Loganville GA Mom Ventilates Felonious Animal with .38 Rvlvr

[Banni]

As much as I like guns, the fewer people that have them the fewer people have to die.

[Mad American]

He had a crowbar and we don't know whether he would have fled upon finding people at home. From what we do know, I suspect my bear spray with a 20 foot range would have been as effective at protecting the family.

Maybe..maybe not. What if he had been strung out on drugs and "immune" to your spray. Willing to bet your life on that...willing to bet your CHILDREN'S lives?

There are always anecdotes. For example: 1 student shot at high school in Taft, Calif.

The facts are that a gun in the home makes one more likely to die of violence, living in a state with higher gun ownership makes one more likely to die of violence, and living in gun-happy America makes one more likely to die of violence.

How are the heavy regulations working out in Chicago, what about DC, might want to check with Newtown, CT too?? Simply because you claim something as fact does not make it so.

[O Really]

It's a shame when a story of courage and quick thought under pressure turns into another "why we all need guns" blather. The woman was courageous and I don't know anybody who's read the story that doesn't admire her for what she did. But as the gun ummm "enthusiasts" like to say, "the gun did nothing, it was the person." In this case the woman used what weapon she had. Had she not had a gun, I'm sure she would have used her teeth if necessary to protect her kids. Unless the intruder was after her personally, if she had answered the door (not necessarily opened it), he probably would have gone away. We don't know. But if one wants to say that without the gun she couldn't have defended herself, one would also have to agree that without the gun many crimes wouldn't get committed.

[Bungalow Bill]

That's why intelligent "felonious animals" should carry their own guns.

[Crock Hunter]

Frankly I'm amazed that she was able to do this without an assault rifle and a 30 round clip...

[mike]

Frankly I'm amazed that she was able to do this without an assault rifle and a 30 round clip...

Props, Crock ... thanks. Just what I was thinking.

[homerfobe]

Too bad she didn't pop him between the eyes. Would have taken a load off the state as well as rid society of another cockroach.

[Crock Hunter]

Taft classroom shooting stuns students, parents

A classroom shooting at Taft Union High School southwest of Bakersfield that left a 16-year-old boy in critical condition stunned parents and students.

Some compared the incident to the Newtown, Conn., shooting, and so did various public officials who hastened to issue condemnations. In a statement denouncing the gun violence, Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) said her father had attended the school.

Angela Hayden, whose 16-year-old daughter attends Taft High, said the suspected shooter allegedly threatened to kill her daughter and other students last year while they were on a school bus during a field trip to Universal Studios.

“He was telling everyone that he had a list of people who messed with him over the years and that he was going to kill him,” Hayden told The Times. She said the boy allegedly said his brother would be the first victim.

After shooting the classmate, the suspect, 16, tried to shoot a second boy and missed. Acting quickly, science teacher Ryan Heber brandishing a newly printed CWP and a Desert Eagle .44 handgun loaded with unjacketed hollow point (against manufacture's recommendation) ammunition sprang into the air parallel to the floor from behind a rack of beakers and while screaming "Die Cockroach, Die!" placed three shots into the chest of the shooter killing him instantly. Transfer student Homerfudd Dicknose III standing behind the teenaged shooter was also killed by bone and bullet fragments however all who knew Dicknose said that the loss was acceptable.

.. . .. .. ... oh wait. . .. that's not what happened ... . .. .. ..

After shooting the classmate, the suspect, 16, tried to shoot a second boy and missed before an unarmed science teacher was able to talk him down, police said.

Police officers arrived after the teacher had disarmed the shooter, and took him into custody. They seized his firearm and about 20 extra rounds in his pocket, they said.

The teacher, Ryan Heber, was struck by a pellet round to the head but not seriously injured and declined treatment, authorities said.

“If it weren’t for this teacher and his quick response, we don’t know what would have happened,” said Kern County Sheriff Donny Youngblood.

