I think it did concerning the Vietnam War, but I think we've gone to far for violent imagery to make a difference.Vrede too wrote: ↑Mon May 08, 2023 9:39 pmWhat do y'all think?Twitter Criticized for Allowing Texas Shooting Images to Spread
... Like other social media companies, Twitter has once again found itself in a position akin to that of traditional newspaper editors, who wrestle with difficult decisions about how much to show their audiences. Though newspapers and magazines generally spare their readers from truly graphic images, they have made some exceptions, as Jet magazine did in 1955 when it published open-casket images of Emmett Till, a 14-year-old Black boy who was beaten to death in Mississippi, to illustrate the horrors of the Jim Crow-era South....
Graphic content was never completely banned by Twitter, even before Musk took over. The platform, for instance, has allowed images of people killed or wounded in the war in Ukraine, arguing that they are newsworthy and informative. The company sometimes places warning labels or pop-ups on sensitive content, requiring that users opt in to see the imagery.
While many users clearly spread the images of the massacre, including of the dead attacker, for shock value, others retweeted them to underscore the horrors of gun violence. “The N.R.A.’s America,” one tweet read. “This isn’t going away,” said another.
Claire Wardle, the co-founder of the Information Futures Lab at Brown University, said in an interview that tech companies must balance their desire to protect their users with the responsibility to preserve newsworthy or otherwise important images — even those that are uncomfortable to look at. She cited as precedent the decision to publish a Vietnam War image of Kim Phuc Phan Thi, who became known as “Napalm Girl” after a photo of her suffering following a napalm strike circulated around the world....
YAHOO POLL
Should Twitter limit the spread of pictures of mass shooting victims?
Yes 47%
No 45%
Unsure 8%
Will graphic imagery help put the brakes on our escalating racial and gun violence? Gun control is a pipe dream and nothing else seems to be working.
Does it make a difference if some creeps get a thrill out of it?
Was I wrong for sharing video of the dead Allen, TX shooter? The victims' images were already hard to find.
Was I wrong for sharing video of the Brownsville, TX car crash and outcome?
Was Twitter wrong for allowing this imagery to be temporarily available?
Mass Shootings
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Re: Mass Shootings
Trump: “We had the safest border in the history of our country - or at least recorded history. I guess maybe a thousand years ago it was even better.”
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Re: Mass Shootings
No, show every graphic detail.Vrede too wrote: ↑Mon May 08, 2023 9:39 pm
What do y'all think?
Will graphic imagery help put the brakes on our escalating racial and gun violence? Gun control is a pipe dream and nothing else seems to be working.
Does it make a difference if some creeps get a thrill out of it?
Was I wrong for sharing video of the dead Allen, TX shooter? The victims' images were already hard to find.
Was I wrong for sharing video of the Brownsville, TX car crash and outcome?
Was Twitter wrong for allowing this imagery to be temporarily available?
It's the best way to confront the ammosexuals and wake this nation the fuck up.
I posted the pics and videos on LNF, none of the fetish crowd commented.
Eamus Catuli~AC 000000 000101 010202 020303 010304 020405....Ahhhh, forget it, it's gonna be a while.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Show the little kids with their entire bodies blown up and keep pounding on the difference in damage of AR-15 vs. a 9mm. A 9mm shot is survivable most everywhere outside of heart/brain; An AR-15 shot is designed to be so internally destructive that it's hard to survive even one shot because of the damage.
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Re: Mass Shootings
I tend to fall on the side of not showing video of the victims or the shooter only because of the possibility that doing so may actually encourage or prod another nutjob into doing the same thing. I figure most would recoil at the sight of such carnage, but at the same time I feel there are some who would actually be attracted to it or even be envious of it.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Those that are attracted to it are probably seeking it out anyways and most probably don't need prodding.neoplacebo wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 8:35 amI tend to fall on the side of not showing video of the victims or the shooter only because of the possibility that doing so may actually encourage or prod another nutjob into doing the same thing. I figure most would recoil at the sight of such carnage, but at the same time I feel there are some who would actually be attracted to it or even be envious of it.
Eamus Catuli~AC 000000 000101 010202 020303 010304 020405....Ahhhh, forget it, it's gonna be a while.
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Re: Mass Shootings
This is a good point that you do not hear brought up very often.O Really wrote: ↑Mon May 08, 2023 10:47 pmShow the little kids with their entire bodies blown up and keep pounding on the difference in damage of AR-15 vs. a 9mm. A 9mm shot is survivable most everywhere outside of heart/brain; An AR-15 shot is designed to be so internally destructive that it's hard to survive even one shot because of the damage.
