Gun Legislation

[rstrong]

From this week's News of the Weird:

Among the Americans (all males, as usual) who accidentally shot themselves recently: A 19-year-old man, with the AR-15 assault weapon he had just stolen (Independence, Ore., March)*. An angler, shooting salmon (Thurston County, Wash., October). An 18-year-old man, shot in the "groin" while cleaning his gun (Port St. Lucie, Fla., September). A 59-year-old poor-multitasker, who tripped and fell holding his shotgun while talking on the phone to his girlfriend (St. Matthews, S.C., September)*. A police officer serving an arrest warrant (shot in the buttocks) (Mercer Island, Wash., November). A 54-year-old man at a gun show, mistaken about whether his gun was loaded) (Des Moines, Iowa, January). A 22-year-old man, showing off and flummoxed by whether a bullet was still in the chamber (Stamford, Conn., September)*. An 18-year-old man, similarly flummoxed (and suffering the same fate) (St. Petersburg, Fla., January)*.

(* indicates people who will never make that mistake again, or any other) Independence: [KGW-TV (Portland, Ore.), 3-4-2013] Thurston: [The Olympian (Olympia, Wash.), 10-1-2012] Port St. Lucie: [WTSP-TV (St. Petersburg, Fla.), 9-10-2012] St. Matthews: [Associated Press via WYFF-TV (Greenville), 9-21-2012] Mercer Island: [KOMO-TV (Seattle), 11-29-2012] Des Moines: [Des Moines Register, 1-25-2013] Stamford: [Stamford Advocate, 9-14-2012] St. Petersburg: [Tampa Bay Online, 1-10-2013]

Also:

One of the many decisions greeting Pope Francis, as Salon.com pointed out, is whether to officially recognize a Patron Saint of Handgunners -- as urged by a U.S. organization of activists for more than 20 years. According to legend, St. Gabriel Possenti rescued an Italian village from a small band of pillagers (and perhaps rapists) in the 19th century by shooting at a lizard in the road, killing it with one shot, which supposedly so terrified the bandits that they fled. No humans were harmed, activists now point out, signifying the handgun was obviously a force for good. The head of the St. Gabriel Possenti Society has noted that, however far-fetched the "lizard incident" may be, it was rarely questioned until U.S. anti-gun activists gained strength in the 1980s. [Salon, 2-21-2013]

And:

Gary Ericcson, 46, was distraught in January at being charged with animal cruelty in shooting to death his beloved pet snake. He told the Charlotte Observer that he is not guilty, as the dear thing had already passed away and that he shot it only "to get the gas out" so that other animals would not dig it up after he buried it. He said he was so despondent (fearing that a conviction will prevent him from being allowed to have even dogs and cats) that in frustration he had shot up and destroyed a large cabinet that housed his Dale Earnhardt collectibles. [Charlotte Observer, 1-3-2013]

Meanwhile:

-- We Must Kill This Legislation Because Too Many People Are for It: In February, the North Carolina House of Representatives Rules Committee took the unusual step of pre-emptively burying a bill to legalize prescription marijuana (which 18 states so far have embraced). WRAL-TV (Raleigh-Durham) reported Rep. Paul Stam's explanation: Committee members were hearing from so many patients and other constituents (via phone calls and emails) about the importance of medical marijuana to them that the representatives were feeling "harassed." [WRAL-TV, 2-20-2013]

[GoCubsGo]

Taking a page from the TP, hit them where it hurts:


Occupy The NRA to Occupy Three Major Wall Street Firms, Deliver Message: ‘Divest from Gun Makers Now. Your Profit Is Our Loss’

http://interoccupy.net/occupythenra/occ ... -our-loss/

[rstrong]

From this week's News of the Weird:

...An 18-year-old man, shot in the "groin" while cleaning his gun (Port St. Lucie, Fla., September)...

Worth repeating:

That's what happens when a dyslexic tries to cock a gun.

Also from News of the Weird, back in 1996:

Hired gun Chang Thong Vo as gunned down by a rival gang. Vo was better known on the streets of Chinatown as "No Wang Vo" because of an accident with the .45-calibre handgun he kept stuffed down the front of his baggy blue jeans.

[GoCubsGo]

But it doesn't really hurt them.

I am a veteran of the 1980s South Africa divestment movement. After years of study I came to realize that while it was a decent organizing tool it is financially ineffective. Any stock that is artificially undervalued due to divestment will be immediately snapped up in the global marketplace by those without moral restraint, thus instantly negating any supposed gains.

It's not possible to organize around the tactic without misleading folks as to its real world effect. Stock prices and investor profits just aren't going to change as a result.

This is even more true for gun makers than it was for the relatively limited number of corporations that were very active in South Africa. Enough of the entire world divesting from gun stocks to make the bosses sweat? C'mon.

