The car thread ...

[neoplacebo]

That sounds like a good deal. Are the Falkens the same high performance design as your Tiger Paw? Or are you close to ready for a full set anyway? We wouldn't want to think of you careening around the mountain curves trying to re-live the "Thunder Road" drive on mismatched tires.

I've not seen a photo of the new tire. But I do know that it's speed rating is "W" instead of "Z" like the Tiger Paw. On the estimate it shows Falken ZIEX 960AS so as long as they don't have a three inch white stripe on them or are some weird color I guess I'll take em. Not really ready for a full set; these only have 14K miles. I got over 50K miles on the previous set of Tiger Paws.

[Ulysses]

Probably a good idea to keep the different brand tires on same axle. That is, two Tiger Paws in front, Two Falkens in rear, or vice verse. As for the speed ratings, sounds like your new ones are rated lower (?) than the old ones:

Speed Rating Maximum Speed
W Up to 168 mph
Y Up to 186 mph
Z 149 mph and over

But I doubt you plan on going over 100 mph anyway. Although who knows, one day you might have to beat a hasty retreat from Sheriff Sam Drucker.

[O Really]

Funny factoid for anyone who, like me, didn't know this. But in Montana, maybe among other places, if a tire store is installing only two tires, they're required by law to put them on the rear. I could have understood maybe having to put them on the drive wheels, but why the rear? Turns out some legislative geeny-yus decided that if you are headed toward an ice patch, the best tires should be the last ones to hit it and, maybe, get better traction before you get to the patch. Probably the same guy who decided that Oregon drivers couldn't safely fill up their own tanks in cities, even though people everywhere else (except NJ) and all over the state after 10:00 p.m. do it safely hundreds of thousands of times a day.

[GoCubsGo]

Funny factoid for anyone who, like me, didn't know this. But in Montana, maybe among other places, if a tire store is installing only two tires, they're required by law to put them on the rear. I could have understood maybe having to put them on the drive wheels, but why the rear? Turns out some legislative geeny-yus decided that if you are headed toward an ice patch, the best tires should be the last ones to hit it and, maybe, get better traction before you get to the patch. Probably the same guy who decided that Oregon drivers couldn't safely fill up their own tanks in cities, even though people everywhere else (except NJ) and all over the state after 10:00 p.m. do it safely hundreds of thousands of times a day.

So then can you pay an extra ten bucks and have your tires rotated?

[O Really]

So then can you pay an extra ten bucks and have your tires rotated?

Probably.
Think how stupid it is, though, to be required to mount the new tires on the back on a car that has front wheel drive and half-worn tires there, and after you've mounted them on the back as the law requires, you can "rotate" them to the front before even taking the car off the jacks.

Tire mounting in Five Easy Pieces:

Bobby : I'd like a plain omelette, no potatoes, tomatoes instead, a cup of coffee and wheat toast.

Waitress : [points at his menu] No substitutions.

Bobby : What do you mean? You don't have any tomatoes?

Waitress : Only what's on the menu. You can have a number two, a plain omelette, it comes with cottage fries and rolls.

Bobby : Yeah, I know what it comes with, but it's not what I want.

Waitress : Well, I'll come back when you make up your mind

Bobby : Wait a minute, I have made up my mind. I'd like a plain omelette, no potatoes on the plate, a cup of coffee and a side order of wheat toast.

Waitress : I'm sorry, we don't have any side orders of toast. I'll give you an English muffin or a coffee roll.

Bobby : What do you mean you don't make side orders of toast? You make sandwiches, don't you?

Waitress : Would you like to talk to the manager?

Palm Apodaca : Hey, mac...

Bobby : Shut up.

[to the waitress]

Bobby : You've got bread and a toaster of some kind?

Waitress : I don't make the rules.

Bobby : OK, I'll make it as easy for you as I can. I'd like an omelette, plain, and a chicken salad sandwich on wheat toast, no mayonnaise, no butter, no lettuce, and a cup of coffee.

Waitress : A number two, a chicken salad sand. Hold the butter, the lettuce, and the mayonnaise, and a cup of coffee. Anything else?

