Blackwater

[indago]

From The Associated Press 22 October 2014:
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Four former Blackwater security guards were convicted Wednesday in the 2007 shootings of more than 30 Iraqis in Baghdad, an incident that inflamed anti-American sentiment around the globe and was denounced by critics as an illustration of a war gone horribly wrong. The men claimed self-defense, but federal prosecutors argued that they had shown "a grave indifference" to the carnage their actions would cause. All four were ordered immediately to jail.
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article


Of course, it's not over until it's over...

[O Really]

I didn't know the US could prosecute crimes committed elsewhere. But apparently so. In any case, it's surprising they could get a conviction given the inherent conflicting testimony and inevitable loss of evidence for an occurrence in Baghdad. Not that I doubt some of the Blackwater people probably did get trigger-happy. Mercenaries aren't hired because they're nice guys.

[rstrong]

I didn't know the US could prosecute crimes committed elsewhere.

For America's soldiers, that's the standard deal.

Consider the Marine pilots who while hot-dogging through a valley in Italy, cut a cable-car wire and killed a bunch of people. They could be prosecuted by the US ONLY.

In that case it was a NATO agreement, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization Status of Forces Agreement (NATO SOFA), that gave the United States the primary right to jurisdiction "in relation to . . . offenses arising out of any act or omission in the performance of official duty."

That of course gave some Italians conniption fits. But if Italy wants the economic benefits of a US airbase in Aviano, and as part of the deal gives the US jurisdiction over their own people in case of accidents (even stupid accidents), well, that's Italy's decision. If that applies to 20-something's given hot jets, well, Italians can play "What Happens Next" as well as anyone.

An Italian court dismissed indictments against the pilots for lack of jurisdiction. Italian or Canadian pilots operating in the US with NATO would be subject to their own country's' jurisdiction only.

On the other hand a couple US soldiers who raped a young girl in Japan around the same time were handed over to local authorities. It had nothing to do with their duties, negligent or otherwise, so the military wiped it's hands of them.

Blackwater insisted on US jurisdiction only. They wouldn't want to their people at the mercy of corrupt local authorities, or even worse, honest ones.

In any case, it's surprising they could get a conviction given the inherent conflicting testimony and inevitable loss of evidence for an occurrence in Baghdad.

In this case there was plenty of evidence and a great many witnesses, compared to the average murder scene in the US.

[O Really]

That's helpful. Thanks. But I knew military people can and do get prosecuted. Blackwater employees, however, are not in the military. Can a person commit a crime in, say, Canada, and decline prosecution in favor of going to US court? I would have thought the Blackwater people were civilians, subject to the laws of whatever country they were in, not unlike the news guys running around there. Maybe because the news guys are not working for the government and Blackwater was?

[rstrong]

Blackwater employees, however, are not in the military. Can a person commit a crime in, say, Canada, and decline prosecution in favor of going to US court? I would have thought the Blackwater people were civilians, subject to the laws of whatever country they were in, not unlike the news guys running around there. Maybe because the news guys are not working for the government and Blackwater was?

Military contractors are covered under the Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act.

That alone wouldn't exempt them from local jurisdiction, but it gives the US jurisdiction. To be exempt from local jurisdiction they'd need something like the NATO agreement above or the agreement between the US and the Iraqi government during the occupation.

It got more complicated in Iraq when the occupation ended. The U.S. government tried and failed to negotiate immunity for private defense contractors working for the State Department.

It would be the same story in Canada or the US. American soldiers in Canada would no doubt fall under the NATO agreement and be subject to US jurisdiction only - so long as any bad behavior were done while performing their duties. Mercenaries, er, contractors, working in Canada would be under US jurisdiction via the Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act. But they would of course ALSO be under Canadian jurisdiction, unless the US and Canada made an agreement otherwise. Which even before the antics of Blackwater/Xe/Academi was highly unlikely.

And then there's police:

For a decade the US and Canada have had the Shiprider Agreements, where police from either country ride on the Great Lakes and Maritime coast guard ships of the other. The officers involved have all been trained and educated in Canadian and U.S. law, including criminal code, privacy laws and sovereignty and cultural issues. Under some circumstances a Coast Guard vessel from one country can make an arrest in the other country's waters.

In recent years they've been expanding the program to cover officers doing cross-border policing on land. Not just chasing criminals across the border and stopping smugglers and human traffickers; U.S. Customs and Border Protection officers to work with Canada Border Services agents at truck pre-clearance areas on the border.

Where it hit a snag is when a US official demanded immunity for American officers working in Canada. While Canadian police working in the US would also get immunity, the RCMP has recommended against it.

Officers for INTERPOL have been given gradually increasing diplomatic immunity-like protections in the US starting with Reagan.

[Mr.B]

"That's helpful. Thanks. But I knew military people can and do get prosecuted. Blackwater employees, however, are not in the military. Can a person commit a crime in, say, Canada, and decline prosecution in favor of going to US court? I would have thought the Blackwater people were civilians, subject to the laws of whatever country they were in, not unlike the news guys running around there. Maybe because the news guys are not working for the government and Blackwater was?"

I would have to say that because they were hired by the US gov't. to work in a US-involved combat zone to protect US dignitaries, that would make them accountable for 'war crimes', the same as any other US active combatant.

I haven't done any background on this, but that would seem culpable.

[O Really]

Thanks - it's always nice to learn something new. Whereya been?

[rstrong]

I've just been very, very busy. When that happens, forums are one of the first things to go.

[rstrong]

I've also been using Vrede as an alert service. Normally I try to confirm facts or get a citation before I post. That standard drops as I get busier and I have less time. When Vrede lets me know that one of my posts was a wee bit on the goddamned stupid side, it's time to step away until I have more time.

But then I get behind on what's happening here, and I need enough time to scan through a backlog of posts.

[Mr.B]

:-0?> Now that's strange....how did my post get posted after rstrong's post? I know what the time stamp says, but there was no other reply to O Really when I clicked the "Submit" button and my reply was next when I viewed my post. I came back later and rstrong's post was before mine..... :-0?>
(and don't say it's the time zone thingy!)

Had that been the case originally, I would not have posted my suppositional post, as rstrong would have already answered O's question.

[rstrong]

3 Blackwater guards sentenced to 30 years in prison, 1 sentenced to life

4 employees of the security company were convicted after 14 left dead in Baghdad

Of course the sentence likely won't survive the appeal, but still. Justice!

[O Really]

The sentence might not survive appeal, but hopefully the convictions will. Now on to get Prince charged with something.