don't you?