Everybody needs something good to look forward to: secession could work

[billy.pilgrim]

nothing like a 5 or 10 year left vs right secession plan to lift all our spirits

I, for one, am tired of living with these assholes.


Besides not having to deal with them, just imagine the hilarity at watching them try to govern themselves.

[neoplacebo]

Wouldn't lift my spirits. My spirits would be dragging their balls in a gig like that.,,,,and that's dangerous.

[Whack9]

Been trying to figure out how to secede from work duties while still getting paid.

[billy.pilgrim]

Who exactly would be seceding, and from what?

Just divide the country. Give all the Bundys, constitutional Sheriffs, 3%ers, kkk types, nazis, etc. their own country.

Give all the healthcare for all, education oriented, science based, human rights people their own country.


It would be complicated but could be done. I'm tired of living in a country with a population so ignorant that they could even consider voting and electing P.T. Barnum or watching a news outlet that spews intentional lies. These last 20 years has led me to believe that there is no other "fix" for what we have become.

[Whack9]

Who exactly would be seceding, and from what?

Just divide the country. Give all the Bundys, constitutional Sheriffs, 3%ers, kkk types, nazis, etc. their own country.

Give all the healthcare for all, education oriented, science based, human rights people their own country.


It would be complicated but could be done. I'm tired of living in a country with a population so ignorant that they could even consider voting and electing P.T. Barnum or watching a news outlet that spews intentional lies. These last 20 years has led me to believe that there is no other "fix" for what we have become.

Facebook, man. People are stupid. I had my doubts, but people are just plain stupid and easily swayed. Willful ignorance and intellectual laziness. Tap into those base emotions like anger and outrage and you can lead people around like a dog on a chain. Trump is good at this. They finally have someone as shitty as them in a position of power and suddenly feel vindicated in their shitty-ness.

[billy.pilgrim]

Who exactly would be seceding, and from what?

Just divide the country. Give all the Bundys, constitutional Sheriffs, 3%ers, kkk types, nazis, etc. their own country.

Give all the healthcare for all, education oriented, science based, human rights people their own country.


It would be complicated but could be done. I'm tired of living in a country with a population so ignorant that they could even consider voting and electing P.T. Barnum or watching a news outlet that spews intentional lies. These last 20 years has led me to believe that there is no other "fix" for what we have become.

Facebook, man. People are stupid. I had my doubts, but people are just plain stupid and easily swayed. Willful ignorance and intellectual laziness. Tap into those base emotions like anger and outrage and you can lead people around like a dog on a chain. Trump is good at this. They finally have someone as shitty as them in a position of power and suddenly feel vindicated in their shitty-ness.

They all need their own country.

Think of all the fun watching them fail.

[Whack9]

One unfortunate consequence of that is now having your home part of the new Kingdom of Trumpistan

[billy.pilgrim]

One unfortunate consequence of that is now having your home part of the new Kingdom of Trumpistan

there would be a 5 year plan allowing for property sales and job relocation.


After that, the liberal side would only accept refugees who throughly denounce right wing bullshit.

[neoplacebo]

If the nutjobs want to establish Wingnutistan, I'm all for it if they promise to stay there and BUILD THE WALL so they will be secure. Perfect.

[Whack9]

I don't know about you guys, but growing up in a rural redneck economically depressed area, we always believed that cities were bastions of decadence and decay, and the rural areas were being squeezed by the big cities to prop them up. I grew up about 2 hours from NYC and an hour from Philly and only set foot in Philly a handful of times and thoroughly believed the narrative until I began spending a lot of time in the big scary cities in my early twenties.

I think a lot of rural folks think the same way.

[O Really]

I'd take the dark blue states - California, Oregon and Washington in the west - most of New England, New York, NJ, and MD in the east to be the foundation of two allied countries. The others could hold an election to determine if they want to become part of either of those countries, or to (a) declare independence or (b) form a Red union. Any state voting to become part of one of the new countries would be considered - but not guaranteed - for membership.

[O Really]

I don't know about you guys, but growing up in a rural redneck economically depressed area, we always believed that cities were bastions of decadence and decay, and the rural areas were being squeezed by the big cities to prop them up. I grew up about 2 hours from NYC and an hour from Philly and only set foot in Philly a handful of times and thoroughly believed the narrative until I began spending a lot of time in the big scary cities in my early twenties.

I think a lot of rural folks think the same way.

So - you were Amish with electricity, eh?

[Whack9]

I don't know about you guys, but growing up in a rural redneck economically depressed area, we always believed that cities were bastions of decadence and decay, and the rural areas were being squeezed by the big cities to prop them up. I grew up about 2 hours from NYC and an hour from Philly and only set foot in Philly a handful of times and thoroughly believed the narrative until I began spending a lot of time in the big scary cities in my early twenties.

I think a lot of rural folks think the same way.

So - you were Amish with electricity, eh?

For real. My family was terrified of venturing out of their little rural bubble.

