Coronavirus

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Vrede too
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Re: Coronavirus

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O Really wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 10:46 am
Drop LA and California looks lots better, and I'm pretty sure WA would take the opportunity to report without including Seattle. Of course densely populated areas would be expected to have more cases. More opportunities for close contact, and more people total....
Race and class appear to be risk factors for death in the US, too, and we mostly concentrate our nonwhites and poor in cities.

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Re: Coronavirus

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Vrede too wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 10:50 am
O Really wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 10:46 am
Drop LA and California looks lots better, and I'm pretty sure WA would take the opportunity to report without including Seattle. Of course densely populated areas would be expected to have more cases. More opportunities for close contact, and more people total....
Race and class appear to be risk factors for death in the US, too, and we mostly concentrate our nonwhites and poor in cities.
Well, this gives me hope in spite of the claim that trump says he gets tested weekly. I will keep my fingers crossed anyway since trump is not exactly white and definitely has no class. With any luck he will contract an acute case and inject some Formula 409 to treat himself.

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Re: Coronavirus

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Skocking.

Eamus Catuli~AC 000000 000101 010202 020303 010304 020405....Ahhhh, forget it, it's gonna be a while.

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Re: Coronavirus

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Vrede too wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 9:49 am
Ummm, the “Responses from all states” are at the link for the second survey. You fail initiative and comprehension, again.

As quoted above, ALL that I ever said about the governors was a guess as to whether their own populations perceived them as being relatively “poor ones” or “good ones”. This is what sent you into a raging tantrum. I was correct as proved by the 2nd survey, and you just don't have the balls to admit it.

As I’ve said all along and you cower from, how a state is doing is dependent on many factors, with gubernatorial action being just one of them. This has just been your wussy deflection from what I did post about all along.

If you want to dismiss the opinions of your fellow Floridians as being “some idiotic popularity contest,” so be it. Who else should we look to for assessing how your new hero, DeSantis, is doing? Seems to me that they should know better than anyone, and are equally competent to make this judgement as you are.

Then, that “idiotic popularity contest” will certainly matter in Nov, with Florida’s electoral votes possibly deciding the presidency. Haven’t you heard?
billy.pilgrim wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 9:18 am
... Take away the Miami area and the rest of Florida is doing better than most states....
:confusion-scratchheadblue: :confusion-scratchheadblue: :confusion-scratchheadblue: Take away the Detroit area and I'll bet that MI is looking much better.
True.

And neither has anything to do with any governor’s popularity in your poll, or Michigan would be in better shape overall than Florida.
Trump: “We had the safest border in the history of our country - or at least recorded history. I guess maybe a thousand years ago it was even better.”

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Vrede too
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Re: Coronavirus

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billy.pilgrim wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 3:32 pm
True.

And neither has anything to do with any governor’s popularity in your poll, or Michigan would be in better shape overall than Florida.
Folks can endlessly argue about whether a governor’s approval for their CV-19 response is warranted or not, in our case with you defending DeSantis and me attacking him, or you arguing with 53% OF Floridians. However, that is not what you threw a fit over. Rather, as the sole quote above shows, all I did is guess whether the people of different states would be relatively approving or not. This sent you completely over the edge, and now that we have proof that I was 100% correct you can't find the spine to admit that I was right. Sad.

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Vrede too
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Re: Coronavirus

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GoCubsGo wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 2:14 pm
Skocking.
NYT non-subscribers: I find that if I exit NYT and clear my cookies I can read one article for free.
She Predicted the Coronavirus. What Does She Foresee Next?
Laurie Garrett, the prophet of this pandemic, expects years of death and “collective rage.”


I told Laurie Garrett that she might as well change her name to Cassandra. Everyone is calling her that anyway.

She and I were Zooming — that’s a verb now, right? — and she pulled out a 2017 book, “Warnings: Finding Cassandras to Stop Catastrophes.” It notes that Garrett, a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, was prescient not only about the impact of H.I.V. but also about the emergence and global spread of more contagious pathogens.

