Slavery By Another Name

[GoCubsGo]

This thread should make it clear - as if it wasn't before - that Ulysses has no interest in discussion without adversarial positions. Most all participants in this thread have contributed something related to the original article Ulysses posted. The starting point was the PBS show regarding how the old "official" slavery may have ended, but slavery in other forms continued to and still exists in forms such as indentured servitude, forced labor, human trafficking, etc. After a couple pages or so of ribbing over Ulysses intending to "record" a streaming show, he changed the topic from "things that happen now that could be called slavery" to "whose ancestors owned slaves." And kept changing the parameters as answers came in. It appeared that participants answered with what they knew, which was little. Ulysses seemed determined to get somebody - anybody - to say "my g-g-g-great grandfather was a slave owner. For what reason, who knows. When participants went back to the original topic - "things related to slavery," Ulysses further tightened the parameters. Now it has to be "slavery" in "states" and apparently must relate only to black people being slaves in the states that became the confederacy. Just can't take "yes" for an answer, I guess.

Thank you for a clear and concise summary.

[billy.pilgrim]

OKfine. I'll take one for the team. Turns out my when my 3-or4-G grandfather arrived from Canada, he met and wed a southern belle who had become a refugee of civil war aftermath. She was the grand daughter of a major slave owner and apparently used some of the slaves as sex toys before being banished. I'm personally mortified and don't know how I can look at myself in the mirror with her awful genes lying around somewhere in my body.

M'Kay?

https://www.businessinsider.com/america ... ves-2019-9

"On top of the Capitol sits the Statue of Freedom, an important statue of a 19-foot bronze woman holding a sword and a laurel wreath. It was made by a slave named Philip Reid.
Reid was paid $1.25 a day to cast the statue. He was chosen because no one else had the skill to make a bronze statue out of a plaster cast"


"Wall Street was named after an actual wall, which slaves built in 1653. There also used to be a slave market in Wall Street that was one of the largest in the country in the 1700s."


"Harvard Law School, built in 1817, was funded by Isaac Royall Jr., a slave owner. A lot of his wealth came from the African slaves he had working on sugar plantations and farms."


"In 1838, Jesuit priests, who were the founders of Georgetown University, sold 272 slaves, and used the money, which today is worth about $3.3 million, to pay off debts and build its campus."


But don't forget, it was those other brown people that murdered Jesus. If we hate on them enough, we can ignore our embarrassing slave owning days

[Ulysses]

This thread should make it clear - as if it wasn't before - that Ulysses has no interest in discussion without adversarial positions. Most all participants in this thread have contributed something related to the original article Ulysses posted. The starting point was the PBS show regarding how the old "official" slavery may have ended, but slavery in other forms continued to and still exists in forms such as indentured servitude, forced labor, human trafficking, etc. After a couple pages or so of ribbing over Ulysses intending to "record" a streaming show, he changed the topic from "things that happen now that could be called slavery" to "whose ancestors owned slaves." And kept changing the parameters as answers came in. It appeared that participants answered with what they knew, which was little. Ulysses seemed determined to get somebody - anybody - to say "my g-g-g-great grandfather was a slave owner. For what reason, who knows. When participants went back to the original topic - "things related to slavery," Ulysses further tightened the parameters. Now it has to be "slavery" in "states" and apparently must relate only to black people being slaves in the states that became the confederacy. Just can't take "yes" for an answer, I guess.

Thank you for a clear and concise summary.

As I pointed out, it was an incomplete and quite biased summary.

I have corrected it, but I'm certain you will ignore the truth, as usual.

[Ulysses]

To repeat:


For the first pages of this thread, you folks did all you could to deny and deflect the topic away from slavery, to a completely irrelevant discussion of... guess what? ROKU!!! What was up with that?