I paid my fees to hip-hop college, sucka!
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Re: Mass Shootings
Looks like the Texas mall shooter frequented 4chan. I am not surprised. The internet has definitely radicalized a lot of people. A lot of shooters frequently visited sites like 4chan and 8chan. A lot of those fringe internet subcultures are cesspools of incels and white supremacist beliefs.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/te ... -rcna83336
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/te ... -rcna83336
I paid my fees to hip-hop college, sucka!
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Re: Mass Shootings
It's the only substantive point that matters in why AR-15 type rifles should be severely restricted. The gun people talk about the "scary shape" or say it's just another look for a sporting firearm or play little linguistic games over labels, but there are significant differences in the damage caused.Whack9 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 10:06 amThis is a good point that you do not hear brought up very often.O Really wrote: ↑Mon May 08, 2023 10:47 pmShow the little kids with their entire bodies blown up and keep pounding on the difference in damage of AR-15 vs. a 9mm. A 9mm shot is survivable most everywhere outside of heart/brain; An AR-15 shot is designed to be so internally destructive that it's hard to survive even one shot because of the damage.
Five-year old article here, and still gets little traction in the efforts to reduce gun killings.The 9mm handgun is generally regarded as an effective weapon; its bullet travels at 1,200 feet per second and delivers a kinetic energy of 400 foot pounds. By comparison, the standard AR-15 bullet travels at 3,251 feet per second and delivers 1300 foot pounds.
Tissue destruction of the AR-15 is further enhanced by cavitation, which is the destruction of tissue beyond the direct pathway of the bullet; this occurs with high velocity bullets because their kinetic energies are over 2,500 foot pounds
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/p ... ncna848346
As the gun people say, ban the AR-15's and shooters will use something else. Sure, but they won't be nearly as effective at killing. Even if you kept the shooting events at the same number but reduced the resultant deaths by half, wouldn't it be a major improvement?
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Re: Mass Shootings
Whack9 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 10:08 amLooks like the Texas mall shooter frequented 4chan. I am not surprised. The internet has definitely radicalized a lot of people. A lot of shooters frequently visited sites like 4chan and 8chan. A lot of those fringe internet subcultures are cesspools of incels and white supremacist beliefs.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/te ... -rcna83336
Nick Fuentes, where have we heard that name before? Oh, that's right:... A social media page appearing to belong to a gunman who killed eight people at a Dallas-area outlet mall had shared extremist beliefs with rants against Jews, women and racial minorities posted since September, as well as posts about struggling with mental health.
Mauricio Garcia, 33, maintained a profile on the Russian social networking platform OK.ru, including posts referring to extremist online forums, such as 4chan, and content from white nationalists, including Nick Fuentes, an antisemitic white nationalist provocateur....
viewtopic.php?p=140071#p140071
viewtopic.php?p=179709#p179709
viewtopic.php?p=177140#p177140Vrede too wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 9:26 pm... Yep, a terrorist in the hen house. This is the payoff for her support for SINO McCarthy. EmptyG will now be able to funnel insider info to her white supremacist and QAnon buddies. It's even worse:Marjorie Taylor Greene, Paul Gosar land Oversight committee assignments after removal by Democrats
... Greene and Gosar went on to appear at a conference hosted by white nationalist Nick Fuentes in early 2022, prompting widespread condemnation from leaders in both parties....
https://uproxx.com/viral/kanye-west-tru ... dent-2024/
TX mall shooter, EmptyG, Gosar, Kanye and TRE45QN - birds of a feather.... Ye’s Trump story wasn’t the only shocking part of his Mar-a-Lago jaunt. In the airport, Ye was spotted walking with white nationalist incel anti-Semite twerp Nick Fuentes. Sources, including Ye, say Fuentes joined him at his dinner with Trump, who reportedly said he was “really impressed” with the 24-year-old Holocaust denier who thinks women should lose the right to vote. Sounds like everyone’s learned the right lessons after Trump caused the GOP’s “red wave” to fail.
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Re: Mass Shootings
IMO the potential mass murderers get all the inspiration they need from existing mass murderers and other haters. Whack9's link:neoplacebo wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 8:35 amI tend to fall on the side of not showing video of the victims or the shooter only because of the possibility that doing so may actually encourage or prod another nutjob into doing the same thing. I figure most would recoil at the sight of such carnage, but at the same time I feel there are some who would actually be attracted to it or even be envious of it.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/te ... -rcna83336
These assholes' imaginations are already rich enough. I think what's missing is the public seeing the true horror of what American ammosexuality has wrought. Maybe this will spur it to effective action. As O Really implies with his AR-15 posts it is gunhuggers and gun makers that most want this imagery kept secret.... Many of his posts referred to his mental health. In his final post, he lamented what his family might say and wrote that no psychologist would have been able to fix him.
