2016 Elections

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rstrong
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Re: 2016 Elections

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"That's different from being born on foreign soil," McCain said of his own situation, noting that the Panama Canal was an unorganized territory of the United States for much of the 20th century.
No, it isn't. That means that the Canal Zone was US-controlled, but not part of the US. It was still sovereign Panamanian territory. Which is why the vast number of Panamanians living in the Canal Zone didn't get American citizenship when born.

The same goes for the Coco Solo military base within the Canal Zone, where McCain was born. An overseas US military installation is NOT US territory. The land is leased from the host country, and is still the territory of the host country.

For the definitive answer on military bases and citizenship:

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86755.pdf [PDF]
"c. Birth on U.S. Military Base Outside of the United States or Birth on U.S. Embassy or Consulate Premises Abroad:

(1) Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities abroad are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not born in the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth.

(2) The status of diplomatic and consular premises arises from the rules of law relating to immunity from the prescriptive and enforcement jurisdiction of the receiving State; the premises are not part of the territory of the United States of America. (See Restatement (Third) of Foreign Relations Law, Vol. 1, Sec. 466, Comment a and c (1987). See also, Persinger v. Iran, 729 F.2d 835 (D.C. Cir. 1984). "
One could also argue that McCain does not meet the other popular definition of "Natural Born Citizen", "A US citizen at the moment of birth." Under the rules at the time he was born a US national (that is, subject to US law and control) but not a US citizen (no right to vote, etc.) Congress changed the rules 11 months after he was born, giving him citizenship.

Congress wisely granted an exemption to McCain - through a unanimous but non-binding Senate resolution sponsored by Hillary Clinton and Obama - so that he could run. (Had McCain won the election, the far right would be writing birther articles about McCain instead.)

Having said all that, McCain is correct that Cruz's eligibility is an open question. One of the two common definitions for "Natural Born Citizen" is "born on American soil." The issue is unresolved, and will remain so until the Supreme Court rules on it.

That definition isn't some birther-style rationalization with no legal backing: Black's Law Dictionary - the most widely used law dictionary in the United States - defines "Natural Born Citizen" as "A person born within the jurisdiction of a national government". Cruz was born outside of US jurisdiction, so he does not meet that definition.

And that's how the law is currently applied. Anyone born in Puerto Rico is a U.S. citizen at the moment of birth. But since Puerto Rico is not U.S. soil, those US citizens are not "natural born" US citizens and are not eligible to serve as U.S. president.

The bottom line: Cruz would probably get an exemption from Congress like McCain did (rather than tackle the Puerto Rico issue), and the Democrats would probably be overjoyed to go along with it.


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rstrong
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Re: 2016 Elections

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I'm aware of that. The problem is that it's merely an opinion. The status of Puerto Ricans has evolved over the years to the point where they really should be considered natural born citizens. They really should be allowed to run for President.

The fact remains that they're not allowed to run for President. Congress or the courts will have to change that.

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Vrede too
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Re: 2016 Elections

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rstrong wrote:
Vrede too wrote:

Pretty nasty. POTUS aspirants raise money and campaign, duh, briefings and hearings aren't that important to be at when one has aides, 1 vote margins are rare and I'll bet Rubio was there for most or all of them. Right To Rise USA is Jeb's super pac.
It's awful of Hillary* to run a sleazy attack ad like that.

* Republicans blamed the attack "documentary" "When Mitt Romney Came to Town" on Democrats. Never mind that it was created and promoted by Romney's Republican opponents in the primaries.

Writer/director Jason Meath, who between elections works for an ad firm run and staffed by Republican election officials, had a tougher job this election cycle: He wrote and directed Citizen Carly, an attempt to make Carly Fiorina - a lower profile, less successful, less rational, less honest version of Donald Trump - look like a viable candidate.
A sequel.



"Doesn't show up for work . . . but wants a promotion?" is a pretty good line. Never mind that Rubio's strongest opponent until last Summer was retiree Jeb with nothing but free time to campaign.