[O Really]

Point well taken, Crock, but it does bring up an interesting question. All the gun umm "enthusiasts" are advocating arming the teachers, letting posses (possi?) roam the halls and parking lots, and generally prepare to shoot it out with someone on campus. The question is, how does a kid get a 12-gauge shotgun into the school? Unlike the Newtown shooter, this kid was apparently unnoticed until he appeared in the classroom. No metal detectors at this place? No receptionist/security type person? Point being, and without regard to any part of the firearms control discussion, most security experts would look at a shoot-out inside as being the last resort after all other security measures have been breached, not the first place to jump to improve physical security in a school.

[Mad American]

Point well taken, Crock, but it does bring up an interesting question. All the gun umm "enthusiasts" are advocating arming the teachers, letting posses (possi?) roam the halls and parking lots, and generally prepare to shoot it out with someone on campus. The question is, how does a kid get a 12-gauge shotgun into the school? Unlike the Newtown shooter, this kid was apparently unnoticed until he appeared in the classroom. No metal detectors at this place? No receptionist/security type person? Point being, and without regard to any part of the firearms control discussion, most security experts would look at a shoot-out inside as being the last resort after all other security measures have been breached, not the first place to jump to improve physical security in a school.

If the teachers are well trained and qualified for the weapon they choose to carry, why not? Metal detectors, and or a receptionist/security person would have been ineffective in Newton, CT. Lanza did not just walk in through the front door! However, I am in favor of placing additional security measures such as those listed in schools IN ADDITION to allowing trained and qualified teachers to carry.

[O Really]

If the teachers are well trained and qualified for the weapon they choose to carry, why not? Metal detectors, and or a receptionist/security person would have been ineffective in Newton, CT. Lanza did not just walk in through the front door! However, I am in favor of placing additional security measures such as those listed in schools IN ADDITION to allowing trained and qualified teachers to carry.

Lanza shot out a non-reinforced glass panel close to the door, I think. Who'd the school use for security designers, Wiley Coyote?

Look, I remember when every pick-up in South Texas had a gun rack in the window and some of them were parked on school grounds. I don't actually have a problem with letting teachers with permits bring in their properly concealed weapons. I have a big problem with having teachers go around with big iron on their hips and Zimmerman wannabes wandering the yard as an integral part of school "security."

[Mad American]

If the teachers are well trained and qualified for the weapon they choose to carry, why not? Metal detectors, and or a receptionist/security person would have been ineffective in Newton, CT. Lanza did not just walk in through the front door! However, I am in favor of placing additional security measures such as those listed in schools IN ADDITION to allowing trained and qualified teachers to carry.

Lanza shot out a non-reinforced glass panel close to the door, I think. Who'd the school use for security designers, Wiley Coyote?

Look, I remember when every pick-up in South Texas had a gun rack in the window and some of them were parked on school grounds. I don't actually have a problem with letting teachers with permits bring in their properly concealed weapons. I have a big problem with having teachers go around with big iron on their hips and Zimmerman wannabes wandering the yard as an integral part of school "security."

Understood, and I would have a problem with Zimmerman wannabes as well. That is why I said well trained and qualified.

[O Really]

Understood, and I would have a problem with Zimmerman wannabes as well. That is why I said well trained and qualified.

Something like this... (training requirements for armed security guards) http://reports.oah.state.nc.us/ncac/tit ... 0.0807.pdf

And a specific license.

And a contract regarding the security work.

[Mad American]

Understood, and I would have a problem with Zimmerman wannabes as well. That is why I said well trained and qualified.

Something like this... (training requirements for armed security guards) http://reports.oah.state.nc.us/ncac/tit ... 0.0807.pdf

And a specific license.

And a contract regarding the security work.

You've got a little bit of overkill. The specific license should be the local concealed carry permit and there should be no contract regarding "security work" because they are not performing security work. They are only arming themselves in an environment where previously it was considered taboo to do so, in an effort to defend themselves and the children in their care. Training should be carried out at the following level and required annually (this was copied from your link then modified with italics):
(b) Applicants for an armed teacher firearm registration permit shall complete a basic training course for armed teachers which consists of at least 20 hours of classroom instruction including:
(1) legal limitations on the use of handguns and on the powers and authority of an armed teacher, including familiarity with rules and regulations relating to armed teachers and use of deadly force(minimum of four hours);
(2) handgun safety, including range firing procedures (minimum of one hour);
(3) handgun operation and maintenance (minimum of three hours);
(4) handgun fundamentals (minimum of eight hours); and
(5) night firing (minimum of four hours).