In another post, he made disturbing comments about what makes a mass shooting "important" and praised a person who opened fire at a private Christian school in Nashville, Tennessee, this year, killing six people, including three children....
He also posted photos of a flak vest emblazoned with patches, one of them with the initialism for "Right Wing Death Squad," a popular meme among far-right extremist groups. Another post included a series of shirtless pictures with visible white power tattoos, including SS lightning bolts and a swastika....
Many of Garcia's other posts were misogynistic, railing against women and parroting language used in incel, or involuntary celibate, communications. In the posts, Garcia referred to specific incel forums and valorized a gunman whose 2014 mass murder spree in Isla Vista, California, is celebrated in incel communities....
The shooting in Allen came barely a week after a man fatally shot five people in Cleveland, Texas, north of Houston, after a neighbor asked him to stop firing his weapon while a baby slept.
There have also been seven mass shootings in Texas since the elementary school massacre in Uvalde a year ago, in which 21 people were killed, according to a database maintained by The Associated Press and USA Today in partnership with Northeastern University. This year has had an average of about one mass killing a week, the AP reported....
Allen, about 25 miles north of downtown Dallas and with a population of about 105,000, is among the Dallas-Fort Worth area's diverse suburbs.
The community also is connected to another of Texas' recent mass shootings. A man lived there in 2019 before he posted a racist screed online that warned of a "Hispanic invasion" and drove to El Paso, where he opened fire at a Walmart, killing 23 people. The 24-year-old gunman pleaded guilty to federal hate crime and weapons charges in February.
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Re: Mass Shootings
https://www.yahoo.com/news/texas-mall-s ... 23267.html
The Texas mall shooting left a 6-year-old as the sole survivor of his family.
A GoFundMe has raised more than $450,000 $1,458,950 to support him.
Mon, May 8, 2023 at 5:08 PM EDT
$1M+ added in less than a day, wow.
The Texas mall shooting left a 6-year-old as the sole survivor of his family.
A GoFundMe has raised more than $450,000 $1,458,950 to support him.
Mon, May 8, 2023 at 5:08 PM EDT
$1M+ added in less than a day, wow.
... The fundraiser went live Monday afternoon, quickly gaining traction and surpassing its $50,000 goal....
... One survivor said a store employee hid them and 12 others in a bathroom closet during the shooting, saving their lives.
The survivor also said they later saw the store employee's dead body while being evacuated from the scene.
- Vrede too
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Re: Mass Shootings
1 week later, now up to $1,871,050 raised.
After school shooting, Tennessee governor signs bill to shield gun firms further against lawsuits
Thank god for Tennessee Gov. Bill Lee and the Tennessee Leg. My immediate concern in the wake of the The Covenant School shooting in Nashville was for the real victims, the merchants of death.
Unscientific YAHOO POLL
Should it be easier to sue gun makers and sellers over mass shootings?
Yes 64% including me
No 33%
Unsure 3%
2,069 votes
After school shooting, Tennessee governor signs bill to shield gun firms further against lawsuits
Thank god for Tennessee Gov. Bill Lee and the Tennessee Leg. My immediate concern in the wake of the The Covenant School shooting in Nashville was for the real victims, the merchants of death.
Unscientific YAHOO POLL
Should it be easier to sue gun makers and sellers over mass shootings?
Yes 64% including me
No 33%
Unsure 3%
2,069 votes
Great minds . . .Should our government pass laws to protect private companies from lawsuits from citizens? They should pass laws protecting citizens from companies. But when donors bribe politicians, donors win.
As a Democrat, I have to admit that it is extremely unfair to say Republicans refuse to pass any legislation to impact gun crime in this nation. That just isn't true. This here is a perfect example. After almost every mass shooting, Republicans pass some form of legislation to protect gun manufacturers, gun dealers or easier access to guns. So to say they do nothing is an untrue statement.
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Re: Mass Shootings
On now:
1 hour broadcast, 44 minutes streaming.