Looks like Jeb is thinking that Trump and Cruz will implode on their own and is pinning his dim hopes on it.
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Vrede too
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Re: 2016 Elections

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Bernie Sanders Says He's Democrats' Most Electable Presidential Candidate

... Sanders cited a Quinnipiac Poll released last month showing he fares better than his main Democratic opponent Hillary Clinton against Republican front-runner Donald Trump. The poll shows Sanders beating Trump by 13 points, compared to Clinton’s smaller margin of 7 points....
Could be a poser for those leaning towards Hillary but not committed. General election electability is always a factor for both parties.
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Re: 2016 Elections

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Vrede too wrote: . . . "Doesn't show up for work . . . but wants a promotion?" is a pretty good line. Never mind that Rubio's strongest opponent until last Summer was retiree Jeb with nothing but free time to campaign . . . .
I have no problem with his missing votes. Wish more wingnuts would miss votes.
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rstrong
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Re: 2016 Elections

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Vrede too wrote:Republican presidential hopefuls tread lightly on Oregon militia news

In other words - Republican presidential hopefuls tread lightly on white, con, welfare rancher terrorists
The Oregon militia is a perfect microcosm for a Republican-run government. They spent all their money on guns and forgot about food and medicine.

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Re: 2016 Elections

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rstrong wrote:
Vrede too wrote:Republican presidential hopefuls tread lightly on Oregon militia news

In other words - Republican presidential hopefuls tread lightly on white, con, welfare rancher terrorists
The Oregon militia is a perfect microcosm for a Republican-run government. They spent all their money on guns and forgot about food and medicine.

You left out
Fight to the death for nonexistent causes.


And as for forgetting food and medicine, I'm not so sure these were ever considered. These people have always lived on the government teat, or some other such nanny. Hasn't bundy's mommy been begging food for them.
Trump: “We had the safest border in the history of our country - or at least recorded history. I guess maybe a thousand years ago it was even better.”

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Vrede too
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Re: 2016 Elections

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billy.pilgrim wrote:You left out ...
They're living in government housing.
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Re: 2016 Elections

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Dear MoveOn member,

It's official: MoveOn members have voted to endorse Bernie Sanders for president. Now, we will mobilize and help him win.

After more than 340,000 ballots were cast in a four-day membership vote, Bernie Sanders has earned our endorsement with an overwhelming 79% of votes cast, far more than the 67% threshold required for an endorsement. That's the best-ever performance of any presidential candidate in MoveOn's 17-year history.

This vote was not only decisive, but participation was broad-based, with more ballots cast than any other endorsement vote in MoveOn's history....

The corporate media and D.C. pundits have tried to ignore the movement that’s been building behind the Sanders campaign for months. The massive rallies, record-breaking grassroots fundraising, and thousands of new voters getting engaged for the first time have barely registered over the media obsession with Trump and the Republican horserace.

But a strong showing in the Iowa caucuses or the New Hampshire primary could help catapult Bernie to the Democratic nomination. And recent polls show Sanders with a small lead in both states.(1)

And looking ahead to November, multiple polls are now showing that Bernie is the strongest Democrat to take on Donald Trump and other right-wing Republicans.(2)

... As we promised in the endorsement vote, now that we've endorsed, we’ll run a 100% positive campaign for Bernie Sanders. And we will come together to help the Democratic nominee win and keep a Republican out of the White House in November—no matter who ends up winning the primary....

Bernie Sanders - 78.60%, 267,749 votes cast
Hillary Clinton - 14.62%, 49,811 votes Cast
Martin O'Malley - 0.87% - 2,950 votes Cast
Do Not Endorse - 5.92% - 20,155 votes Cast
Total Valid Votes Cast: 340,665
Granted, MoveOn is largely progressive activists, but still a bigger margin than I would have guessed.

I must have missed the "100% positive campaign" promise when I voted. Concerns about that plus other possible acrimony led me to be a "Do Not Endorse" voter despite my being a Bernie fan.
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Wneglia
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Re: 2016 Elections

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Image

:mrgreen:

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Vrede too
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Re: 2016 Elections

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Wneglia, politically you're probably the closest we have in this forum to an average American. If you had to decide now, who would be your 1st and 2nd choices among all the candidates for POTUS?
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Re: 2016 Elections

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Vrede too wrote:Wneglia, politically you're probably the closest we have in this forum to an average American...
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: 2016 Elections

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Vrede too wrote:Wneglia, politically you're probably the closest we have in this forum to an average American. If you had to decide now, who would be your 1st and 2nd choices among all the candidates for POTUS?
Other than "None of the Above", I would probably choose Kasich 1st, Bush 2nd. If Trump gets the nomination, I may just sit this one out.

