Massacre in Connecticut

[Crock Hunter]

They in no way represent the thinking of an overwhelming number of Christians.

Try to recall that frame of mind when next painting "Liberals" with your broad brush.. .. ..

[rstrong]

The problem is - I think - that even if you completely outlawed guns right now, how long would it take before they'd be much harder to find so that our gun violence rates match other countries? Is there precedence for this?

Certainly it's a problem, but it would have been largely fixed by now if it had been tackled that the above ad came out. And it does not mean violating the 2nd amendment.

It means holding people accountable for their guns (so that for example, their kids or simple break-&-enters can't get at them.) If a gun is used in a crime, the registered owner is held accountable. If they claim the gun was stolen, they'd better be able to product a police report. And there would be strict penalties for possessing a stolen gun.

Once you do THAT, you can start getting excess guns off the street. Here in Winnipeg - where handgun used in crimes tend to be smuggled in from the US - we just had the Pixels for Pistols program. Digital cameras were traded for guns. More than 1,700 firearms and 13,000 rounds of ammunition were surrendered in the space of a month. That's 1,700 firearms that won't end up in the hands of criminals, all for the taxpayer cost of just one prosecution and jail term.

It means enforcing existing laws about background checks, which are ignored at gun shows. And again, they'd better be able to produce a paper trail for where those guns went.

It means strict penalties for using a gun in a crime. (In some states you can go to jail for simple pot posession for longer than for killing someone with a gun.) Japan has such a low gun violence rate because of those strict penalties. Sure the Yakuza (Japanese mafia) still has guns, but it just means they will get 10 more years in prison if they get busted while holding one.

It's not about taking guns away. It's about accountability.

[bannination]

They in no way represent the thinking of an overwhelming number of Christians.

Try to recall that frame of mind when next painting "Liberals" with your broad brush.. .. ..

ooooo looks like soupy is going to need some aloe for that burn......

[Reality]

Vred, I can get the base chaplian's phone number for you if you like.

BTW, the wheels came off the thread when you, as always, started attacking the messengers and not the message - note messengers is plural.

I use the PM for those who honor the "P". You don't qualify.

[O Really]

I'll clarify my viewpoint in this discussion:
1. There will not be meaningful national gun control laws passed, despite much harrummphing.
2. The NRA, through its idiot fanatic fringe has won. (Not all NRA members are part of the idiot fanatic fringe), by becoming the gun equivalent of Norquist.
3. The Second Amendment ties the hands of anyone actually wanting to make a significant effort. You can say that's a good thing or a bad thing, but that's the way it is.
4. Nevertheless, irrational paranoia reigns:

"Newtown-area gun businesses say sales have picked up since President Barack Obama's election, as gun owners fear a crack-down.

"It's absolutely booming right now - anything about guns. People are scared out of their wildest dreams that the FBI is going to come and knock down their doors," said Sean Eldridge, owner of Parker Gunsmithing in nearby Bethel, who specializes in repairing and restoring guns."

[O Really]

Consider an analogy - in home security issues, you cannot do anything that will absolutely guarantee that your home will never be invaded. But - you can take reasonable precautions, including lighting, fencing, electronics, dog, good locks, good doors and windows, etc. You also don't want to leave anything around that a bad guy can use to break into your house with - like leaving your axe on the woodpile.

With regard to guns and bad guys, we're not just leaving the axe on the woodpile, we're turning off the alarm, selling the dog, and leaving the front door open with directions to the safe.

[O Really]

I can't believe this - I was going to mention that it was a bunch of lazy good-for-nothing union teachers that were heros at the school, but I ran across this... Tea Party Group Blames Teachers, Unions, and Sex (for the shooting).
Stranger than fiction... http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/ ... s-and-sex/

[Stinger]

He's obviously a hateful loon, exceeded in that only by the TP drones that made him their leader, but Adam Lanza came from a white, corporate, gun-loving, survivalist home - in other words, TP heaven. So, Tea Party Nation head Judson Phillips is an idiot, too.

I remember hearing some really good conversations (on NPR) between leading members of the TEAnuts when this first started. There were more (relatively speaking) rational ones who insisted that the TEA party be ideology free and focus solely on economics, deficit, debt, government spending, etc. (Sort of a libertarian twist.)

Then there were the ones who insisted that the anti-abortion, anti-gay-rights, anti-critical-thinking, anti-rational-thought, Gelicals-are-our-friends, full-blown-extreme-right-ideology loons who insisted the TEA party incorporate everything far right.

Guess who won.

[Leo Lyons]

What is the population of each of those countries compared to the U.S. ?

Think that might just be a teeny bit of a reason why the U.S. numbers are so much higher?

[O Really]

What is the population of each of those countries compared to the U.S. ?

Think that might just be a teeny bit of a reason why the U.S. numbers are so much higher?

If you'd rather know than snark, it would be pretty easy to calculate a "per 100,000" rate. Do you really think all those others would be lower?

[Stinger]

What is the population of each of those countries compared to the U.S. ?

Think that might just be a teeny bit of a reason why the U.S. numbers are so much higher?

Japan. 48 ÷ 127,368,088 = 0.00003%
U.S 10,728 ÷ 314,959,000 = 0.003%

You're 100 times more likely to die from a handgun in the U.S. Too bad they didn't teach you any math in that college education you had to qualify for the DEA.

