Sedition

[Whack9]

It makes me angry when some of them justify Jan 6 by saying the capitol is owned by "we the people" (I understand this is from the Constitution) or something to that affect.

Well, "We the People" is every citizen of the United States, not just a select few with specific political views.


Then they argue semantics in saying we're not a democracy, but a constitutional republic decrying democracy as being mob rule. But the people who stormed the capitol building are exactly that. Let our representatives do their jobs, after all we're not a democracy governed by mob rule.

I hope tough sentences get meted out so that we the people (all of us) are given justice.

[O Really]

Yeah, and just because you're one of the thousands of "owners" of the Packers doesn't mean you get to go personally chew Rodgers out.

And they try to say it's no different from the "rioters" smashing in store fronts. Well, ignoring the fact that if a rioter is caught, he usually is charged with something, but most of them aren't stupid enough to record themselves in the act. Still, the offense is greater than the physical damage. It isn't so much that they broke in and trashed some furniture. It isn't so much that somebody(s) hit a cop or that some Congress critter was attacked. This action was intended to disrupt or stop the working of the government itself, and the fact that the attempt was unsuccessful does not change the nature of the act. Sentences so far have been way too lenient, IMNVHO. As a minimum all of the sentences should at least equal or exceed the 5 years they gave that Black woman in Texas for accidentally trying (unsuccessfully) to vote. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/electi ... l-n1262691 And BTW, isn't what she did pretty much the same as what Younkin's kid did in Virginia? Five years for him? Naaaa.

[Vrede too]

... Then they argue semantics in saying we're not a democracy, but a constitutional republic decrying democracy as being mob rule. But the people who stormed the capitol building are exactly that. Let our representatives do their jobs, after all we're not a democracy governed by mob rule....

Whenever some childish pedant whines, “our country is not a democracy,” we know for a fact that he never learned anything after a meaningless factoid in 5th grade Civics, and that he isn’t smart enough to contribute to the discussion at hand.

North Korea is a republic, too.

We live in a democratic republic and we practice democratic action all of the time. Duh.

[O Really]

Not that they would engage in rational conversation, but you could ask them if it's the Congress critter's job to vote what their constituents want, or are they elected by the constituents to use their judgement in voting on what they want. If they actually did consider that question, tiny their brains would explode because they obviously want both simultaneously.

[Vrede too]

Not that they would engage in rational conversation, but you could ask them if it's the Congress critter's job to vote what their constituents want, or are they elected by the constituents to use their judgement in voting on what they want. If they actually did consider that question, tiny their brains would explode because they obviously want both simultaneously.

Idk about the traitors and wingnuts, but I expect a balance between the two, and I get pissed off when their votes diverge too far or too often from what I want. In reality, though, we know that they will vote the way that the big donors want, thus negating all notions of a democracy or a republic. Plutocracy is what we've ended up with.

[O Really]

. In reality, though, we know that they will vote the way that the big donors want, thus negating all notions of a democracy or a republic. Plutocracy is what we've ended up with.

Aaaaand we have a winner! He who owns the most Congress critters gets his way.

But also in reality, not everyone in a District is going to want the same thing - except - it does seem that the Rep ought to be required to vote in the best interest of his/her District as a whole. Like don't vote against money to fix the broken down bridges.

[Whack9]

... Then they argue semantics in saying we're not a democracy, but a constitutional republic decrying democracy as being mob rule. But the people who stormed the capitol building are exactly that. Let our representatives do their jobs, after all we're not a democracy governed by mob rule....

Whenever some childish pedant whines, “our country is not a democracy,” we know for a fact that he never learned anything after a meaningless factoid in 5th grade Civics, and that he isn’t smart enough to contribute to the discussion at hand.

North Korea is a republic, too.

We live in a democratic republic and we practice democratic action all of the time. Duh.

Stupid people like to partake in semantical hair splitting to feel smart.

A good example is the use of the term "third world" to describe a corrupt, undeveloped country with a poor standard of living. If you use this term, almost everyone knows what you're talking about. But there's always someone that steps in and says "actually that's not what third world means" and then proceeds to explain the origin of the word.