“I’m a double Cassandra,” Garrett said.

She’s also prominently mentioned in a recent Vanity Fair article by David Ewing Duncan about “the Coronavirus Cassandras.”

Cassandra, of course, was the prophetess of Greek mythology who was doomed to issue unheeded warnings. What Garrett has been warning most direly about — in her 1994 best seller, “The Coming Plague,” and in subsequent books and speeches, including TED Talks — is a pandemic like the current one.

She saw it coming. So a big part of what I wanted to ask her about was what she sees coming next. Steady yourself. Her crystal ball is dark....

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Re: Coronavirus

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Vrede too wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 3:59 pm
GoCubsGo wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 2:14 pm
Skocking.
NYT non-subscribers: I find that if I exit NYT and clear my cookies I can read one article for free.
She Predicted the Coronavirus. What Does She Foresee Next?
Laurie Garrett, the prophet of this pandemic, expects years of death and “collective rage.”


I told Laurie Garrett that she might as well change her name to Cassandra. Everyone is calling her that anyway.

She and I were Zooming — that’s a verb now, right? — and she pulled out a 2017 book, “Warnings: Finding Cassandras to Stop Catastrophes.” It notes that Garrett, a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, was prescient not only about the impact of H.I.V. but also about the emergence and global spread of more contagious pathogens.

“I’m a double Cassandra,” Garrett said.

She’s also prominently mentioned in a recent Vanity Fair article by David Ewing Duncan about “the Coronavirus Cassandras.”

Cassandra, of course, was the prophetess of Greek mythology who was doomed to issue unheeded warnings. What Garrett has been warning most direly about — in her 1994 best seller, “The Coming Plague,” and in subsequent books and speeches, including TED Talks — is a pandemic like the current one.

She saw it coming. So a big part of what I wanted to ask her about was what she sees coming next. Steady yourself. Her crystal ball is dark....
Also browsing in private porn tab will get you a couple of free views.
Eamus Catuli~AC 000000 000101 010202 020303 010304 020405....Ahhhh, forget it, it's gonna be a while.

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GoCubsGo
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Re: Coronavirus

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I know it's crazy to post and will fall on deaf ears, but I wonder if these people are aware if they are hospitalized they will be all alone. No visitors, and if they are critical and go on a ventilator there will be no one to hold their hand.

Fox-Loving Parents Are Driving Coronavirus-Paranoid Kids Insane
Eamus Catuli~AC 000000 000101 010202 020303 010304 020405....Ahhhh, forget it, it's gonna be a while.

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Vrede too
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Re: Coronavirus

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Vrede too wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 9:49 am
Ummm, the “Responses from all states” are at the link for the second survey. You fail initiative and comprehension, again.

As quoted above, ALL that I ever said about the governors was a guess as to whether their own populations perceived them as being relatively “poor ones” or “good ones”. This is what sent you into a raging tantrum. I was correct as proved by the 2nd survey, and you just don't have the balls to admit it.

As I’ve said all along and you cower from, how a state is doing is dependent on many factors, with gubernatorial action being just one of them. This has just been your wussy deflection from what I did post about all along.

If you want to dismiss the opinions of your fellow Floridians as being “some idiotic popularity contest,” so be it. Who else should we look to for assessing how your new hero, DeSantis, is doing? Seems to me that they should know better than anyone, and are equally competent to make this judgement as you are.

Then, that “idiotic popularity contest” will certainly matter in Nov, with Florida’s electoral votes possibly deciding the presidency. Haven’t you heard? ...
Sun, humidity and heat, like in FL, MAY help limit CV-19, but they're not sufficient factors.

The COVID-19 Riddle: Why Does the Virus Wallop Some Places and Spare Others?

Summary: It's still a riddle.

I'm not the only one to notice the DeSantis flop.
How the coronavirus undid Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis

There was the time Gov. Ron DeSantis showed up at a coronavirus press conference in a solitary rubber glove, proceeding to repeatedly touch his face with the other, ungloved hand. And there was the time he went through heroic struggles in trying to put on a respirator [sic, mask], its straps providing perhaps more of a challenge than they should have.