Bobby : Yeah, now all you have to do is hold the chicken, bring me the toast, give me a cheque for the chicken salad sandwich, and you haven't broken any rules.

[billy.pilgrim]

Funny factoid for anyone who, like me, didn't know this. But in Montana, maybe among other places, if a tire store is installing only two tires, they're required by law to put them on the rear. I could have understood maybe having to put them on the drive wheels, but why the rear? Turns out some legislative geeny-yus decided that if you are headed toward an ice patch, the best tires should be the last ones to hit it and, maybe, get better traction before you get to the patch. Probably the same guy who decided that Oregon drivers couldn't safely fill up their own tanks in cities, even though people everywhere else (except NJ) and all over the state after 10:00 p.m. do it safely hundreds of thousands of times a day.

So then can you pay an extra ten bucks and have your tires rotated?

Free rotations for the life of the tire.

I've always bought in twos and put the new ones on the front until about 5 years ago my friendy tire dealer mechanic (she's a lot like Mona Lisa Vito except for looks) who has done us right for almost 20 years convinced me that I should put the new ones on the rear.

[Ulysses]

I've always bought tires in sets of four (five once when I rotated the spare into the mix. Now most spares, if any, are minimal tires and wouldn't do for regular driving for very long). And then there are the one direction only tires to contend with. Never had a single or two tires fail due to poor construction. But there's still a chance.

[neoplacebo]

Funny factoid for anyone who, like me, didn't know this. But in Montana, maybe among other places, if a tire store is installing only two tires, they're required by law to put them on the rear. I could have understood maybe having to put them on the drive wheels, but why the rear? Turns out some legislative geeny-yus decided that if you are headed toward an ice patch, the best tires should be the last ones to hit it and, maybe, get better traction before you get to the patch. Probably the same guy who decided that Oregon drivers couldn't safely fill up their own tanks in cities, even though people everywhere else (except NJ) and all over the state after 10:00 p.m. do it safely hundreds of thousands of times a day.

It sounds like one of those "small government" Republican things. Especially when you consider that no matter how much tread you have, ice don't play that. Ice also don't play 4 wheel drive.

[neoplacebo]

Rod Stewart goes on his road to fix potholes that punish his Ferrari.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/wat ... 29725.html

[Ulysses]

Ice --> Chains

[Ulysses]

Rod Stewart goes on his road to fix potholes that punish his Ferrari.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/wat ... 29725.html

I wonder what language he's speaking...

[O Really]

It sounds like one of those "small government" Republican things. Especially when you consider that no matter how much tread you have, ice don't play that. Ice also don't play 4 wheel drive.

You'd think they'd know that in Montana, wouldn't you? But then, hey, it's Montana.

[GoCubsGo]

It sounds like one of those "small government" Republican things. Especially when you consider that no matter how much tread you have, ice don't play that. Ice also don't play 4 wheel drive.

You'd think they'd know that in Montana, wouldn't you? But then, hey, it's Montana.

Still trying to figure out the logic. Most wear comes on the front tires.

[O Really]

Still trying to figure out the logic. Most wear comes on the front tires.

Well, my source of information wasn't the law directly, so it might have been fuzzy. Anyway, maybe it wasn't ice patches, maybe it was water. Here's what Goodyear says:

Installing Tires on the Rear Axle
When tires are replaced in pairs, the new tires should always be installed on the rear axle, and the partially worn tires should be moved to the front. Driving with new tires on the rear axle can help the vehicle to maintain control on wet roads because the tires with deeper treads are more likely to resist hydroplaning.

When front tires have less tread than the tires on the rear axle, the vehicle is generally considered easier to control, since sliding would likely be the result of an understeer –which is easier for the driver to control by decreasing throttle. If worn tires are placed on the rear axle and a slide occurs, it’s likely the result of an oversteer (where the rear of the vehicle continues to move straight ahead). Oversteering is generally harder to recover from and decreasing throttle may actually amplify the negative effects of the oversteer.