Broadly speaking, language is used to convey concepts. If everyone agrees that the word "black" describes the color of the sky, then it's still a valid descriptor. It doesn't mean the sky is black as we believe. It's still blue. It doesn't change anything.

Likewise, when people argue and split hairs about "democracy" by arguing "actually we're a constitutional republic", they're splitting semantical hairs to feel smart in my opinion.

Whenever someone says "this is a democracy" we all (should) know it's being used as a general descriptor of a form of government where the citizens have a say in how they're governed. You can get more granular with that and talk about "constitutional republic vs whatever else", but the word "democracy" generally means what I just described. And almost everyone understands it as exactly that.

This drives me crazy.

[Vrede too]

Yep.

... Likewise, when people argue and split hairs about "democracy" by arguing "actually we're a constitutional republic", they're splitting semantical hairs to feel smart in my opinion....

And quite often as a desperate deflection from a discussion that they're not competent to contribute to.

[Ulysses]

Yeah, and just because you're one of the thousands of "owners" of the Packers doesn't mean you get to go personally chew Rodgers out.

And they try to say it's no different from the "rioters" smashing in store fronts. Well, ignoring the fact that if a rioter is caught, he usually is charged with something, but most of them aren't stupid enough to record themselves in the act. Still, the offense is greater than the physical damage. It isn't so much that they broke in and trashed some furniture. It isn't so much that somebody(s) hit a cop or that some Congress critter was attacked. This action was intended to disrupt or stop the working of the government itself, and the fact that the attempt was unsuccessful does not change the nature of the act. Sentences so far have been way too lenient, IMNVHO. As a minimum all of the sentences should at least equal or exceed the 5 years they gave that Black woman in Texas for accidentally trying (unsuccessfully) to vote. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/electi ... l-n1262691 And BTW, isn't what she did pretty much the same as what Younkin's kid did in Virginia? Five years for him? Naaaa.

[neoplacebo]

It makes me angry when some of them justify Jan 6 by saying the capitol is owned by "we the people" (I understand this is from the Constitution) or something to that affect.

Well, "We the People" is every citizen of the United States, not just a select few with specific political views.


Then they argue semantics in saying we're not a democracy, but a constitutional republic decrying democracy as being mob rule. But the people who stormed the capitol building are exactly that. Let our representatives do their jobs, after all we're not a democracy governed by mob rule.

I hope tough sentences get meted out so that we the people (all of us) are given justice.

The Electoral College was specifically designed to thwart democracy. The founding fathers did not trust the "common" man to decide what's best. And back then, the only people who could vote were white land owners. Its legacy still thwarts democracy in a lesser way even today. The founders also had a terrible fear of "mob rule" (democracy).

[Vrede too]

The Electoral College was specifically designed to thwart democracy. The founding fathers did not trust the "common" man to decide what's best. And back then, the only people who could vote were white land owners. Its legacy still thwarts democracy in a lesser way even today. The founders also had a terrible fear of "mob rule" (democracy).

The Electoral College was also an anti-democratic compromise offered to slavers. Black were counted as 3/5 of a person for census/elector purposes, but they were not able to vote in the elections where they were being "represented".

[GoCubsGo]

The Electoral College was specifically designed to thwart democracy. The founding fathers did not trust the "common" man to decide what's best. And back then, the only people who could vote were white land owners. Its legacy still thwarts democracy in a lesser way even today. The founders also had a terrible fear of "mob rule" (democracy).

The Electoral College was also an anti-democratic compromise offered to slavers. Black were counted as 3/5 of a person for census/elector purposes, but they were not able to vote in the elections where they were being "represented".

Also they were all petrified that New York and Philadelphia would elect all the presidents.

[neoplacebo]

The Electoral College was specifically designed to thwart democracy. The founding fathers did not trust the "common" man to decide what's best. And back then, the only people who could vote were white land owners. Its legacy still thwarts democracy in a lesser way even today. The founders also had a terrible fear of "mob rule" (democracy).

The Electoral College was also an anti-democratic compromise offered to slavers. Black were counted as 3/5 of a person for census/elector purposes, but they were not able to vote in the elections where they were being "represented".

