Separation of Church and State

[GoCubsGo]

Neo's peeps leading the way!


Edit: guess they're followers.

[Vrede too]

Neo's peeps leading the way!

Edit: guess they're followers.

As O Really says there's a Godwin's Law risk, but govt openly IDing nonbelievers smacks pretty directly of Nazism.

[O Really]

I'm not a fan of the "In God We Trust" plates, but it's pretty hard to argue strongly that a phrase that's one of the US mottos, printed on money, etc. has no place on state-issued licence plates, when it's chosen voluntarily.

What's missing from the original vid, though, is any real evidence that the state itself has or intends to discriminate against those who choose the "heathen" plate or to offer favor to those who "trust God." I don't doubt there are people who will take pride in the number of "Godly" or "Heathen" plates in their neighborhood/town, but I don't see any actual state-sponsored evil YET.

As I recall, Florida had two versions of "standard" plate in addition to dozens of alternates. You could get one with the county name, or one that said "Sunshine State." Sometime they added the "God" plate as one of the standards. 20ish states offer the choice.

Looks like more than half Tennessee drivers have selected the "God" plate so far. Shouldn't surprise anyone.
https://www.wbir.com/article/news/local ... e0b2c86990

"Pew considers 73 percent of Tennessee adults highly religious – 78 percent say they believe in God with absolute certainty, while 51 percent attend weekly worship services. Of Tennessee adults, 81 percent are Christian, 14 percent are unaffiliated with any religion and about 3 percent are non-Christian faiths."

[neoplacebo]

If they had one with "In God We Bust" I'd get it. My plate I have now is good until the end of the year.

[O Really]

It probably works in Tennessee because of the very high number of religious-ly people, but turning a simple way to expand available tag numbers into a religious issue wasn't the smartest way to do it. It's really the same as if they had two series in reverse color -black on white, white on black for example. Or if they had mountains on one and Ryman Auditorium on the other. As it is, however, I can hear the cops reporting "We're behind a blue Taurus, licence plate God 777-SVD traveling west on Angel Road. He's got a bible and is believed to be dangerous." "Copy that, Fred, but I can't help you now. I'm chasing a Heathen, plate SIN-666. Looks like he's headed fer the likkor store."

[Vrede too]

It probably works in Tennessee because of the very high number of religious-ly people, but turning a simple way to expand available tag numbers into a religious issue wasn't the smartest way to do it. It's really the same as if they had two series in reverse color -black on white, white on black for example. Or if they had mountains on one and Ryman Auditorium on the other. As it is, however, I can hear the cops reporting "We're behind a blue Taurus, licence plate God 777-SVD traveling west on Angel Road. He's got a bible and is believed to be dangerous." "Copy that, Fred, but I can't help you now. I'm chasing a Heathen, plate SIN-666. Looks like he's headed fer the likkor store."

It's certainly a set up for cop discrimination, also for discrimination by other govt, businesses and individuals, including the possibility of hostility from other drivers, which could be dangerous.

[billy.pilgrim]

It probably works in Tennessee because of the very high number of religious-ly people, but turning a simple way to expand available tag numbers into a religious issue wasn't the smartest way to do it. It's really the same as if they had two series in reverse color -black on white, white on black for example. Or if they had mountains on one and Ryman Auditorium on the other. As it is, however, I can hear the cops reporting "We're behind a blue Taurus, licence plate God 777-SVD traveling west on Angel Road. He's got a bible and is believed to be dangerous." "Copy that, Fred, but I can't help you now. I'm chasing a Heathen, plate SIN-666. Looks like he's headed fer the likkor store."

It's certainly a set up for cop discrimination, also for discrimination by other govt, businesses and individuals, including the possibility of hostility from other drivers, which could be dangerous.

https://www.licenseplatehate.org/

"Since 2012, the Arizona-based hate group Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF) has received over $1,000,000 from Arizona taxpayers purchasing “In God We Trust” license plates.

ADF is a dangerous, out-of-touch, extremist group that uses religion as a weapon and works to undermine access to reproductive care and the separation between religion and government. And your purchase of this specialty license plate supports their hate."

[O Really]

It's certainly a set up for cop discrimination, also for discrimination by other govt, businesses and individuals, including the possibility of hostility from other drivers, which could be dangerous.

Yeah, that's true. We don't have any cop discrimination or driver hostility now. It would be a shame to cause that.