StreamingVice Special Report
Mass Shooting Nation
Season 1, Episode 22 • New
11:00 PM ON VICE TV • Stereo • CC
1 hour broadcast, 44 minutes streaming.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Texas, again:Whack9 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 10:08 amLooks like the Texas mall shooter frequented 4chan. I am not surprised. The internet has definitely radicalized a lot of people. A lot of shooters frequently visited sites like 4chan and 8chan. A lot of those fringe internet subcultures are cesspools of incels and white supremacist beliefs.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/te ... -rcna83336
Ammosexuals love to deflect by screeching, "Mental health!" but they neglect to mention that it's their con pols who have slashed mental health funding and that only America heavily arms its mentally ill.East Texas teenager charged with murder in killings of parents and siblings
... The officers persuaded Olalde to surrender and then found the bodies of his parents, Reuben Olalde and Aida Garcia, older sister Lisbet Olalde and younger brother Oliver Olalde in a bathroom....
The co-worker told police that Olalde said “he had killed his family because they were cannibals, and they were going to eat him,” the affidavit states.
... As of May 24, there have been at least 25 mass killing incidents in the U.S. so far in 2023, leaving at least 127 people dead, not including perpetrators who died, according to a database maintained by The Associated Press and USA Today in partnership with Northeastern University. That puts the country on a faster pace for mass killing incidents than in any other year since at least 2006, according to the database, which defines a mass killing as an incident in which four or more people are killed, not including the perpetrator, within a 24-hour period.
There have been at least 556 incidents in all since 2006 in the U.S., according to the database, leaving at least 2,892 people dead.
Family mass killings — in which four or more people were killed, not including the perpetrator — have also been an all-too-common tragedy across the country. They’ve happened nearly every 3 1/2 weeks for the last two decades on average, according to the database.
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Re: Mass Shootings
They have and we won't. Though Dem, NM is legally and culturally gun happy.At least 3 dead and 5 injured in shooting in New Mexico resort town during motorcycle rally
At least three people were killed and five others were injured in a shooting Saturday during a popular motorcycle rally at a New Mexico resort town, according to officials....
The resort town of 675, northeast of Taos in a range at the southern end of the Rocky Mountains, was expecting nearly 30,000 people over the weekend as part of the 41st annual Red River Memorial Motorcycle Rally....
In a joint statement, New Mexico Senators Martin Heinrich and Ben Ray Luján, and Representatives Teresa Leger Fernández, Melanie Stansbury and Gabe Vasquez, said they are "heartsick" over the shooting, adding that it "desecrated a decades-old, cherished community gathering."
The politicians also called for greater action to prevent gun violence, noting that the Red River shooting came less than two weeks after an 18-year-old gunman fatally shot three elderly women and wounded two police officers in Farmington, a city 230 miles west of Red River.
"We cannot let these events become normal," they said. "We must do more to prevent gun violence.”
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Re: Mass Shootings
A shooting between rival gangs at a motorcycle rally? I'm shocked - shocked I say!
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Re: Mass Shootings
I've never attended one, but I think these huge motorcycle rallies discourage the gangs and are generally pretty peaceful. For example, this is the 41st annual Red River Memorial Motorcycle Rally. Not sure if there will be a 42nd.
In 2000 the Hells Angels held a gathering in Missoula. They were perfectly well behaved, but when locals went downtown to check out the bikes there was a police riot, partly due to the scores of cops unnecessarily imported from out of town and even out of state.
KPAX Archive: 2000 Hells Angels Missoula riots
I was not at the first police riot, but I was arrested the next day at the second police riot when we dared to peacefully march against the police violence the night before. My "crime" was calmly telling a Utah cop he wasn't welcome in my town while I was legally standing on the sidewalk.
Chicago Tribune: PROTESTERS VENT ANGER ON COPS AT HELLS ANGELS MEET
Law enforcement abuses continued long afterwards:
Court throws out subpoena of student journalist’s video
1312.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Not necessarily by choice/intent, but I've been to Daytona Bike Week twice and Sturges once. As far as I know, they aren't usually bothered by real gang members. But if there is more than one gang there I'm not surprised if there's violence.
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Re: Mass Shootings
I found this:
In my admittedly limited personal experience, unrelated to things I've read or seen on TV, biker gangs are harmless while police are very dangerous.Hell’s Fallout
by KEN PICARD
Missoula Independent 8/3/2000
Like the WTO protests, Missoula’s police riots will leave scars
By now the comparisons of the Hell's Angels Missoula ride to the Seattle World Trade Organization protests of 1999 are coming at us faster than automatic gunfire: Protestors taking to the streets in unexpected numbers, squads of police facing off with them in riot gear, activists unable or unwilling to obey orders to disperse, peaceful citizens subjected to pepper spray and physical attack, reports of civil disobedience, arbitrary arrests, police intimidation, excessive use of force, and hard questions being posed in the aftermath.