Lindsey Graham and Ted Cruz and Rand Paul, among others, are modern day incarnations of the founding fathers. Especially Rand, who famously got his ass kicked by his neighbor. The whole thing gave Rand a new dedication to hatred and fear of mob rule. And he only had to deal with a mob of one.

[Vrede too]

Also they were all petrified that New York and Philadelphia would elect all the presidents.

Almost all POTUSes have come from populous states and campaigning happens in swing states, whether populous or not.

[Vrede too]

... Especially Rand, who famously got his ass kicked by his neighbor. The whole thing gave Rand a new dedication to hatred and fear of mob rule. And he only had to deal with a mob of one.

I would be mortified forever if that happened to me.

[Vrede too]

Trump aides Stephen Miller, Kayleigh McEnany subpoenaed by House panel investigating Jan. 6

Good. Testimony or jail = win/win.

Or more likely = wtf, why didn't anyone go to jail

Could be. A lot of it will be up to Garland. Idk what to think of him yet.

Former Trump adviser Steve Bannon indicted by federal grand jury for contempt of Congress

Former Trump adviser Steve Bannon was indicted by a federal grand jury Friday, charged with contempt of Congress for refusing to answer questions from the House Committee investigating the Jan. 6 Capitol riot.

The indictment is a first. No one has ever been prosecuted before for contempt of Congress when executive privilege was asserted. The past cases involved defendants whose testimony was sought regarding their government service. Bannon, by contrast, left his White House job in 2017, well before the period of interest to the House committee.

He was charged Friday with two contempt counts — one for refusing to appear for a deposition and another for declining to produce documents requested by the committee.

If convicted, Bannon could face up to a year behind bars and a fine of up to $100,000.

Lock him up!

... Attorney General Merrick Garland, in a brief statement, said, "Since my first day in office, I have promised Justice Department employees that together we would show the American people by word and deed that the department adheres to the rule of law, follows the facts and the law, and pursues equal justice under the law. Today's charges reflect the department’s steadfast commitment to these principles.”

The fact that the Justice Department was willing to charge him with criminal contempt, despite an assertion of executive privilege, may help persuade other reluctant witnesses to agree to cooperate with the committee's investigation.

The committee has subpoenaed 16 former Trump White House officials for testimony, documents or both.

The House voted Oct. 27 to find Bannon in contempt after he declined to provide the Jan. 6 committee with documents and testimony. Committee members cited comments Bannon made on his radio program the day before the riot.

"All hell is going to break loose tomorrow," he said on the program.

The House panel said the statement suggested that "he had some foreknowledge about extreme events that would occur the next day."

... The extent of a former president's ability to invoke executive privilege has never been firmly established. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia has scheduled oral arguments for Nov. 30 on the issue, in the dispute between Trump and the National Archives over scores of Trump White House documents sought by the Jan. 6 committee.

Obtaining a conviction for any crime requires proof of acting with improper intent, and Bannon may have a strong defense in arguing that he was acting on the advice of his lawyer not to testify. Some federal courts have ruled that good faith reliance on the advice of counsel is a complete defense in a criminal contempt action.

Like anyone charged with a crime, Bannon will now go through the normal process in federal court. He will be arraigned and will enter a plea. Unless he pleads guilty, the judge will set a trial date. A conviction, however, would not require him to testify before the House committee. It would simply constitute his punishment for refusing to do so.

The record of successful prosecutions for contempt of Congress is a slim one. The authority was widely invoked during the anti-communist hearings of the 1950s, but many of those cases ended either in acquittal or dismissal on appeal.

The last Justice Department prosecution of a contempt referral came in 1983, during the Superfund investigation in the Reagan administration. Former EPA official Rita Lavelle was charged with contempt but her case, too, ended in acquittal.

Ut-oh.

[Vrede too]

... And they try to say it's no different from the "rioters" smashing in store fronts. Well, ignoring the fact that if a rioter is caught, he usually is charged with something, but most of them aren't stupid enough to record themselves in the act. Still, the offense is greater than the physical damage. It isn't so much that they broke in and trashed some furniture. It isn't so much that somebody(s) hit a cop or that some Congress critter was attacked. This action was intended to disrupt or stop the working of the government itself, and the fact that the attempt was unsuccessful does not change the nature of the act. Sentences so far have been way too lenient, IMNVHO....