It continued to deteriorate into a discussion of irrelevant distractions, so, yes, I tried to re-focus the thread into whose ancestors owned slaves. Why? Because I was fucking tired of the flippant and holier than thou attitude expressed about slavery. That's why. Sorry if that was uncomfortable for you. And then the deflection and denial started in earnest: slavery in New England, specifically that state of my birth, Connecticut. Or about slavery in Eastern Europe. None of which is really relevant.

[GoCubsGo]

To repeat:


For the first pages of this thread, you folks did all you could to deny and deflect the topic away from slavery, to a completely irrelevant discussion of... guess what? ROKU!!! What was up with that?

We always make fun of your antiquated DVD obsession and we always will. Best way to stop that is not mention it again.

It continued to deteriorate into a discussion of irrelevant distractions, so, yes, I tried to re-focus the thread into whose ancestors owned slaves. Why? Because I was fucking tired of the flippant and holier than thou attitude expressed about slavery.

Where was that?


That's why. Sorry if that was uncomfortable for you.
Who was uncomfortable? The only one seemed to be you as you were so defensive.


And then the deflection and denial started in earnest: slavery in New England, specifically that state of my birth, Connecticut. Or about slavery in Eastern Europe. None of which is really relevant.

Just responding to your comments pre edits.

[Vrede too]

This thread should make it clear - as if it wasn't before - that Ulysses has no interest in discussion without adversarial positions....

OK, now you're going over the edge....

( )

To repeat: ...

( )

Ding ding ding. Will everyone that bet on O Really please return to the window to collect your winnings.

Speech, speech!

[O Really]

Ulysses is lucky he lives in northern California close to a place Mark Twain described as "The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco."
With skin that thin, if he lived where there was much sunshine he'd be a crispy critter.

[Ulysses]

To repeat:


For the first pages of this thread, you folks did all you could to deny and deflect the topic away from slavery, to a completely irrelevant discussion of... guess what? ROKU!!! What was up with that?

We always make fun of your antiquated DVD obsession and we always will. Best way to stop that is not mention it again.

I didn't mention DVD. I only said I would record it. Do try to keep up.

It continued to deteriorate into a discussion of irrelevant distractions, so, yes, I tried to re-focus the thread into whose ancestors owned slaves. Why? Because I was fucking tired of the flippant and holier than thou attitude expressed about slavery.

Where was that?

Numerous posts on BRD.

That's why. Sorry if that was uncomfortable for you.
Who was uncomfortable? The only one seemed to be you as you were so defensive.


You were being defensive, and abusive.


And then the deflection and denial started in earnest: slavery in New England, specifically that state of my birth, Connecticut. Or about slavery in Eastern Europe. None of which is really relevant.

Just responding to your comments pre edits.

That makes no sense.

[Ulysses]

Ulysses is lucky he lives in northern California close to a place Mark Twain described as "The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco."
With skin that thin, if he lived where there was much sunshine he'd be a crispy critter.

If you knew anything about this area, you'd know that Twain was specifically talking about San Francisco, which is usually about 10 degrees cooler than the surrounding Bay Area in the summer.

And then you go on to a nonsensical and gratuitous personal attack about my supposed sensitivity to sunlight. In fact I have spent a lot of time in the sun. Including the desert in August. And Central America. My skin was intact. Of course I'm smarter than you and I wear sunscreen and proper clothing as appropriate.

Good thing you went into law instead of comedy, because you suck at humor.

[billy.pilgrim]

Ulysses is lucky he lives in northern California close to a place Mark Twain described as "The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco."
With skin that thin, if he lived where there was much sunshine he'd be a crispy critter.

Useless Thinskin

[Ulysses]

Silly HillBilly

[O Really]

Literalist.
Sign of low imagination/creativity.

[neoplacebo]

I know that guy.

[billy.pilgrim]

Useless Thinskin explained that all the Slavs were slaves, therefore his ancestors were victims of slavers.