[O Really]

I may have been misinformed about it being Montana law. Clearly it was the policy of the tire shop, and they blamed it on the law. But I can't find any actual cite for it.

[billy.pilgrim]

Still trying to figure out the logic. Most wear comes on the front tires.

Well, my source of information wasn't the law directly, so it might have been fuzzy. Anyway, maybe it wasn't ice patches, maybe it was water. Here's what Goodyear says:

Installing Tires on the Rear Axle
When tires are replaced in pairs, the new tires should always be installed on the rear axle, and the partially worn tires should be moved to the front. Driving with new tires on the rear axle can help the vehicle to maintain control on wet roads because the tires with deeper treads are more likely to resist hydroplaning.

When front tires have less tread than the tires on the rear axle, the vehicle is generally considered easier to control, since sliding would likely be the result of an understeer –which is easier for the driver to control by decreasing throttle. If worn tires are placed on the rear axle and a slide occurs, it’s likely the result of an oversteer (where the rear of the vehicle continues to move straight ahead). Oversteering is generally harder to recover from and decreasing throttle may actually amplify the negative effects of the oversteer.

Looks like my Mona Lisa Vito was right.

[neoplacebo]

Still trying to figure out the logic. Most wear comes on the front tires.

Well, my source of information wasn't the law directly, so it might have been fuzzy. Anyway, maybe it wasn't ice patches, maybe it was water. Here's what Goodyear says:

Installing Tires on the Rear Axle
When tires are replaced in pairs, the new tires should always be installed on the rear axle, and the partially worn tires should be moved to the front. Driving with new tires on the rear axle can help the vehicle to maintain control on wet roads because the tires with deeper treads are more likely to resist hydroplaning.

When front tires have less tread than the tires on the rear axle, the vehicle is generally considered easier to control, since sliding would likely be the result of an understeer –which is easier for the driver to control by decreasing throttle. If worn tires are placed on the rear axle and a slide occurs, it’s likely the result of an oversteer (where the rear of the vehicle continues to move straight ahead). Oversteering is generally harder to recover from and decreasing throttle may actually amplify the negative effects of the oversteer.

Well, a generic statement like "in pairs, the new tires should always be installed on the rear axle" is stupid and wrong. With my car, which is very light in the rear, that statement is opposite what should be done. There is probably twice as much weight on my front tires than on the rear ones. On a wet road, whether I have brand new tires or bald ones, if I stomp down on the accelerator, the rear end of my car will start sliding to one side; usually the right side even though it has posi traction. I've had more than a few front wheel drive cars and have experienced near loss of control if suddenly hitting a moderate depth of water. And besides all that, the front tires are the ones that control the car; the rear just follows the leader.

[Ulysses]

The advice to put new tires on the rear axle appears to be irrespective of which axle contains the drive wheels. After some thought I conclude that this is the best approach, even for front wheel drive cars (which may well be the majority of new cars today). I am also thinking that the front of most cars contains the engine, which puts significantly more weight over the front tires than on the rear tires. Thus to avoid fishtailing on slick roads, the newest tires should be placed on the rear where they will do the most good.

I don't know if a rear-engine car like a vintage VW would change that recommendation. It might, but those are relatively rare these days anyway. Plus there is still the matter of the steering mechanism in the front being available to address slippage issues, and few if any vehicles have steerable rear wheels.

[Vrede too]

neoplacebo, I think your tire was spiked by one of the cops you harass.

My screen name on BRD is Ulysses. Please use that in future.

Otherwise I'd be inclined to agree with O Really that the cause of your tire failure is from poor driving.

Poor Useless. Useless whining is useless.

(signature: obsessed butthurt )

Awww. , Useless. So much for "Ignored". You fail again. Plus, Useless, you've been busted too many times for anyone to believe you're not reading my posts, anyhow. It's just your excuse for cowering. Awww.

He wasn't addressing his comment to you - he was addressing "useless" another regular poster on this forum. And when you address "Voldemort" you aren't referring to Vrede.

And I said or implied nothing about poor driving. Potholes don't care.

[Ulysses]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Go away asshole.