But sure, you've got a point - why create an unnecessary point of contention when other solutions are equally easy and available? And certainly licence plate discrimination does exist, particularly in small-town speed traps. I'm not convinced the God-noGod would make that much difference, though, especially given that the God plates have been around a long time. I can't really see a cop stopping somebody for speeding in the school zone and letting them off because they have a God plate. Used to be a legend that Florida cops would go easy on you if you had a sticker in the window showing your contribution to their fund, but that didn't work, either. Less likely would be that having a no-God plate would get you harsher treatment.

[Vrede too]

https://www.licenseplatehate.org/

"Since 2012, the Arizona-based hate group Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF) has received over $1,000,000 from Arizona taxpayers purchasing “In God We Trust” license plates.

ADF is a dangerous, out-of-touch, extremist group that uses religion as a weapon and works to undermine access to reproductive care and the separation between religion and government. And your purchase of this specialty license plate supports their hate."

Interesting, thanks. I wonder if christofascist hate groups also make money from the IN and TN plates.

... But sure, you've got a point - why create an unnecessary point of contention when other solutions are equally easy and available? And certainly licence plate discrimination does exist, particularly in small-town speed traps. I'm not convinced the God-noGod would make that much difference, though, especially given that the God plates have been around a long time. I can't really see a cop stopping somebody for speeding in the school zone and letting them off because they have a God plate. Used to be a legend that Florida cops would go easy on you if you had a sticker in the window showing your contribution to their fund, but that didn't work, either. Less likely would be that having a no-God plate would get you harsher treatment.

Because of the letter-number switch the godniks and nongodniks are visible from quite a distance, thus meaning that choices about discrimination, even by it's by a relative few, can be made by cops and others well before a car is stopped or approached. That's a qualitative difference from the small "In God We Trust" lettering. It's hard to imagine any reason for this letter-number switch other than to make the owner's religious choice visible from far away.

[O Really]

It's hard to imagine any reason for this letter-number switch other than to make the owner's religious choice visible from far away.

Somebody's been listening to the conspiracy sirens. Here's one: it doubles the number of plates available to issue and Tennessee can keep a simple letter-number combination instead of having to get off into more complicated schemes. And besides, it's been that way since 2017. The old green mountain-themed plates used the serial formats ABC 123 and 123 ABC to differentiate between the two styles. They've had 5 years to collect horror stories of religious cops or other evilry. Surely somebody must have some to tell.

Again, I don't think it's wise to offer the "God" plate as a standard. I think if offered it should be a specialty plate like the dozens of others, but it doesn't really appear to be malicious on its face.

[GoCubsGo]

It's hard to imagine any reason for this letter-number switch other than to make the owner's religious choice visible from far away.

Somebody's been listening to the conspiracy sirens. Here's one: it doubles the number of plates available to issue and Tennessee can keep a simple letter-number combination instead of having to get off into more complicated schemes. And besides, it's been that way since 2017. The old green mountain-themed plates used the serial formats ABC 123 and 123 ABC to differentiate between the two styles. They've had 5 years to collect horror stories of religious cops or other evilry. Surely somebody must have some to tell.

Again, I don't think it's wise to offer the "God" plate as a standard. I think if offered it should be a specialty plate like the dozens of others, but it doesn't really appear to be malicious on its face.

Because 70,000,000 possible combinations for a state with a population of 7,000,000 wasn't enough?

[O Really]

Because 70,000,000 possible combinations for a state with a population of 7,000,000 wasn't enough?

Oh, man, not you too!
It's not like everybody gets just one number and keeps it forever. But here's an example of using up numbers:
California ran out of standard numbers back around 1990 and put in a new system. Each plate starts with a number, followed by a LLL-NNN combination. They use up all the 1's, then 2's, etc. Each number rendition would be the same as each one of the TN plates ("God" and "NoGod").
So they started issuing the "9" series early this year. In 32 years, they went through all of Tennessee's (newly) available numbers about 4 times. And this is a state where the licence plate stays with the car for as long as it's registered in California.

But anyway, as noted above, it's not a new system for Tennessee, so let's hear the horror stories since 2017.

[Vrede too]

Somebody's been listening to the conspiracy sirens. Here's one: it doubles the number of plates available to issue and Tennessee can keep a simple letter-number combination instead of having to get off into more complicated schemes. And besides, it's been that way since 2017. The old green mountain-themed plates used the serial formats ABC 123 and 123 ABC to differentiate between the two styles. They've had 5 years to collect horror stories of religious cops or other evilry. Surely somebody must have some to tell.

