President* Trump

[neoplacebo]

I don't know if some of you guys were around during Watergate, or if you were old enough to understand what was going on, but for those of you that were, does the drama surrounding the leaks coming out of Trump administration thus far compare? It seems like some of these revelations are cause for concern.

Yeah, I remember Watergate, and how rabid Nixon was to lie and have others lie is pretty much the same as what some of these Trumpettes are mired in now. I just hope the end result is the same in this case as it was then. The best part will be when President* Trump is forced to announce to the entire nation that "I am not a crook."

[O Really]

I don't know if some of you guys were around during Watergate, or if you were old enough to understand what was going on, but for those of you that were, does the drama surrounding the leaks coming out of Trump administration thus far compare? It seems like some of these revelations are cause for concern.

I was around for Watergate, and yes, it looks like this will be a major scandal before it's over. For one thing, there are many similarities between Trump and Nixon - similarities in areas that caused Nixon's downfall. Of course, one big difference is that Nixon was a very competent and capable President. But they both are (or in Nixon's case, were) highly paranoid, demanding of extreme personal loyalty, and authoritarian in approach. It was those traits that got Nixon booted. It may be hard to believe now, but Nixon got elected in 1968 as the anti-war candidate. He "promised" to get the US out of Vietnam. Humphrey doomed himself because he was too loyal to totally toss LBJ under the bus and wasn't seen as much of a "change" as Nixon. (sound familiar?) So Nixon went three and a half years, pursuing the war until almost election time and which point he starts looking like he's really pulling out. The war was a central issue in the '72 campaign, and the Watergate break-in occurred during that time but was initially poo-poohed by Republicans as simply "dirty tricks," sorta like "locker room chatter" or "fake news." And of course Nixon's response ranged from something like, "didn't happen...don't know anything about it... who are these people...I'm not a crook..." etc. until eventually the cover-up was exposed. But here's where you see what a Trumper Nixon was. He didn't need to try to harm the Democrats to win the election. He was going to win anyway. He was wanting to cause significant damage just because he could.

So yeah, Trump is taking Nixon's approach in being secretive, distrust, and of course deny deny deny. And the facts will keep leaking out and being discovered and eventually it will blow. IMNVHO it's past the point where a competent crisis manager could have helped. NTTAWWT.

[Vrede too]

Mr.B misses or runs shrieking away from the point, yet again. JTA and I agree that for better or worse pols invite guests/speakers to make a point. However, this tangent started because Kellyanne Conway exploited the SEAL's widow to pass on a complete lie about Debbie Wasserman Schultz. That is entirely different from a Gold Star father being given a platform to air his honest opinions about President* Trump's constitutional ignorance and religious bigotry.

[Vrede too]

I agree with O Really re the Watergate similarities. Here are some differences:

Nixon had been in office 4+ years, not just 1+ month.
Watergate was about Americans messing with an election, not a foreign power.
The Watergate leaks came out over a much longer period of time.
There were relatively few Watergate leakers at first. Now, it seems that a significant portion of government is disturbed by what Trump has done and is doing.
Then, ethical Dems and Republicans were willing to fairly investigate in the interests of the nation and democracy. That may be starting to happen now among some patriotic Republicans, but it's too early to say for sure yet.

[billy.pilgrim]

I agree with O Really re the Watergate similarities. Here are some differences:

Nixon had been in office 4+ years, not just 1+ month.
Watergate was about Americans messing with an election, not a foreign power.
The Watergate leaks came out over a much longer period of time.
There were relatively few Watergate leakers at first. Now, it seems that a significant portion of government is disturbed by what Trump has done and is doing.
Then, ethical Dems and Republicans were willing to fairly investigate in the interests of the nation and democracy. That may be starting to happen now among some patriotic Republicans, but it's too early to say for sure yet.

Nixon was smarter than trump

as for the timing, if lbj had exposed him for colluding with the enemy to extend the war - he would have never lasted a month - likely would not have been elected

[k9nanny]

We can hope that 45 will end the same as Nixon:

You won't have Nixon to kick around anymore, because, gentlemen, this is my last press conference.

Nixon also once said, "The press is the enemy."

[Vrede too]

We can hope that 45 will end the same as Nixon ...

Yeah, get rid of Pence first. Ford wasn't great, but he wasn't evil.

[billy.pilgrim]

We can hope that 45 will end the same as Nixon ...

Yeah, get rid of Pence first. Ford wasn't great, but he wasn't evil.

I have always felt that things would be different if he had gone to prison. maybe we would not have had the oil servicing wars.

[Vrede too]

Could be, idk. Otoh, we would have had to suffer for years through the trial and appeals. I can't remember what I thought of the pardon at the time - I probably opposed it - but in hindsight I'm satisfied with Nixon's humiliation and resignation.

[bannination]

Let's admire the fun that was today....