There was the time he said professional wrestling was an essential business, the time he blamed New Yorkers for the pandemic, the time he tried to stop cruise ships sick with COVID-19, the lung disease caused by the coronavirus, “dumped” on Florida’s shores.

Above all, there were confusing messages about what people should and should not do in response to the coronavirus.

Some people took the conflicting messages to mean that they should keep doing what they had been doing all along. Many went to beaches, where photographers were waiting. The images of crowded sands quickly went viral, and so now there was a Twitter hashtag to shame people flouting social distancing rules: #FloridaMorons....

Two years and two months later, DeSantis is not drawing much praise from anyone. Of the 15 governors whose approval ratings were recently tracked by polling site FiveThirtyEight, DeSantis was last. He was also the only governor of those 15 to see his popularity decrease because of the coronavirus. DeSantis’s approval rating dropped 7 percentage points, while California Gov. Gavin Newsom’s rose by 41 points.

And that was before DeSantis moved hastily to reopen beaches and other parts of Florida, an effort that appeared to be guided less by scientific thinking than a desire to please the White House, where the governor’s political benefactor resides. And it was before he was criticized for calling Florida “God’s waiting room,” a reference to the state’s elderly population that struck many as crass in the midst of a pandemic.

Florida has so far avoided the epidemiological disaster some worried was coming, but that appears to have happened despite DeSantis, not because of him. In fact, a 50-state survey by researchers at Northeastern, Harvard and Rutgers found that only 60 percent of Floridians approved of his pandemic response, 12 points below the national average.

Even so, DeSantis has moved quickly to deem the virus defeated. Last Wednesday, he announced that the state would begin partially reopening by the start of the following week. Deaths continue to climb in the state, but it is not exactly clear to what degree. Late last month, DeSantis’s administration told coroners to stop publishing coronavirus death data, making it impossible to know how many lives have been lost.

“We’ve got deaths stacking up in South Florida like crazy,” says Rick Wilson, a Republican consultant. The virus has killed 750 people in the three counties at the state’s southern tip (Broward, Miami-Dade and Palm Beach), which is three times more than have died from COVID-19 in all of South Korea. South Florida is exempt from the initial stage of DeSantis’s reopening plan, which begins on Monday.

Overall, the state has only tested 1.8 percent of its 22 million residents, according to a Miami Herald analysis. That means the state is declaring victory with almost no sense of enemy forces.

“It’s like we’re watching a mockumentary of a pandemic movie in Florida,” says Kevin Cate, a Democratic strategist in the state who worked for a Democratic opponent of DeSantis. In a post on Medium, Cate enumerated DeSantis’s many errors, from letting spring break revelers continue to congregate on Florida beaches to touting the malaria drug hydroxychloroquine, which some (the president foremost among them) held out as a potential coronavirus cure.

Cate charged DeSantis with a “disregard for the health of Floridians,” an especially fraught accusation in a state that already has the fourth-highest rate of uninsured individuals in the nation. It is also the state with the second-oldest population, after Maine. Already fragile, Florida has had its vulnerabilities vividly highlighted by DeSantis’s missteps....
Lots of discussion of how he was initially a bipartisan golden boy, then of how his reliance on PINO, unlike other bipartisan governors, was a big part of his undoing.
New troubles loomed. Images of packed beaches were now replaced by another: that of people waiting in seemingly endless lines to apply for unemployment benefits through the state’s Pandemic Unemployment Assistance program, which was to be administered by the state’s employment department.

The unemployment site had been created by DeSantis’s predecessor, Rick Scott, now a member of the U.S. Senate. But its deficiencies were not exactly a secret. An audit performed in 2015 had found many problems with the site, as did a follow-up audit conducted in 2016. DeSantis took no evident steps to correct the problems after taking office.
Opps.
... Much like Trump, he has been impatient to get the pandemic over with. He spent much of April promoting the malaria drug hydroxychloroquine as a potential cure, but when Trump stopped boosting its benefits, so did DeSantis. Hydroxychloroquine has since been shown to be potentially harmful to coronavirus patients.

