Massacre in Connecticut

[bannination]

Leo, I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest and I think that we will settle out on the same side of the issue for the most part anyway. I'm just trying to point out that the term "assault" weapon is actually one that is based in opinion. With that in mind how can any effective rule be drafted when it is based on a definition formed in opinion. I have an old Mossberg 22 that holds 15 rounds is that an assault weapon?? Your logic says that it takes multiple rounds to be an "assault". Would not a single round to the chest ALSO be considered an assault? Point being is that once you start banning weapons based on an opinion of "assault" weapons you start onto a slippery slope of banning sporting arms because of any of the conditions that might label one as an assault weapon.

You're right "assault weapons" has a very unclear definition, but it's simple to just start at assault rifles. That's fairly clearly defined.

[Mad American]

I think the Bushmaster he used fits any definition.

Exactly my point. The Bushmaster is built on the AR-15 platform but is one of the largest selling brands for sporting use.....thus begins the slippery slope.

[Mad American]

You're right "assault weapons" has a very unclear definition, but it's simple to just start at assault rifles. That's fairly clearly defined.

How so? Assault "rifle" is no more clear than assault "weapon". One of the most deadly snipers ever to serve in the Marines used a Winchester model 70 in 30-06....a weapon that is also one the most popular among hunters.

[Mad American]

We're on the slippery slope of school and other mass shootings, assault weapons make them more efficient.

Efficient or effective?
http://www.latimes.com/news/world/world ... 3015.story

We protect our nations gold and high ranking officials with armed guards and medal detectors. Why not our nations kids?

[bannination]

You're right "assault weapons" has a very unclear definition, but it's simple to just start at assault rifles. That's fairly clearly defined.

How so? Assault "rifle" is no more clear than assault "weapon". One of the most deadly snipers ever to serve in the Marines used a Winchester model 70 in 30-06....a weapon that is also one the most popular among hunters.

Sounds pretty clear to me:

An assault rifle is a select-fire (either fully automatic or burst capable) rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine. It is not to be confused with assault weapons.[1] Assault rifles are the standard service rifles in most modern armies. Assault rifles are categorized in between light machine guns, which are intended more for sustained automatic fire in a light support role, and submachine guns, which fire a pistol cartridge rather than a rifle cartridge.

[Mad American]

Sounds pretty clear to me:

An assault rifle is a select-fire (either fully automatic or burst capable) rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine. It is not to be confused with assault weapons.[1] Assault rifles are the standard service rifles in most modern armies. Assault rifles are categorized in between light machine guns, which are intended more for sustained automatic fire in a light support role, and submachine guns, which fire a pistol cartridge rather than a rifle cartridge.

Those type of rifles are already ILLEGAL for basic civilian purchase. There is literally a mountain of paperwork and a lengthy process before you can legally posses one outside of military or law enforcement use.

[Mad American]

I meant efficient at killing, but if you want to parse words Lanza was more effective than your example where none died. As for efficient, you article does not give a time frame. It took Lanza less than 10 minutes to kill 27.

Given 3 seconds per round and 10 seconds to reload an efficient shooter can accurately and effectively place 30 rounds in 140 seconds with a K frame Smith and Wesson revolver. Is that an assault weapon?

[Reality]

O Really wrote:...IMNVHO, the gun nuts have won. The NRA owns the country, and the only thing we can do is focus on better security, knowing there will be other attacks, and soon.

O'R, the Mayor of NY doesn't agree with you that the NRA owns the country.

[bannination]

Sounds pretty clear to me:

An assault rifle is a select-fire (either fully automatic or burst capable) rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine. It is not to be confused with assault weapons.[1] Assault rifles are the standard service rifles in most modern armies. Assault rifles are categorized in between light machine guns, which are intended more for sustained automatic fire in a light support role, and submachine guns, which fire a pistol cartridge rather than a rifle cartridge.

Those type of rifles are already ILLEGAL for basic civilian purchase. There is literally a mountain of paperwork and a lengthy process before you can legally posses one outside of military or law enforcement use.