At my school we created an uproar, did not achieve divestment, and had exactly the same PR effect on South Africa and its corporate benefactors as those schools that did divest. I eventually wished that we'd pushed the school for shareholder resolutions, product and intellectual boycotts, and other corporate campaign strategies - things we likely would have won and that would have had a more direct impact on the corporations and South Africa.

My two cents worth.

Good post.

[O Really]

The real battle here isn't practical, but political. It isn't about guns, per se, nor about the Second Amendment. The gun experts are right, in general, that banning a particular gun on the basis of its appearance would have no significant impact on gun violence. There are already more guns in the US than could ever be gotten rid of, even if there really were an effort to get rid of them. Even if no new ones were manufactured or sold at retail, there's enough guns to fuel our gun culture for decades.

But there are some things that can be done to change that culture, none of which can possibly be accomplished as long as the NRA controls the legislatures and Congress. So the real battle is against the NRA - not against individual gun owners. Congress and the states need to pass something - practically anything - that the NRA hates and opposes strongly, just to show it can be done and that the sun will still rise in the morning. Take away their Oz-like mantle of invincibility and maybe some changes that would make a difference can be made.

[Mad American]

Congress and the states need to pass something - practically anything - that the NRA hates and opposes strongly, just to show it can be done and that the sun will still rise in the morning. Take away their Oz-like mantle of invincibility and maybe some changes that would make a difference can be made.

You mean like the democrats and Clinton did in 1994??? Tell us again just how did that work out???

Seems to me that there are a lot of people smarter than you, who are not willing to bet their political careers or the slim Dem majority in The Senate on bucking gun owners again. Are you???

[Ombudsman]

You mean like the democrats and Clinton did in 1994??? Tell us again just how did that work out??

How did lifting the ban work out?

[O Really]

Congress and the states need to pass something - practically anything - that the NRA hates and opposes strongly, just to show it can be done and that the sun will still rise in the morning. Take away their Oz-like mantle of invincibility and maybe some changes that would make a difference can be made.

You mean like the democrats and Clinton did in 1994??? Tell us again just how did that work out???

Seems to me that there are a lot of people smarter than you, who are not willing to bet their political careers or the slim Dem majority in The Senate on bucking gun owners again. Are you???

Gun owners aren't the enemy - the NRA is. Gingrich's contract on America wasn't over guns. But you make my point - the legislators and members of Congress that are owned by or beholden to the NRA aren't going to buck it. Is there some reason you think putting a special interest lobbyist association over your constituents is a good thing? The NRA has (according to a probably inflated self-count), four million members. That's what percentage of the US population? Or put another way, it's about one-fourth of the number of people watching "Dancing with the Stars".
Why do the rest of us gun owners put up with them?

[Ombudsman]

Gee, why are there so many guns in Chicago?

Gang member got weapons from college student who went on shopping sprees across state line, investigators say

A federal indictment charges the two with illegally selling 43 firearms to the government informant in just under 26 hours, a volume made possible by gun shows and less restrictive state laws in Indiana, by far the No. 1 source of out-of-state guns used in crimes in Cook County. Private gun sales in Indiana don't require background checks, a waiting period or even a record of the transaction.

With assistance from the gun lobby, you can do anything you set your mind to.

[rstrong]

You mean like the democrats and Clinton did in 1994??? Tell us again just how did that work out???

You mean the 10-year assault weapon ban? The NRA may have used it to induce pearl-clutching horror among its members, but those were votes that Clinton never would have gotten anyway. The average American did not care.

These days the average American is more aware of the issue, and polls cited here show that such a ban would be well-supported by voters.

Or do you mean the one lasting gun control law from the Clinton era? The Brady Bill? Named for a Republican press secretary and organized by his wife?

Here's an editorial about it by a chap named Ronald Reagan:

NYT: Ronald Reagan - Why I'm for the Brady Bill

Again, NRA hysteria mongering aside, it had little if any effect in the election.

Tell us again just how did that work out???

Clinton was reelected in 1996, by an even wider margin than in 1992. Your point?

[Leo Lyons]

This is supposed to be true, but I didn't bother to verify it because it sounded too good to be true....


One night recently around midnight, a woman from Houston, Texas was arrested, jailed, and charged with manslaughter for shooting a man six times in the back as he was running away with her purse. The following Monday morning, the woman was called in front of the arraignment judge, sworn-in, and asked to explain her actions.

The woman replied, "I was standing at the corner bus stop for about 15 minutes, waiting for the bus to take me home after work.
I am a waitress at a local cafe. I was there alone, so I had my right hand on my pistol in my purse hanging on my left shoulder. All of a sudden I was spun around hard to my left. As I caught my balance, I saw a man running away with my purse. I looked down at my right hand and saw that my fingers were still wrapped tightly around my pistol."

"The next thing I remember is saying out loud, 'No Way Punk! You're not stealing my hard-earned pay check and tips.'
I raised my right hand, pointed my pistol at the man with my purse running away from me , and started squeezing the
trigger!"