It is so pathetic that the Dems have still not approved my full Cabinet.
We should start an immediate investigation into @SenSchumer and his ties to Russia and Putin. A total hypocrite!
We must fix our education system for our kids to Make America Great Again. Wonderful day at Saint Andrew in Orlando.
I hearby demand a second investigation, after Schumer, of Pelosi for her close ties to Russia, and lying about it.
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!


Wow

[Vrede too]

"hearby (sic)" - He's right, we must fix our education system.

Have Russia and Putin aided Schumer and Pelosi's campaigns?

Anyhow, looks like he's already rejected the maturity some say he displayed at the speech to Congress, anyone surprised?

[O Really]

ote]


Nixon was smarter than trump

Indeed. Republican Nixon, among other things, ended the military draft opened diplomatic relations with China, initiated détente and the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty with the Soviets. To combat inflation, he issued an Executive Order implementing wage and price controls. He enforced desegregation of Southern schools and established the Environmental Protection Agency. Even getting extra credit for being a crook and calling the media his enemy, Nixon couldn't get within two counties of the Republican Convention now.

[Vrede too]

Let's admire the fun that was today....

... We must fix our education system for our kids to Make America Great Again....
I hearby demand ....
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

Wow

"hearby (sic)" - He's right, we must fix our education system....

It took Donald Trump three tries to spell 'hereby' correctly on Twitter

Spelling is hard ...

In between his spelling corrections, Trump took a moment to tweet about the importance of fixing the American education system.

[billy.pilgrim]

Let's admire the fun that was today....

... We must fix our education system for our kids to Make America Great Again....
I hearby demand ....
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

Wow

"hearby (sic)" - He's right, we must fix our education system....

It took Donald Trump three tries to spell 'hereby' correctly on Twitter

Spelling is hard ...

In between his spelling corrections, Trump took a moment to tweet about the importance of fixing the American education system.

I don't understand why he is allowed to delete his tweets. Maybe his private tweets, but he deletes the ones that are the property of the US citizens

[billy.pilgrim]

"Agreed, JTA, but then using the military widow to promote an easily disproved lie about a political opponent takes it to a whole new level."

"Yeah I agree. I feel for that woman that lost her husband, but I don't think it's a slight against her to be suspicious of Trump's intentions to have her at his speech, and it was blatantly obvious they were using her as a political prop...."

"Given that inviting guests to score political points is so pervasive and that it would have been seen as a dis to not invite the widow from President* Trump's first failed military operation, I don't really have a problem with her presence and his acknowledgement, at least not a problem that's unique to him or one that will ever be fixed."

Hmmm .... sounds familiar ....


Khizr Khan, the father of a soldier killed in Iraq, delivered an emotional speech to the Democratic National Convention on Thursday, saying to Donald Trump: "You have sacrificed nothing."

Khizr Khan spoke directly to Trump, who has proposed banning Muslim immigrants from entering the country.

Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton has spoken of Khan's son on the campaign trail, telling the family's story. The Khans moved from the United Arab Emirates to Boston in the 1980s. The crowd in Philadelphia roared with approval as Khan continued, telling Trump to visit the graves of soldiers of "all faiths, genders and ethnicities" in Arlington National Cemetery.....

"Roars of approval", anyone?

Very different circumstances

[O Really]

Very different circumstances

One was invited to speak; one was held up for show. Nothing different there.

[Vrede too]

I don't understand why he is allowed to delete his tweets. Maybe his private tweets, but he deletes the ones that are the property of the US citizens

banni says that he's exclusively using his personal Android. Are some of his tweets from "POTUS" or whatever, or are they all from his longstanding personal account?

[Vrede too]

Very different circumstances

One was invited to speak; one was held up for show. Nothing different there.

... until Kellyanne Conway exploited the SEAL's widow to pass on a complete lie about Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

Also, we don't know whether the SEAL's widow endorses President* Trump or not. She may just feel that having her husband's sacrifice recognized by the whichever POTUS is the right thing to do.

[bannination]

I don't understand why he is allowed to delete his tweets. Maybe his private tweets, but he deletes the ones that are the property of the US citizens

banni says that he's exclusively using his personal Android. Are some of his tweets from "POTUS" or whatever, or are they all from his longstanding personal account?

The only one I'm monitoring is his personal account.

If anyone wants to look at the full metadata for whatever his latest tweet is you can go here -- URL subject to change because it's not finished. homebackup/trumptweet

[O Really]

I don't understand why he is allowed to delete his tweets. Maybe his private tweets, but he deletes the ones that are the property of the US citizens

banni says that he's exclusively using his personal Android. Are some of his tweets from "POTUS" or whatever, or are they all from his longstanding personal account?

I don't know all the technicalities, but it would seem when you're President*, it would be difficult to separate personal from official no matter the platform. If Trump tweets that he's having dinner with Jabba the Hutt, it sounds personal. But maybe it's really an interview for Mr. Hutt to be Chief Ethics Advisor, which would be official. If he criticizes the NYT, it is (obviously) personal, but he's also in a position to affect their business as President*, and does so. I think his "personal" Twitter use will eventually be a bigger issue and add to his misery. We can hope.