Trump-Donating Ex-CEO Who Threw A Chair During Capitol Riot Sentenced To Prison

A former CEO and Donald Trump donor who stormed the U.S. Capitol and threw a chair in the direction of police officers during the Jan. 6 attack was sentenced to 30 days incarceration on Friday.

Bradley Rukstales, 53, of Inverness, Illinois, and the former CEO of data analytics firm Cogensia, was sentenced by U.S. District Judge Carl Nichols. In the 2020 election cycle, Rukstales gave more than $25,000 to then-President Trump’s campaign and Republican committees, according to The Associated Press.

Rukstales was one of a small number of Capitol riot defendants who were actually arrested on Jan. 6. He was taken into custody inside the Capitol complex after a group of rioters chased officers from the Capitol crypt (underneath the Capitol Rotunda) down into the Capitol Visitor Center.

In a statement after his arrest, Rukstales described himself as a “peaceful and law-abiding citizen” who condemned the “violence and destruction that took place in Washington.” But federal prosecutors pointed to surveillance footage that showed Rukstales, less than 30 seconds after rioters tossed chairs at officers down a staircase, tossing a chair in the direction of a line of officers.

“As Rukstales descended the stairwell to the CVC ― less than 30 seconds after besieged officers were forced to hastily retreat down it ― chairs that had been thrown at those officers lay strewn about the floor. There were signs of a violent riot everywhere, and he willingly joined it,” federal prosecutors wrote. “He picked up one of the chairs and belligerently hurled it in the direction of where the officers had fallen back.” ...

United States District Judge for the District of Columbia Carl J. Nichols was appointed by Dolt .45, but the article doesn't say whether 30 days incarceration was part of the plea bargain or whether there's any time served. Of course, the judge could have insisted on a stricter sentence, but he has ruled against 45SHOLE at least 3 times.

[Vrede too]

It makes me angry when some of them justify Jan 6 by saying the capitol is owned by "we the people" (I understand this is from the Constitution) or something to that affect.

Well, "We the People" is every citizen of the United States, not just a select few with specific political views.

Then they argue semantics in saying we're not a democracy, but a constitutional republic decrying democracy as being mob rule. But the people who stormed the capitol building are exactly that. Let our representatives do their jobs, after all we're not a democracy governed by mob rule.

I hope tough sentences get meted out so that we the people (all of us) are given justice.

A Capitol rioter who declared 'Civil War is coming' just avoided the prison sentence prosecutors wanted

United States District Judge Carl J. Nichols was appointed by Putin's Agent Orange. Rasha N. Abual-Ragheb should have been locked up and then deported to Jordan or Lebanon.

He Attacked Cops At The Capitol Riot. Then He Went To Air Force Basic Training.

The FBI has arrested a supporter of former President Donald Trump who sprayed cops with pepper spray, smashed out a window and broke into the U.S. Capitol before he went to basic training for the U.S. Air Force.

Aiden Bilyard was arrested in Raleigh, North Carolina, according to court records. He faces a host of charges, including felony civil disorder, assaulting officers with a dangerous weapon, destruction of government property, entering and remaining in a restricted building with a deadly or dangerous weapon, disorderly conduct with a deadly or dangerous weapon, and several other misdemeanors.

After being identified by online sleuths operating under the “Sedition Hunters” banner who had nicknamed him #HarvardSweats, Bilyard was interviewed by the FBI at Lackland Air Force Base near San Antonio, Texas, back in August.

Heroes and patriots, see below.

“At the time, BILYARD was attending basic training for the United States Air Force but has since separated from the Air Force and moved back home to Cary, North Carolina,” an FBI special agent wrote in an affidavit unsealed Tueday.

I'm sooo proud.

The FBI relied on public Facebook posts by Bilyard’s mother that showed him wearing the same Harvard sweatshirt he wore to the Capitol to help seal the case against their Bilyard. So did online sleuths, who noted her posts about Bilyard enlisting in the U.S. Air Force.

Idiots.