Then he said that, despite a lack of treatments and vaccines, it was time to reopen the state anyway. Less than two weeks into his lockdown, DeSantis suggested it was time to resume public education. “I don’t think nationwide there’s been a single fatality under 25,” the governor said, an incorrect assertion. His proposal to reopen schools earned a rebuke from Dr. Anthony Fauci, the National Institutes of Health epidemiologist and a prominent member of the president’s coronavirus task force....

Floridians, however, are growing increasingly dissatisfied. A new poll, conducted throughout April, finds that while 69 percent of Americans approve of the job their governors are doing in battling the coronavirus, only 51 percent of DeSantis’s constituents endorse his handling of the pandemic. That puts him in unwelcome company with Kemp, the Georgia governor whose hasty reopening plan earned sharp criticism from Trump himself.

With its 29 Electoral College votes, Florida will be enormously consequential in next fall’s presidential election. Trump knows that, of course. He is a Florida resident himself, having switched his primary residence from his Fifth Avenue tower in Manhattan to his Mar-a-Lago golf resort in Palm Beach. He also knows that if Floridians are angry at DeSantis, they are likely to take that anger out on the Republican Party’s head, potentially handing the crucial state to the presumed Democratic nominee Joe Biden.
:happy-cheerleaderkid: If so, Biden wins the WH.
... Hannity, who acts like a shadow press secretary and chief of staff to Trump, praised DeSantis, who the anchor said took “very aggressive steps right away” to keep Florida safe. “You saved a lot of lives,” Hannity told the embattled governor.
Hmmm, where have I heard that before?
The notion, purveyed eagerly by Hannity, that DeSantis has successfully defeated the coronavirus is false. While the spread of the disease has slowed, little DeSantis has done could be seen as leading to that outcome....
Hmmm, where have I seen that response before?
As for the goodwill DeSantis engendered in his first year, it is gone. Buckhorn, the erstwhile Tampa mayor who praised DeSantis in 2019, is certainly not praising him anymore. “I’ve been disappointed,” Buckhorn told Yahoo News. DeSantis, he worries, is “reverting to what our worst fears were.”

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O Really
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Re: Coronavirus

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I was one who had surprisingly nice things to say about DeSantis early on. Dunno if I'm typical of anyone but myself, but all of that tolerance went away when he had to ask Trump what to do about the virus and then secured himself tightly to Trump's ass.

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Vrede too
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Re: Coronavirus

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O Really wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 1:35 pm
I was one who had surprisingly nice things to say about DeSantis early on. Dunno if I'm typical of anyone but myself, but all of that tolerance went away when he had to ask Trump what to do about the virus and then secured himself tightly to Trump's ass.
You're not alone at all. Bipartisan approval early switching to bipartisan (somewhat) disfavor now is a central theme of the article at the end of the previous page.
How the coronavirus undid Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis

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Re: Coronavirus

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Vrede too wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 3:05 pm
O Really wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 1:35 pm
I was one who had surprisingly nice things to say about DeSantis early on. Dunno if I'm typical of anyone but myself, but all of that tolerance went away when he had to ask Trump what to do about the virus and then secured himself tightly to Trump's ass.
You're not alone at all. Bipartisan approval early switching to bipartisan (somewhat) disfavor now is a central theme of the article at the end of the previous page.
How the coronavirus undid Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis
At great risk of being called a DeSantis fanboy again, I also had something good to say about him very early on, but that was about it. That said, I see all this jumping on Florida to be counter productive.
I too have enjoyed the Florida-man stories - except for its origins in the 2000 elections and the fact that some republican wordsmith started the Flori-duh theme.

DeSantis hasn't done much that I can see. He punted to the counties just as trump punted to the states and like trump, he stepped in when the counties tried to stop crowds in churches. He was terrible.
I did read that he has for several weeks worked on the unemployment disaster left by voldemort. So some credit there.