So how did this guy get one?

Edit: I see, it doesn't have select fire so it dodges the Assault Rifle category.

30 to 60 rounds per magazine, I'd hardly classify that as "Hunting" purpose. Perhaps they should redefine the Assault Rifle category to include these types of guns. I'm interested to know if he was the registered owner anyway.

[Mad American]

Could be, but a nerdy, troubled, 20 year old punk doesn't have to be an "efficient shooter" to butcher 26 with multiple rounds each if he has a Bushmaster, does he?

Is there nothing else you can think of besides your love of guns to contribute to this thread?

Again merely pointing out that a weapon does not have to look scarey and "military" to be VERY deadly in large quantities. Which is why attempting to legislate rules against "assault" weapons will be inneffective in the desired results. All that it will accomplish will be to remove freedom from law abiding citizens.

I've got plenty more I could contribute to many threads....I just don't have a desire to do so.

[Mad American]

So how did this guy get one?

He did NOT have one. He had a legal Bushmaster semi-automatic AR-15 platform. The semi-auto requires a trigger pull for every projectile fired.

[Reality]

Vred, don't believe my post to O'REALLY addressed what success the good Mayor may have. I just pointed out that the Mayor didn't agree with O'R. I believe the Mayor's point was that the NRA doesn't have the pull that so many think they have. Since NY has some of the toughest gun laws in the country the NRA must not have had a lot of success in that State.

[bannination]

I think the reality of it is while increased gun control is definitely something people should think about, it's not going to solve the underlying problem. If someone has the intent to kill a bunch of people they will make it happen. There are too many ways to kill a large group of people with only household chemicals, one just needs the ingenuity. (It will only stop the most ignorant of people.)

I believe the thing that would help more than anything is access to health care. (In this case, mental health care.) (Note: Not the ER pump and dump health care the cons are so fond of.)

[bannination]

Looks like our favorite Christian group Westboro plans on protesting at the school.

[Wneglia]

The ATF in its infinite wisdom has ruled it legal to use a slide fire stock which converts a semi-automatic assault style weapon into a defacto automatic weapon (not true automatic, but extremely rapid fire)

[Leo Lyons]

'SNL' Opens With 'Silent Night' in Honor of Shooting Victims.... Made me cry again.

Surely you jest!!! They sang of a "virgin mother and child!" You didn't find that offensive?? That's completely contrary to
many of your past posts that ridiculed that notion!

And oh yeah; the ending to that song was a real tear jerker.

[Leo Lyons]

Looks like our favorite Christian group Westboro plans on protesting at the school.

Already been covered.

[Leo Lyons]

I think the reality of it is while increased gun control is definitely something people should think about, it's not going to solve the underlying problem. If someone has the intent to kill a bunch of people they will make it happen.

What I said: "When Guns Are Outlawed, Only Outlaws Will Have Guns".

[bannination]

I think the reality of it is while increased gun control is definitely something people should think about, it's not going to solve the underlying problem. If someone has the intent to kill a bunch of people they will make it happen.

What I said: "When Guns Are Outlawed, Only Outlaws Will Have Guns".

That might be true, but it's also true that the overall murder rates by guns will decrease if they were outlawed. At least if it follows a similar pattern to other countries.

I like my guns, but that's a cold hard fact I have to face myself.

[Leo Lyons]

I like my guns, but that's a cold hard fact I have to face myself.

That's the most intelligent reply I've heard yet; that's why I asked what you had for protection in the event of a break-in.

The cold hard fact is that more outlaws have, or have access to, more guns than law abiding people. Law abiding people cannot be expected to just sit back and be intimidated by those who would maim, rape, and kill for pleasure. On the other hand, the elimination of assault-type weapons who's sole purpose is to kill at a rapid pace should be banned. I've been up against these types of weapons and believe me, our law enforcements are badly out gunned in many situations. One scenario that comes to mind is the bank robbery shoot-out in L.A. back in '97.

LINKS