Coronavirus

[GoCubsGo]

Employees, yes, as long as they leave limited medical/religious exception - which don't have to be absolute. Customers - not so clear yet. But the ever-clever DeSantis is leading in getting that issue to court, and I'm guessing he'll lose and businesses will be able to legally limit customers to the vaccinated or certainly give them better stuff. I'm all for it.

Yep, and don't forget learning institutions which have so far successfully mandated vaccines for adults.

[O Really]

And I'd add to your list:
Wanna get into the Uber/Lyft/Taxi? Get a shot.
Wanna get a drivers licence, marriage licence? Get a shot.
Want somebody to bring you GrubHub or InstaShop? Get a shot.

I'd try to make it so that an unvaccinated person could SITFH, or drive themselves to church, and little else. And I'd be working on a constitutional way to get their church attendance limited without a shot.

[billy.pilgrim]

Employees, yes, as long as they leave limited medical/religious exception - which don't have to be absolute. Customers - not so clear yet. But the ever-clever DeSantis is leading in getting that issue to court, and I'm guessing he'll lose and businesses will be able to legally limit customers to the vaccinated or certainly give them better stuff. I'm all for it.

Didn't DeSantis win the court case brought by the cruise ship company?

[O Really]

Employees, yes, as long as they leave limited medical/religious exception - which don't have to be absolute. Customers - not so clear yet. But the ever-clever DeSantis is leading in getting that issue to court, and I'm guessing he'll lose and businesses will be able to legally limit customers to the vaccinated or certainly give them better stuff. I'm all for it.

Didn't DeSantis win the court case brought by the cruise ship company?

Partially, but that was really over the extent to which CDC can enforce it's requirements. The cruise ships were using CDC as the primary reason for their requiring vaccinations. Lower court ruled in favor of the CDC rules; appeals ruled that their enforcement was limited, giving DeSantis a bragging win if not an actual win for his stupid law. Story's not over yet.

[billy.pilgrim]

And I'd add to your list:
Wanna get into the Uber/Lyft/Taxi? Get a shot.
Wanna get a drivers licence, marriage licence? Get a shot.
Want somebody to bring you GrubHub or InstaShop? Get a shot.

I'd try to make it so that an unvaccinated person could SITFH, or drive themselves to church, and little else. And I'd be working on a constitutional way to get their church attendance limited without a shot.

But we won't. Joe knows it would cost him the election. The trouble is that he's already lost the election so why not save lives and do what it takes to stop this thing.

[billy.pilgrim]

Employees, yes, as long as they leave limited medical/religious exception - which don't have to be absolute. Customers - not so clear yet. But the ever-clever DeSantis is leading in getting that issue to court, and I'm guessing he'll lose and businesses will be able to legally limit customers to the vaccinated or certainly give them better stuff. I'm all for it.

Didn't DeSantis win the court case brought by the cruise ship company?

Partially, but that was really over the extent to which CDC can enforce it's requirements. The cruise ships were using CDC as the primary reason for their requiring vaccinations. Lower court ruled in favor of the CDC rules; appeals ruled that their enforcement was limited, giving DeSantis a bragging win if not an actual win for his stupid law. Story's not over yet.

It has been encouraging to see some local governments giving his New Rules the finger. Too bad it's not the ones in my area.

Where's absent commander in chief of the military? Why can't he issue an order?

[O Really]

But we won't. Joe knows it would cost him the election. The trouble is that he's already lost the election so why not save lives and do what it takes to stop this thing.

I don't think there will be another election for Biden. But he (along with others) seems to be dragging while waiting for the "final FDA approval," which for whatever mysterious reason seems still to be some time away. There seems to be a reluctance to require people to take an "experimental" or "emergency use" vaccine. That supposedly the hang-up in requiring it of all military people. Trump would have just ordered the FDA head to issue approval "tomorrow" or clean out their desk. Somewhere between the two extremes ought to lie a reasonable solution.

[GoCubsGo]

Employees, yes, as long as they leave limited medical/religious exception - which don't have to be absolute. Customers - not so clear yet. But the ever-clever DeSantis is leading in getting that issue to court, and I'm guessing he'll lose and businesses will be able to legally limit customers to the vaccinated or certainly give them better stuff. I'm all for it.

Didn't DeSantis win the court case brought by the cruise ship company?

Partially, but that was really over the extent to which CDC can enforce it's requirements. The cruise ships were using CDC as the primary reason for their requiring vaccinations. Lower court ruled in favor of the CDC rules; appeals ruled that their enforcement was limited, giving DeSantis a bragging win if not an actual win for his stupid law. Story's not over yet.

Interestingly, all of the cruise lines sans one are still implementing the CDC guidelines. This is where the rubber meets the road as the government can't legislate these requirements (or lack thereof) for private businesses if they want to follow guidelines.

I'm sure all interested parties will be watching Crystal Serenity for viral hot spots as well as how their "business model" fares.

https://news.yahoo.com/crystal-serenity ... p_catchall

[GoCubsGo]

It's hardly going to smooth sailing though.

CDC guidance could spur 'head-butting' in the workplace over masks

[billy.pilgrim]

It's hardly going to smooth sailing though.

CDC guidance could spur 'head-butting' in the workplace over masks

The head office at West Florida Hospital told me, "we follow OSHA guidelines"

There was a lower compliance than I see at Walmart and they are a fucking hospital

[GoCubsGo]

It's hardly going to smooth sailing though.