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/fl ... -14-489110

I'm really not sure about blaming and crediting the various states based on popularity polls is any better than basing your choice of cable news on popularity.

I watched a few minutes of gov. Cuomo yesterday. He explained for NY's virus came from Europe and was more deadly than what hit the west coast. He did a convincing job of explaining why east coast transportation hubs have been hit so hard since we were focused on travel from China.

That includes the Miami area, Orlando and Atlanta. Areas that are experiencing the worst outbreaks.

I just don't see the jumping on Florida or Georgia. Florida is on par with most and fairing better than some. There is a lot more at play here than social distancing. Michigan still has nearly 3 times the deaths per thousand than Florida, but still it wouldn't make much sense to blame the governor, even though she hasn't been effective at enforcement of her measures. There's more going on there - likely it's poverty.

Could be that the media's focus on overall numbers while ignoring population suze is a bit like comparing apples to oranges.

Similarly, I have noticed several reasonable conversations here about what trails are open and where to go for safe recreation, but any hint of a Florida beach being open is off the table.
I agree that several beaches have ignored enforcing social distancing. DeSantis should require them to do so immediately. He hasn't and he sucks for that.
But I went to the beach yesterday and saw only small groups very far apart - Mondays are always slow.

I would love to see enforcement, but I understand that governor Whitmer can't start arresting or ticketing with starting another Bundy type situation without the direction to the governors coming from trump.
Trump: “We had the safest border in the history of our country - or at least recorded history. I guess maybe a thousand years ago it was even better.”

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Re: Coronavirus

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I was never fooled by him and determined without doubt he's a wingnut when I saw his ad (I think it was when he was running for Governor) in which he's showing and telling his toddler daughter how to "build the wall" with her play blocks. I knew right then he was just as full of delusional nonsense as the majority of Republican officials and that he would pursue that path with vigor and blind ignorance.

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Re: Coronavirus

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billy.pilgrim

My opinion ain't worth much. However, the opinion of Floridians means a lot, he does compare very poorly to other governors on the pandemic, including Whitmer, and that will affect the POTUS election in 2020 in both states and the FL governor election in 2022. Floridians are far harsher to DeSantis than you are.

Plus, taking action on the unemployment fiasco in May is a year and a half too late. The article makes the case that he should have known about the mess long before he was elected, and that he did nothing.
neoplacebo wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 6:52 am
I was never fooled by him and determined without doubt he's a wingnut when I saw his ad (I think it was when he was running for Governor) in which he's showing and telling his toddler daughter how to "build the wall" with her play blocks. I knew right then he was just as full of delusional nonsense as the majority of Republican officials and that he would pursue that path with vigor and blind ignorance.
I forgot about that.

viewtopic.php?p=86345#p86345

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Re: Coronavirus

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Vrede too wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 8:39 am
billy.pilgrim

My opinion ain't worth much. However, the opinion of Floridians means a lot, he does compare very poorly to other governors on the pandemic, including Whitmer, and that will affect the POTUS election in 2020 in both states and the FL governor election in 2022. Floridians are far harsher to DeSantis than you are.

Plus, taking action on the unemployment fiasco in May is a year and a half too late. The article makes the case that he should have known about the mess long before he was elected, and that he did nothing.
neoplacebo wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 6:52 am
I was never fooled by him and determined without doubt he's a wingnut when I saw his ad (I think it was when he was running for Governor) in which he's showing and telling his toddler daughter how to "build the wall" with her play blocks. I knew right then he was just as full of delusional nonsense as the majority of Republican officials and that he would pursue that path with vigor and blind ignorance.
I forgot about that.

viewtopic.php?p=86345#p86345
I remember the ad well.

Again, why do you care so much about DeSantis and his trump idiot response?

Feelies don't have much to do with solving this problem, but facts will.

Florida, with all its international connections ranked 18th on 4/13 in number of cases per thousand population. Michigan is #7.