[Leo Lyons]

Too bad they didn't teach you any math in that college education you had to qualify for the DEA.

That's not all they taught me in the DEA you wimpyass faggot. Tell you what, Keyboard Rambo; I believe I saw where you said you live in Gainesville. I've got to be in Gainesville in three weeks; and if you will PM me your email address and/or phone number, I'll let you know exactly when I'll be there. I have an acquaintance who owns an MMA Gym off S.W. 34th., and I'm sure he'll let us borrow a ring for a bit of sparring. All out in the open, no weapons, just bare or gloved hands. If you like I'll be happy to show you just what the DEA teaches in addition to math.

Now, I may be biting off more than I can chew; I might get my ass kicked. I'm only 5' 8", 169 pounds and am 62 years old. I've only had my ass kicked maybe six times, but I'm still in good physical shape. You want to put your alligator mouth in the ring with me? Just say yes or no, no shame in backing down.

Is Leo Lyons really so dumb as to think that lower national population explains the difference or is this some childish troll? It would be kind of obscene in this thread.

No, Dipstick. I thought, even though I left it out of the post, that you all would have sense enough to consider that fact; after all
you seem to have enough sense to break down and pick apart anything else anyone writes. geeze.

[O Really]

Leo seems to be a bit abusive in use of his AndroGel. Of course, being an MMA champion doesn't mean one is not an idiot or that one could not get his dick broken... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1448 ... dwide-weep

[rstrong]

Once again, you are too easy....I was not referring to the total homicide rate, but to the mass shootings that seem to be happening more frequently today.

That's because assault rifles are FAR more common today. Assault rifles like the AR-15, the commercially sold version of the M16, used in this killing.

It's not just that they can fire faster. They can fire far more rounds, not giving victims a chance to make a break for it while the NRA-protected shooter reloads. But more importantly assault rifles have a much higher muzzle velocity. 3,200 ft/s for the M16/AR-15, compared to a typical handgun like the Beretta M9 (1,250 ft/s). Where a hit in the abdomen or limb from a handgun would be survivable, the same hit from an M16/AR-15 is not. Hydrostatic shock - the pressure wave moving through the victim's mostly liquid body - scrambles their brain.

In virtually every mass shooting, the mentally ill have been violent perpetrators, despite your little diatribe.

And.....? They're still killing people with easily available, no training or qualifications needed assault rifles.

Gun availability has no more effect than the availability of a fast car for a drunk driver's crimes.

Please tell us that even you aren't stupid enough to believe that. Not with the mountain of evidence otherwise. Just look at the comparison of countries above.

Canada's capital city of Ottawa had 16 murders in 2007, and Washington, D.C., which has roughly the same population, had 195 murders.

"Handguns are available for self protection in Seattle, but not in nearby Vancouver, Canada; handgun killings are five times more common and the handgun suicide rate is ten times greater in Seattle. Guns make impulsive killing easy." (Carl Sagan, Demon Haunted World)

[Reality]

rstrong, NRA protected shooter? Taking liberties aren't you.

"Readily available? Do not believe the NRA is responsible for making firearms unavailable in the privacy of the gunowner's home.

Do you in your wildest dreams think the murder rate in Washington DC is a legitimate comparison to any City in Canada?

[Reality]

Vred, right here in good old NC there are cities much smaller than the COC that have more murders.

Wonder how come some of the blood bath cities of Mexico have not been brought into this discussion?

[rstrong]

rstrong, your knowledge of firearms are pathetic.

That would be too big a cooincidence.

While I provided the link about high muzzle velocity and hydrostatic shock, I did not need to look it up. A friend in the military explained it to me.

I don't claim to be an expert. I merely know enough to tell when someone is spewing pure BS. Yourself for example.

As far as semiautomatic rifles, the M1 carbine was just as available, just as deadly and held as many rounds as an AR-15. They were cheap and plentiful long before even the military had M-16s. Don't be stupid enough to claim that the gun is the problem....semi-auto firearms have been available since 1900, high capacity clips since 1935.

They've been no-where near as common outside of the military until more recently. Mass killings have become more common as assault rifles have become more common.

As far as the murder rate, let me know if you want to explore WHO is committing those D.C. murders and why....that will give you the real answer as to why Canada has a lower murder rate....hint: it's NOT the guns, is the wielder.

What, does gun violence go up with proximity to the equator? With proximity to stars and/or stripes?

Somehow I suspect you'll blame it on ethnic minorities, as if Canada doesn't have them. As if Britain doesn't have them. As if Japan.... OK, Japan is pretty xenophobic. Vancouver is far more ethnically diverse than Seattle, and the gun disparity still exists.

No doubt you could explain a 10 or 12% difference with some credibility. But not a 1219% difference. The one thing that's proven many times over, is that there is less gun violence where there are more restrictions on guns.

[Reality]

So Vred, what is about "southern" that makes for more violence?

[Crock Hunter]

...People could by machine guns before 1933, for goodness sake. And shotguns were everywhere back then, which can be far more devastating at close range...

Interesting choice of year, it was a very bloody one.

Homicide Rates USA, 1900 - 1998

Did you have a point?

Which begs the question.. Why were "machine guns" available pre-1933 and not now and do the gunnuts want to see those back on the streets..

[Reality]

Vred, you say your statement about "southern" is based on fact. What facts and what's your source.

My theory could be wrong if I accept your facts. You first.