[billy.pilgrim]

I'd take the dark blue states - California, Oregon and Washington in the west - most of New England, New York, NJ, and MD in the east to be the foundation of two allied countries. The others could hold an election to determine if they want to become part of either of those countries, or to (a) declare independence or (b) form a Red union. Any state voting to become part of one of the new countries would be considered - but not guaranteed - for membership.

It could be done. It would have to be somewhat fair and wouldn't have to be whole states.

You can't let no access to the Pacific or the Gulf be a deal killer. Mostly conservative southern calif would go wingnut and the Florida peninsula would go blue.

Then there would be a massuve works project of walls and tunnels to avoid having to cross into the other sides territory.

Just imagine, the dollars that we spend in taxes no longer going to prop up the red welfare states.

[Vrede too]

It could be done. It would have to be somewhat fair and wouldn't have to be whole states.

You can't let no access to the Pacific or the Gulf be a deal killer. Mostly conservative southern calif

Not anymore. It's mostly a coastal-inland thing.


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... county.svg

... Then there would be a massuve works project of walls and tunnels to avoid having to cross into the other sides territory....

That would be a disaster for wildlife. Better and cheaper to just fit everybody with a shock collar attuned to their red or blue nation.

Just imagine, the dollars that we spend in taxes no longer going to prop up the red welfare states.

We're compassionate and practical. There might be some foreign aid, partly to reduce the refugee problem.

[O Really]

I wouldn't be looking for absolute purity of ideology or culture in my new countries, wouldn't expect 100% of the people living there to be totally supportive of the leadership. But one of the things I like about living on the west coast is that while there are certainly pockets of trumpist-type people, they don't get to run the place. But still, if you wanted to lop off WA east of the Cascades and group it with Idaho, probably nobody would be upset, although there would be a loss of major wheat and potato production. I wouldn't give up Central Valley farms and products in California, though, even though Nunes manages to get himself elected. And I'd consider letting in Nevada, just as a barrier area.

But California itself would be the world's 5th largest economy, and if you add OR and WA, have open trade with Canada and Mexico, you've got a Trump-free powerhouse.

You're welcome to come join us, billy.p. You wouldn't have to give up your beach life - we've got beaches, too.

[O Really]

I don't know about you guys, but growing up in a rural redneck economically depressed area, we always believed that cities were bastions of decadence and decay, and the rural areas were being squeezed by the big cities to prop them up. I grew up about 2 hours from NYC and an hour from Philly and only set foot in Philly a handful of times and thoroughly believed the narrative until I began spending a lot of time in the big scary cities in my early twenties.

I think a lot of rural folks think the same way.

So - you were Amish with electricity, eh?

For real. My family was terrified of venturing out of their little rural bubble.

When I lived in Philadelphia, I seem to remember road maps that showed the Atlantic City Expressway, then at the end a strip named "Downashore" and in between was labeled "there be where dragons lie"

[Whack9]

I don't know about you guys, but growing up in a rural redneck economically depressed area, we always believed that cities were bastions of decadence and decay, and the rural areas were being squeezed by the big cities to prop them up. I grew up about 2 hours from NYC and an hour from Philly and only set foot in Philly a handful of times and thoroughly believed the narrative until I began spending a lot of time in the big scary cities in my early twenties.

I think a lot of rural folks think the same way.

So - you were Amish with electricity, eh?

For real. My family was terrified of venturing out of their little rural bubble.

When I lived in Philadelphia, I seem to remember road maps that showed the Atlantic City Expressway, then at the end a strip named "Downashore" and in between was labeled "there be where dragons lie"

Probably the Pine Barrens. The place is pretty remote for being in New Jersey. Also very pretty.

[billy.pilgrim]

I wouldn't be looking for absolute purity of ideology or culture in my new countries, wouldn't expect 100% of the people living there to be totally supportive of the leadership. But one of the things I like about living on the west coast is that while there are certainly pockets of trumpist-type people, they don't get to run the place. But still, if you wanted to lop off WA east of the Cascades and group it with Idaho, probably nobody would be upset, although there would be a loss of major wheat and potato production. I wouldn't give up Central Valley farms and products in California, though, even though Nunes manages to get himself elected. And I'd consider letting in Nevada, just as a barrier area.

But California itself would be the world's 5th largest economy, and if you add OR and WA, have open trade with Canada and Mexico, you've got a Trump-free powerhouse.

You're welcome to come join us, billy.p. You wouldn't have to give up your beach life - we've got beaches, too.

I would move in a minute. I'm sure that there are people who would trade with me.

I think Lincoln made any possibility a lot harder, but who knows, maybe a serious discussion would get people to thinking that what we have ain't to bad.

[O Really]

I would see more of a negotiated "brexit" type separation rather than another actual war. Lincoln et. al. took the reasonable position that the US is one "united" country that states couldn't resign from. While that position still generally holds, there's nothing to say that it couldn't be changed. If it were a "brexit" type vote, followed by negotiation on relationships, trade, etc. you have to wonder how many in present red states would really vote to keep California. Probably few unless they'd been through the Central Valley to see where their food comes from. There may be significant disadvantages, but I'm short-sighted enough that if MS, AL, etc. wanted out, I'd vote for their exit.