Oh and fox beats msnbc, but it would be stupid to rank them on popularity.

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/111552340

I'm not sure why we aren't seeing more of this type of analysis, rather than following the repug Floriduh narrative used to overturn the 2000 election.
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Re: Coronavirus

Unread post by billy.pilgrim »

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... rates.html

Here's another
Michigan is 7 times higher than Florida, but it's easy to pick on Florida, unless you are interested in discovering anything useful.
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Re: Coronavirus

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billy.pilgrim wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 9:07 am
I remember the ad well.

Again, why do you care so much about DeSantis and his trump idiot response?

As we can see on the previous page, all I did is post a guess as to what Floridians thought relative to other states, one that turned out to be 100% correct with Floridians and each of the other states. You are the one that made a huge deal out of it.

Feelies don't have much to do with solving this problem, but facts will.

Florida, with all its international connections ranked 18th on 4/13 in number of cases per thousand population. Michigan is #7.

As I've said many times and linked, people are doing that kind of analysis, of course. However, it's a fallacy to link outcomes due to many factors exclusively to gubernatorial action.

Oh and fox beats msnbc, but it would be stupid to rank them on popularity.

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/111552340

I'm not sure why we aren't seeing more of this type of analysis, rather than following the repug Floriduh narrative used to overturn the 2000 election.

Idk what that means, but good luck convincing Floridians that their analysis is incorrect and you've got the right way of looking at things. DeSantis would probably appreciate your advice, too.

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Re: Coronavirus

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https://www.statista.com/statistics/110 ... -by-state/

Wow - May 4 - deaths per thousand - no feelies involved

New York 126
New Jersey 89
Connecticut 68
Massachusetts 58
Louisiana 42
Michigan 41
District of Columbia 36
Rhode Island 30
Pennsylvania 22
Illinois 21
Maryland 21
Indiana 19
Delaware 18
Colorado 15
Georgia 11
Washington 11
Mississippi 10
Ohio 9
Nevada 9
Virginia 8
Vermont 8
Minnesota 7
New Mexico 7
Florida 6
Trump: “We had the safest border in the history of our country - or at least recorded history. I guess maybe a thousand years ago it was even better.”

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Re: Coronavirus

Unread post by billy.pilgrim »

Vrede too wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 9:19 am
billy.pilgrim wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 9:07 am
I remember the ad well.

Again, why do you care so much about DeSantis and his trump idiot response?

As we can see on the previous page, all I did is post a guess as to what Floridians thought relative to other states, one that turned out to be 100% correct with Floridians and each of the other states. You are the one that made a huge deal out of it.

Feelies don't have much to do with solving this problem, but facts will.

Florida, with all its international connections ranked 18th on 4/13 in number of cases per thousand population. Michigan is #7.

As I've said many times and linked, people are doing that kind of analysis, of course. However, it's a fallacy to link outcomes due to many factors exclusively to gubernatorial action.

Oh and fox beats msnbc, but it would be stupid to rank them on popularity.

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/111552340

I'm not sure why we aren't seeing more of this type of analysis, rather than following the repug Floriduh narrative used to overturn the 2000 election.

Idk what that means, but good luck convincing Floridians that their analysis is incorrect and you've got the right way of looking at things. DeSantis would probably appreciate your advice, too.
you really think DeSantis would appreciate how I feel about him?

I do hope the voters hold it against him.

As I said, what is the point of jumping on Florida?

Why not focus on states that are having more of a problem. For every one death in Florida, there have been 3.5 in Maryland
Trump: “We had the safest border in the history of our country - or at least recorded history. I guess maybe a thousand years ago it was even better.”

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Re: Coronavirus

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billy.pilgrim wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 9:25 am
... As I said, what is the point of jumping on Florida? ...
Ask your friends and neighbors. I'm merely sharing what they think since it will matter a lot in Nov. MD's electoral votes are not in question. They'll go to Biden no matter how popular Hogan (R) is.

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