CDC guidance could spur 'head-butting' in the workplace over masks

The head office at West Florida Hospital told me, "we follow OSHA guidelines"

There was a lower compliance than I see at Walmart and they are a fucking hospital

Well, it is after all Florida.

[neoplacebo]

At this point I don't even think I'd buy drugs from an unvaccinated dealer. And I would refuse a traffic ticket from an unvaccinated cop. What kind of shit is this?

[billy.pilgrim]

It's hardly going to smooth sailing though.

CDC guidance could spur 'head-butting' in the workplace over masks

The head office at West Florida Hospital told me, "we follow OSHA guidelines"

There was a lower compliance than I see at Walmart and they are a fucking hospital

Well, it is after all Florida.

A hospital owned and managed by HCA, a Tennessee corporation after all.

[neoplacebo]

Ballad Health now has a virtual monopoly on health care in east TN, southwest VA, and the surrounding area. They are a rabid nazi type outfit who pretty much demand that people be white and healthy and have good insurance or else they will ignore you. Most of the citizens go along with this out of sheer ignorance. Holston Valley Community Hospital operated in Kingsport for about ninety years but was shit canned so that a handful of millionaires can make some more money. I like to go there and piss and puke on their porch; in most cases with no deductible.

[Ulysses]

But we won't. Joe knows it would cost him the election. The trouble is that he's already lost the election so why not save lives and do what it takes to stop this thing.

I don't think there will be another election for Biden. But he (along with others) seems to be dragging while waiting for the "final FDA approval," which for whatever mysterious reason seems still to be some time away. There seems to be a reluctance to require people to take an "experimental" or "emergency use" vaccine. That supposedly the hang-up in requiring it of all military people. Trump would have just ordered the FDA head to issue approval "tomorrow" or clean out their desk. Somewhere between the two extremes ought to lie a reasonable solution.

Over the past few days I heard or read a news item that estimates full FDA approval for at least the Pfizer vaccine will be by this October.

https://www.statnews.com/2021/07/30/fda ... -approval/

Apparently the FDA is reassigning people/resources to speed up the process.

[O Really]

Apparently the FDA is reassigning people/resources to speed up the process.

I would think they would have done that months ago. They've got far, far more data on a simply huge number of people for this vaccine than they've probably ever had for any other medical product. 4.13 billion worldwide; 350 million in US. WTF are they still doing? Five countries have issued full approval for Pfizer: Australia, Brazil, New Zealand, Saudi Arabia, Switzerland. What do these people know that FDA doesn't?

[Ulysses]

Apparently the FDA is reassigning people/resources to speed up the process.

I would think they would have done that months ago. They've got far, far more data on a simply huge number of people for this vaccine than they've probably ever had for any other medical product. 4.13 billion worldwide; 350 million in US. WTF are they still doing? Five countries have issued full approval for Pfizer: Australia, Brazil, New Zealand, Saudi Arabia, Switzerland. What do these people know that FDA doesn't?

Yeah, I'm puzzled too why it's taking so long. I used to work in a lab at a public health school, about 40 years ago, but have (understandably after two subsequent career changes) fallen out of touch with those folks. But it would be interesting to get their opinions on this fiasco.

My rudimentary guess is that the FDA is still reeling from the Sabin/Cutter polio vaccine fiasco, where the vaccines produced by the Berkeley Cutter lab were improperly "inactivated" and wound up giving recipients polio instead. Look it up, it's a sad story. And I don't think Cutter Labs has produced a vaccine since then. Instead they seemed to specialize in mosquito repellent, which was quite successful (I think) for them. I once visited a young lady in Berkeley who lived next door to Dr. Cutter's mansion. Nuff said.

Anyway, apparently, it was easier to produce the Sabin oral polio vaccine than the Salk inactivated injected vaccine. But, also, the oral version is supposed to be somewhat more protective. I think I got both in the 50's.

[Vrede too]

Yeah, I'm puzzled too why it's taking so long....

Your link says:

... The process requires FDA staff to review millions of pages of complex data, conduct plant inspections, and negotiate with Pfizer over issues including the terms of the FDA’s approved label and the company’s postmarketing responsibilities. Now, the senior agency official said, the agency will initiate a “sprint.” ...

Remember, everything about this vaccine has already been way faster than ever before, and the FDA may not have anticipated the impact of the Russia-sponsored COVIDiot anti-vaxxers. In other times full approval would not have been so important. Plus, most of the anti-vaxxers are just going to keep whining, anyhow.

I doubt that the polio vaccine fiasco has anything to do with it directly. The lessons from that were incorporated into FDA policies and practices long ago, and my guess is that no one is running around shouting, "Remember Sabin/Cutter!".


_______ and _______ accounted for one-third of all new U.S. coronavirus cases last week, White House says

Spoiler:

Florida and Texas

I guessed correctly this time. No joy in that.

[O Really]

Process and procedures should be adapted to different circumstances. FDA approval never has meant that a product is absolutely guaranteed to never produce any side effects ever. It's quite clear, with hundreds of millions shots given, that "when used as directed" the vaccines are highly effective and produce minimal ill effects. Unless they just want to sit on it for a few years and see if anybody eventually grows a third eye or develops skin cancer from the chip implant, then get on with it.

[GoCubsGo]

_______ and _______ accounted for one-third of all new U.S. coronavirus cases last week, White House says

Spoiler:

Florida and Texas

I guessed correctly this time. No joy in that.

And neither covidiot governor will pay a political price.