Like any act of civil unrest, the truth remains shrouded in the haze of conflicting eyewitness accounts and perceptions clouded by anger, fear and professional agenda. What is known is that last Saturday night, following an 8 p.m. peaceful protest at City Hall by about 150 Missoula residents against what they considered to be an excessive and wasteful police presence, the marchers spilled onto North Higgins Avenue and were met with police resistance at the intersection of Higgins and Main Street. Nearly four dozen arrests ensued, involving many citizens who say they were acting peacefully and nonviolently, or were simply caught in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Later that night, following the departure of the Hell’s Angels, dozens more arrests occurred as the police conducted what Police Chief Pete Lawrenson describes as a “measured, tactical response” to dangerous and illegal activities in the Front Street area, necessary, he says, to answer a 911 call of an injured woman down.
As the smoke clears, comparisons to Seattle cannot sit well with Lawrenson who, like former Seattle Police Chief Norm Stamper (who resigned over his mismanagement of that ordeal), spent much of the last six months preparing for this event and trying to foresee every eventuality, only to have it blow up in his face in a way no one imagined.
The irony is that Lawrenson himself predicted an event like this eight months ago. During a meeting last November with about a dozen downtown tavern owners, Lawrenson told them, “When police are responding into the area, we’re threatened almost on a nightly basis. We’re primed to have some sort of a civil disobedience take place in the downtown area … and the potential for injury and property damage is just extreme.”
Thankfully, the injuries and property damage were not extreme, and technically speaking, Lawrenson is correct when he says, “We accomplished our mission with total and complete success. Riding in Missoula, the Hell’s Angels recognized that law enforcement had the resources, the training and the capability to appropriately manage them.” In other words, no serious injuries or arrests of Hell’s Angels occurred all week.
Then again, you can kill a mosquito on your knee with a hammer, though you have to ask yourself if the bruise you’ll get is worth the bite you save. Clearly, Incident Command never took into account the deep Libertarian streak that runs through this community. Simply put, Montanans don’t take kindly to strong-arm police tactics, even if they’re meant to protect us.
As news accounts and public discourse unfold in the coming weeks, we are likely to see the same blurring of facts as occurred in Seattle; namely, the assumption that all the police officers were out of control and all the people arrested or maced were disorderly, riotous and had it coming.
Numerous eyewitness accounts say that while some of the cops acted responsibly, others clearly did not. For example, all Missoula officers are required to wear nametags while on duty, but at least three independent eyewitnesses saw Utah officers without nametags. Citations were issued without officers giving their names or badge numbers, and some people taken into custody say they were never read their rights or told the nature of their offense.
Likewise, there were plenty of drunk and disorderly people who ignored police orders to disperse, walked around with open containers and climbed on awnings. Then again, there were also people like Briel Johnson who says, “I watched as people I knew were thrown off their bikes, put on the ground, handcuffed and arrested merely for the sole purpose of riding their bicycles on the street.”
Undoubtedly, Lawrenson is in a treacherous spot. Even the slightest intimation of police miscalculation can ensnare him in a legal and political bear trap. But when he makes statements like, “We have reason to believe in the law enforcement community that there were people who may belong to organizations that have agendas requiring civil disobedience,” he is not merely deflecting blame. He is dismissing outright the valid concerns of Missoula citizens.
As Lawrence Turk, an arrested protestor puts it, “We are not for the Hell’s Angels or against the police, who we know have a difficult job. Instead, we’re merely average citizens who love our Constitution.”
The visible scars of last weekend’s mayhem are obvious: The bruises on the wrists of Su Gregerson and Justin Lawrence caused by handcuffs locked too tight. The white rocks of the Mount Jumbo “L” rearranged into the rhetorical “Law?” The peace sign on Waterworks Hill, repainted into a swastika by someone making a bold statement about police states.
Those scars will fade. What will take longer to heal, however, are the psychological scars inflicted upon a community whose peace and quiet was disturbed less by the raspy growl of Harleys and the smell of burning rubber than by the invasion of out-of-state surveillance helicopters, the sting of pepper spray and the fear and anger induced by aggressive police tactics. Those are wounds Missoulians are not accustomed to, the wounds inflicted when people suspect that their police force is no longer their own.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Maybe in the limited context of their participation in a big bike rally the biker gangs may generally behave unless provoked. But I don't think you'd get much agreement that they are by any definition harmless.