The FBI has made more than 650 arrests in connection with the Jan. 6 attack, roughly one-fourth of the total number of individuals who engaged in chargeable criminal conduct that day. The FBI is still looking for more than 350 individuals who engaged in violence, including more than 250 members of the pro-Trump mob who assaulted cops.

Ah 2600 or so total. I don't think I've seen a number for the seditionists before.

‘Sedition Hunters’: Meet The Online Sleuths Aiding The FBI’s Capitol Manhunt
Six months and 500 arrests into the Jan. 6 probe, a motley crew of online sleuths is generating leads, making connections, and keeping the feds on their toes.

An e-posse . It's a shame that some of them feel that the FBI has not been responsive enough.

Trump Fan Who Organized Buses To D.C. Sentenced To 60 Days In Capitol Riot Case

... Frank Scavo, who pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge in September, organized buses that took about 200 people to Washington, D.C., on Jan. 6. His plea agreement included a cooperation provision, and Scavo turned over videos that he filmed inside the Capitol the day of the riot.

Nice.

“He should have known better [than] to have entered the Capitol,” Assistant U.S. Attorney Seth Meinero, a federal prosecutor, told Judge Royce Lamberth, saying that Scavo had a “front-row seat” to the chaos....

Prosecutors, in their sentencing memo, said that Scavo posted a political cartoon on Facebook that showed him driving a “Sedition Express” bus to D.C., and that he described himself in comments as a “Capitol tour guide.”

Note that he posted this confession a month after the insurrection. Idiot.

Federal authorities had requested a prison sentence of 14 days for Scavo....

Senior judge Royce Lamberth, a Reagan appointee, gave him more than 4 times as much time.

[Vrede too]

If you're a wingnut it's not a good idea to go to a riot with your blabbermouth mommy.

Trumper Pleads Guilty After His Mom Bragged About His Capitol Riot Antics On Facebook



34 years old, married and wearing a "Fuck your feelings” sweatshirt. Seriously?

'Embarrassed' Capitol Rioter Who Wore '(F**k) Your Feelings' Sweatshirt Sentenced

30 days behind bars may seem light, but it is "more than twice as long as the two weeks of incarceration requested by federal prosecutors."

... (U.S. District Judge Amy Berman) Jackson said that Peterson’s own words, in which Peterson bragged about his conduct on Jan. 6, had led to her decision. She particularly focused on his comment that he “had fun lol” on Jan. 6.

“The ‘lol’ particularly stuck in my craw, because as I have hope you’ve come to understand, nothing about Jan. 6 was funny,” Jackson said. Officers were injured, people lost their lives, property was damaged and stolen, Jackson said.

“It was sickening, it was horrifying, and it was utterly inconsistent with what this country stands for, and I’m concerned that there’s an ongoing harm to what our democracy is supposed to be,” Jackson said, “and we don’t know if it’s replicable or not, because we really don’t know yet if things will return to the way they were, or if a disorderly, violent reaction to elections is now an acceptable option to a large segment of the population.” ...

[Vrede too]

Yeah, and just because you're one of the thousands of "owners" of the Packers doesn't mean you get to go personally chew Rodgers out.

And they try to say it's no different from the "rioters" smashing in store fronts. Well, ignoring the fact that if a rioter is caught, he usually is charged with something, but most of them aren't stupid enough to record themselves in the act. Still, the offense is greater than the physical damage. It isn't so much that they broke in and trashed some furniture. It isn't so much that somebody(s) hit a cop or that some Congress critter was attacked. This action was intended to disrupt or stop the working of the government itself, and the fact that the attempt was unsuccessful does not change the nature of the act. Sentences so far have been way too lenient, IMNVHO. As a minimum all of the sentences should at least equal or exceed the 5 years they gave that Black woman in Texas for accidentally trying (unsuccessfully) to vote. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/electi ... l-n1262691 And BTW, isn't what she did pretty much the same as what Younkin's kid did in Virginia? Five years for him? Naaaa.

Tonight:

CNN Special Report
Assault on Democracy: The Roots of Trump's Insurrection
Episode 19
10:00 PM EST ON CNN • CC

CNN's Drew Griffin meets and talks with Jan. 6 rioters, relatives of those now in prison or who died that day, congressional staffers, capitol police, and others.