Again, I don't think it's wise to offer the "God" plate as a standard. I think if offered it should be a specialty plate like the dozens of others, but it doesn't really appear to be malicious on its face.

What GoCubsGo says. 7M residents times the average number of vehicles they own is the limit for letter-number combos needed, no matter how many years have elapsed. Nonregistered combos get recycled.

Plus, what you say does not explain why having the letters or numbers first is tied to being a godnik or not. Of course it's fine to use both configurations randomly. "malicious on its face" , but someone decided that godnik vs nogodnik should be visible at a distance greater than the lettering alone would do. Why?

As for "horror stories", that would require cops or others to be admitting why they are discriminating against or for one group. Barring that, it would take scientific statistical analysis, which I doubt has been done and you can bet the chrisofascists in AZ, IN or TN govt aren't going to pay for.

[O Really]

Nevermind that every series of plates has a different numbering system. If you buy a "Blue Ridge" tag in NC it has a different numbering system from the laughable "First in Freedom" plates. But besides that, give me a believable scenario where some TN legislator or DOT administrator says, "I've got an idea - let's divide the state into God-fearing and Heathen to be identified by their licence plates." And then everybody - or enough to pass it - says "yeah, Fred - that's a good idea. Once we know that we'll ... umm, well we can ... umm (charge them more taxes? Round them up and make them listen to a street preacher? Not let them buy a house in any of our neighborhoods? Stone them?)

It's much more believable that mostly church-going bureaucrats just made a bad decision out of cluelessness than with any actual ulterior motive. It's also much more believable that any discrimination, etc. done because of a God or NoGod licence plate is not official and could have been from any number of other reasons, including bumper stickers or a PETA tag.

Devil's defence rests.

[GoCubsGo]

Nevermind that every series of plates has a different numbering system. If you buy a "Blue Ridge" tag in NC it has a different numbering system from the laughable "First in Freedom" plates. But besides that, give me a believable scenario where some TN legislator or DOT administrator says, "I've got an idea - let's divide the state into God-fearing and Heathen to be identified by their licence plates." And then everybody - or enough to pass it - says "yeah, Fred - that's a good idea. Once we know that we'll ... umm, well we can ... umm (charge them more taxes? Round them up and make them listen to a street preacher? Not let them buy a house in any of our neighborhoods? Stone them?)

It's much more believable that mostly church-going bureaucrats just made a bad decision out of cluelessness than with any actual ulterior motive. It's also much more believable that any discrimination, etc. done because of a God or NoGod licence plate is not official and could have been from any number of other reasons, including bumper stickers or a PETA tag.

Devil's defence rests.

This is Tennessee you're talking about.

All bets are on the table.

[O Really]

As for "horror stories", that would require cops or others to be admitting why they are discriminating against or for one group. Barring that, it would take scientific statistical analysis, which I doubt has been done and you can bet the chrisofascists in AZ, IN or TN govt aren't going to pay for.

So nobody has studied to see if the plates have caused issues since 2017, and nobody has filed complaints, lawsuits or even made Tik-Tok allegations as far as we know. But there's boogeymen in the bushes. Sounds like voter fraud to me.

[Vrede too]

... Devil's defence rests.

Or not.

So nobody has studied to see if the plates have caused issues since 2017, and nobody has filed complaints, lawsuits or even made Tik-Tok allegations as far as we know. But there's boogeymen in the bushes. Sounds like voter fraud to me.

Anyone aware and discriminating isn't going to make a TikTok.
We still don't know the originator's intent, whether or not nefarious actions have ensued.
The public didn't notice the association until now, including any theoretical victims.
Now that people know the potential for is increased, as is the potential to recognize that is occurring. We'll see.

ACLU advocate standing by.

[O Really]

The public didn't notice the association until now, including any theoretical victims.

Some might argue that if 7mill people didn't notice the association in 5 years, and nobody has managed any publicity of any complaints, then maybe there isn't any significant abuse. You want to see licence plate discrimination, try driving your Florida plates through Knoxville.

[neoplacebo]

My current TN plate has this format: X33 - 44X and it's the one I've had since 2015. It says "Tennessee" at the top and "Sullivan" (county) along the bottom. The sample plate number I gave is exactly how mine is, just different letters and numbers.