When asked by the arraignment judge, "Why did you shoot the man six times?

The woman replied under oath, "Because, when I pulled the trigger the seventh time, it only went click."

[Leo Lyons]

...An 18-year-old man, shot in the "groin" while cleaning his gun (Port St. Lucie, Fla., September)...

Worth repeating:

That's what happens when a dyslexic tries to cock a gun.

Or if he tries to gun his........? :-0?>

[Mad American]

You mean like the democrats and Clinton did in 1994??? Tell us again just how did that work out??

How did lifting the ban work out?

Oh, you mean the one that was proven ineffective in stopping anything when it came to modern sporting arms. Logic dictates that since the ban was proven ineffective, removing it was of no consequence.

[Mad American]

Gun owners aren't the enemy - the NRA is. Gingrich's contract on America wasn't over guns. But you make my point - the legislators and members of Congress that are owned by or beholden to the NRA aren't going to buck it. Is there some reason you think putting a special interest lobbyist association over your constituents is a good thing? The NRA has (according to a probably inflated self-count), four million members. That's what percentage of the US population? Or put another way, it's about one-fourth of the number of people watching "Dancing with the Stars".
Why do the rest of us gun owners put up with them?

You have just proven my point...thanks. You say that the NRA is the big bad boogeyman win this discussion yet does not have enough members to sway any election. However, the Clinton ban of '94 led to a ground swell of what must have been non-NRA member gun owners and the one of the largest party swings in congress. So which is it...the NRA...or the gun owning Americans that refuse to have politicians trying to trample The Constitution???

[Mad American]

Gee, why are there so many guns in Chicago?

Gang member got weapons from college student who went on shopping sprees across state line, investigators say

A federal indictment charges the two with illegally selling 43 firearms to the government informant in just under 26 hours, a volume made possible by gun shows and less restrictive state laws in Indiana, by far the No. 1 source of out-of-state guns used in crimes in Cook County. Private gun sales in Indiana don't require background checks, a waiting period or even a record of the transaction.

With assistance from the gun lobby, you can do anything you set your mind to.

So by referencing illegal (prevented by law) activity Ombudsman thinks that proves a point that we need MORE laws. :-0?> Thanks for proving the point that criminals don't follow the LAW idiot!

[Mad American]

Tell us again just how did that work out???

Clinton was reelected in 1996, by an even wider margin than in 1992. Your point?

Ask the members of congress that were FIRED in the 1994 midterm elections. We are talking about that election. You know the one that resulted in one of the largest congressional swings in party balance of power in American history!

[Mad American]

...Seems to me that there are a lot of people smarter than you, who are not willing to bet their political careers or the slim Dem majority in The Senate on bucking gun owners again. Are you???

As O Really says, gun owners aren't the problem, most of them disagree with you. The issue is the gun makers' campaign money, and here you are shilling for them for free.

Then you have nothing to worry about. Contact your democrat senators, tell them to pass every gun control measure they can, and let the chips fall where they may in November 2014.

[O Really]

Tell us again just how did that work out???

Clinton was reelected in 1996, by an even wider margin than in 1992. Your point?

Ask the members of congress that were FIRED in the 1994 midterm elections. We are talking about that election. You know the one that resulted in one of the largest congressional swings in party balance of power in American history!

True event, wrong interpretation. Contract on America wasn't over guns or gun control laws. Here's one summary of how the turnover occurred and the plan the Republicans ran on. Guns aren't in a major part of it, if at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_with_America

[Mad American]

True event, wrong interpretation. Contract on America wasn't over guns or gun control laws. Here's one summary of how the turnover occurred and the plan the Republicans ran on. Guns aren't in a major part of it, if at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_with_America

Funny, I have not mentioned the Contract With America (love the play on words by the way) or that the gun issue was the ONLY contributor. However, if you think that the Clinton ban had nothing to do with the '94 midterms then I've got a bridge to sell you.

[O Really]

True event, wrong interpretation. Contract on America wasn't over guns or gun control laws. Here's one summary of how the turnover occurred and the plan the Republicans ran on. Guns aren't in a major part of it, if at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_with_America

Funny, I have not mentioned the Contract With America (love the play on words by the way) or that the gun issue was the ONLY contributor. However, if you think that the Clinton ban had nothing to do with the '94 midterms then I've got a bridge to sell you.

No you didn't mention the Contract, but one can't discuss the '94 turnover without doing so. Most knowledgeable people on both sides credit (or blame) Newt and the Contract for the turnover. I'm sure gun control was an issue for a certain percentage of the population, as it always is - and probably for you and your friends - and undoubted stirred up the NRA. Probably some lost their seats over it, but nevertheless, there was substantial support nationally for legislation such as Brady Bill as well as the "Assault Rifle" ban. If you think most Americans are single-issue voters and their most important issue is guns, you'll be the one buying the bridge to nowhere.