:mrgreen:

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Wneglia
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Re: 2016 Elections

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O Really wrote:
Vrede too wrote:Wneglia, politically you're probably the closest we have in this forum to an average American...
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I agree. That IS funny.
:crazy: :crazy:

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Re: 2016 Elections

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Wneglia wrote:
Vrede too wrote:Wneglia, politically you're probably the closest we have in this forum to an average American. If you had to decide now, who would be your 1st and 2nd choices among all the candidates for POTUS?
Other than "None of the Above", I would probably choose Kasich 1st, Bush 2nd. If Trump gets the nomination, I may just sit this one out.

:mrgreen:
I'd also pick Kasich at best choice among the Republicans, not that I'd actually vote for a Republican. But I lived through little Bush in Florida. He's not all that. Rubio is way over his head, and Cruz and Christie have lost theirs. The difference in Rubio and Obama, Clinton, and Kennedy all of whom were young with relatively short resumes is that all but Rubio had worked toward a goal of being President all their lives, particularly Clinton. They were also all students of government and politics. Rubio, on the other hand, is not. Fiorina, Carson, Hucklebee are all "you can't be serious" candidates, along with wannabe Paul. So I guess if I had to take a second pick among the Republicans, it would be Trump. :o

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rstrong
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Re: 2016 Elections

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As I mentioned on the first page, electing Jeb! means that the War on Terror would be over. Jeb! is old-school, from when state-sponsored terrorism was peachy-keen.

Jeb! arranged the pardon and residency in the US for Orlando Bosch with his dad. Bosch was responsible for bombings from South America to Florida to Canada, and even a car bomb in Washington DC. His "greatest hit" was bombing an airliner out of the sky, killing 73 people.

As Salon put it:
Indicted by the feds, Recarey fled the country — but not before Jeb placed a call on his behalf to his presidential dad’s health and human services secretary, Margaret Heckler. For serving as the flunky of a crook, he received a generous tip of $75,000 from Recarey, a mob associate. He performed a similar service, with more success, on behalf of the Cuban militant Orlando Bosch, for whom he sought a presidential pardon from his father. The boastful murderer of dozens of innocent people — and a prosecution target of the U.S. Justice Department — Bosch deserved a pardon about as much as the worst jihadi in Gitmo. But his sponsors were the same Cuban-Americans in Miami who had fostered Jeb’s real estate business there, so he ignored the Republican attorney general’s denunciation of Bosch as an “unreformed terrorist.”
It seems like Jeb! is running only to make the point that there's some things even Trump wouldn't do.

If America goes full Honey Boo Boo and elects Jeb!, it would be awkward for the CIA to switch back from torturing terror suspects to hiring them again. Perhaps they can rectally feed them chocolate and brandy first. Or hire instead from Y'all Qaeda in Oregon.

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Re: 2016 Elections

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Don't forget Terri Schiavo.
Wneglia wrote:
O Really wrote:
Vrede too wrote:Wneglia, politically you're probably the closest we have in this forum to an average American...
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I agree. That IS funny.
:crazy: :crazy:
I was being sincere, what's the joke?
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O Really
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Re: 2016 Elections

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Vrede too wrote: I was being sincere, what's the joke?
Understood that you said "politically" but still...
The average family income is around $50K; wneglia's is a gazillion.
Average education is less than college, with only about 25% holding a 4-year degree and less than ten percent with a graduate degree. wneglia is an MD, probably less than 2% of the population. Average American is only (by definition) average smart. Given his educational level and career achievements, wneglia is probably 98th pctl or so. Given his occupation, he's going to have not-average views on healthcare, as well as other topics. Those things alone mean that whether Dem or Republican, he's not going to be "average" politically.

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Re: 2016 Elections

Unread post by Vrede too »

I solely meant that he's probably the closest we currently have to US middle of the road "politically", however he ended up there. Do you have an alternate suggestion? I understand that he's not "average" by other demographic measures.
Wneglia wrote:... If Trump gets the nomination, I may just sit this one out....
None of the Dems would be better?
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