Or could it be that they were the slavers

"During the time of Slavic expansion, they attacked the Byzantium Empire in the Balkans, destroyed Greek places and took inhabitants as slaves. Historians, such as the famous Soviet and Russian researcher Igor Froyanov, emphasized that many slaves were taken by the Slavs. As shown in sources mentioned by the historian, the slaves of this era in this part of the world were mainly Greek.

According to the prominent Byzantine historian Procopius of Caesarea, every year starting from the early period of Emperor Justinian’s reign (527 AD), the Slavs raided and took many captives and turned the land into a “Scythian desert.” Greek writers depicted the Slavs as those “who cannot be forced into slavery or subjugated in their own country.” Hence, it might be hard to imagine how the word “Slav” originated from “slaves.”

Simply homonyms?
One starts to wonder how then to explain this similarity"


He should confess how many slaves his ancestors owned.

[Vrede too]

Useless Thinskin ... should confess how many slaves his ancestors owned.

Remember Russell Crowe as Maximus in Gladiator ? A direct ancestor of Useless owned the inspiration for Maximus. Bastard.

Russell Crowe would kick Useless ass like they were neighbors.

[O Really]

A literalist reads things exactly as they are written, without considering context. S/he does not grasp analogies or metaphor, and usually would lack in humour. Partly because of this, literalists are easy to take offence and often misunderstand intent. Since a literalist does read words exactly as written, s/he does not usually acknowledge any error. "You said it was raining cats and dogs. There are no cats or dogs falling from the sky. You are wrong or you lie."

[Ulysses]

Silly Billy is sadly deluded.

I was limiting my discussion to AMERICAN slaveholders, so as far as I'm concerned, Silly Billy is off topic.

BTW, does the P in Billy.P stand for "Prick"?

[Vrede too]

viewtopic.php?p=155031#p155031

Cower, antisemitic Useless, cower.

Please link to a post I made where I attempted to guilt anybody for "the possibility of having European ancestors who may or may not have benefitted from slavery"...

Bearing in mind that I specifically limited my remarks to American ancestors.

You changed your remarks to specifically American ancestors after billy.pilgrim, O Really and even you responded to what you initially posted.
viewtopic.php?p=151382#p151382

OK, show of hands:

How many here have ancestors who owned slaves?

Me, probably. My mum's side of the family is from England, historically York, which was taken over by Vikings in the 800's, apparently accounting for the bit of Scandinavian DNA in my profile. Vikings owned slaves, apparently some Viking(s) had his/their way with my grand9-mom, so I suppose I had ancestors with slaves. Or not, I don't really know. But nobody I know about was connected to American slavery. Given the degree to which slavery was present in the world, if you go back far enough it might be difficult to find anybody whose tree didn't have either slave-owners, slaves, or both.

Slavs had serfs.

Yes but didn't one of Czars free the serfs?

Looked it up. Tsar Alexander made a speech to that effect in 1856, and by 1861 the serfs were emancipated.

Since my grandparents arrived in the USA about 40 years after that, and they were teens, I doubt they were ever serfs. They then proceeded to have something like 11 kids, all of whom lived to adulthood. I actually met my grandmother. I was very young and all I remember is she held me in her arms for about a 10 seconds. I gather she was a hard, no-nonsense woman. She'd toss a misbehaving kid across the room. So I guess I was lucky, LOL. My grandfather severely injured his arm in a Pennsylvania steel mill; the family photo shows evidence of a misshapen limb.

My Quebequois grandfather wound up in Rhode Island as a salesman for a gumball company (Ford). I remember the gum.

Busted trying to deceive, again. Lie, Useless, lie.

Thx, I honestly didn't care enough to go back and find it.

I wonder who we could talk to at Merriam Webster to get the definition of Ulysses amended to mean 'delusional lying massive failure'?

( )

Cower, Useless, cower.

[Ulysses]

Ignoring V2 is bliss.

[Vrede too]

Cower, Useless, cower.

( )

Good boy.