[O Really]

It's funny how many cons that don't trust teachers to collectively bargain think it's a good idea to arm them.

True that. But hey, at least there could be something that could be objectively measured about their performance. "I'm so sorry Ms. Slopshot, but you only scored 50 out of 100 on your marksmanship rating, and you were the slowest in the school in draw speed. We're transferring you to the barrio to improve your skills and thus continue your qualifications to teach first-graders."

[O Really]

You've got a little bit of overkill. The specific license should be the local concealed carry permit and there should be no contract regarding "security work" because they are not performing security work. They are only arming themselves in an environment where previously it was considered taboo to do so, in an effort to defend themselves and the children in their care. .

I disagree. If all you do is change the law to allow teachers who have concealed weapon permits to carry them on school grounds, then fine.

But if you expect the teachers, as a part of their employment, to show up armed and to be part of the school's security strategy, then they most certainly are engaged in "security work" just as the school "resource officer" is. The reason I would want a separate license is because security work at a school is different from a warehouse or general office building, and requires additional training. Has nothing to do with firearms specifically.

[Crock Hunter]

Training should be carried out at the following level and required annually (this was copied from your link then modified with italics):
(b) Applicants for an armed teacher firearm registration permit shall complete a basic training course for armed teachers which consists of at least 20 hours of classroom instruction including:
(1) legal limitations on the use of handguns and on the powers and authority of an armed teacher, including familiarity with rules and regulations relating to armed teachers and use of deadly force(minimum of four hours);
(2) handgun safety, including range firing procedures (minimum of one hour);
(3) handgun operation and maintenance (minimum of three hours);
(4) handgun fundamentals (minimum of eight hours); and
(5) night firing (minimum of four hours).

Not only in our schools but throughout all of society much more benefit would be realized if each and every CWP included instruction in:


(6) Understanding Multicultural Issues(minimum of ten hours)
(7) Identifying Abnormal Psychoses (minimum of twenty hours)
(8) Child & Adult Emotional Problems (minimum of ten hours)
(9) Behavior Modification (minimum of ten hours)
(10) Principles of Sociology (minimum of twenty hours)

[O Really]

Related to above...
(11) differences in guns and lighters
(12) identifying characteristics of humans as compared to deer
(13) avoiding taking fashion statements as threats
(14) learning to distinguish the burglar from the kid who says "I'm home"

[Mad American]

You've got a little bit of overkill. The specific license should be the local concealed carry permit and there should be no contract regarding "security work" because they are not performing security work. They are only arming themselves in an environment where previously it was considered taboo to do so, in an effort to defend themselves and the children in their care. .

I disagree. If all you do is change the law to allow teachers who have concealed weapon permits to carry them on school grounds, then fine.

But if you expect the teachers, as a part of their employment, to show up armed and to be part of the school's security strategy, then they most certainly are engaged in "security work" just as the school "resource officer" is. The reason I would want a separate license is because security work at a school is different from a warehouse or general office building, and requires additional training. Has nothing to do with firearms specifically.

It is not an expectation or requirement. All that need be done is to ALLOW the teachers to carry if they have participated in the training. Completely voluntary and not compensated for. I think you would surprised at who would participate. In addition I think it would eliminate some issues as well. We both know there are teachers out there that I would not want within a mile of a gun, and there are also some that we know would be very calm under pressure and careful with their actions. If the program were voluntary and required extra training I think you would get the better ones to start with. Sort of a "cream rises" situation.

[Mad American]

Not only in our schools but throughout all of society much more benefit would be realized if each and every CWP included instruction in:


(6) Understanding Multicultural Issues(minimum of ten hours)
(7) Identifying Abnormal Psychoses (minimum of twenty hours)
(8) Child & Adult Emotional Problems (minimum of ten hours)
(9) Behavior Modification (minimum of ten hours)
(10) Principles of Sociology (minimum of twenty hours)

Every CCP class focuses on the KEY point. You may use deadly force to prevent death or serious harm to yourself or another (castle doctrine excluded). However, if you can retreat or defuse the situation in any way WITHOUT using deadly force you better take it. Pretty much nullifies your issues.